Tips for big strong unmannerly horse

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snooples

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Im helping someone out at the moment with a couple of horses (if anyone saw my fat cob to event hrse thread that was one of them) well I know have another one, who I feel is going to be a lot tougher than the first one. Sorry in advance for the long post but I feel the more info I give the better the advice will be!!

This horse is 17h three quarter irish draught and he knows it! Hes lovely horse to handle on the ground but Im having a bit of trouble with him in the saddle, im about 9 stone myself so not a huge weight on him. He is 13 but has pretty much done nothing.
The first day I rode him we lunged him in the arena first (its been well over a year since he was ridden) and then i rode him around a bit. Rode in a full cheek snaffle and flash, he doesnt open his mouth so i took the flash off.
He was ok for his first day out. Next day I rode him up the hills by himself, i doubt he has ever been ridden out by himself and repeatedly tried to turn around to the horses. His mouth is very hard and steering is non existant expecially to the left. He pretty much tried to jog the whole way back, he didnt take off but I was just able to hold him. When he tries to go he throws his head down and around as if hes going to buck and charge off, luckily he hasnt yet.
I then got the owner to drive him a bit to try and soften up his mouth and rode him today, changed the bit to a french link. Again he kept trying to turn around, he tried to jog quite a bit and I found it tough to hold him.

Im not a fan of putting harsh bits on but i really dont feel comfortable, we are thinking of 3 ring snaffle on the second ring for the next day and possibly putting on draw reins on for some extra control.
Id like to be able to ride him by myself but this just isnt looking possible at the moment as I dont trust him. We are only walking at the moment and I really want to nip this in the bud before his trot work starts.


Does anyone have any good noseband and bit combinations that they found useful for big strong horses like this
Or good training exercises to get him to listen

His aim will more than likely to go showjumping so technically we can go harsher than a snaffle as I doubt he will ever do dressage.
He is a fab jumper I jut need to be able to ride him :D

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/94091423@N04/9703626970/]
Colorado by snooples17, on Flickr[/URL]
 
He was fine in the arena, but then tried to nap back towards the other horses when you took him out - is that right?

I'd carry on with work in the arena, and I'd treat him exactly like any other horse that has never hacked alone - start off small, circular routes, work with another safety horse that you can gradually ride ahead of, and so on - I'd build him up to it slowly so he knows he's going back to them and he has nothing to worry about.

If he's very green and hasn't been ridden for well over a year I'd also keep sessions short and frequent so you don't blow his brain with too many new things at once, or push him too much for his ridden fitness.
 
Where did you ride him today? How long are you riding him for?

Does he only do this on the way home? In the school? All the time?
 
With a big-fronted horse who is down on your hand I'd be inclined to try something like a Kimblewick. I'm not sure a 3-ring gag would necessarily be the best choice as that exerts poll pressure. However, I do also wonder if you are perhaps expecting a little too much of a horse which although 13 in real life sounds to be equivalent to a 4 year old in his experience. Perhaps building up good experiences for him with little steps might be better to improve his trust in his rider.
 
Nice horse :) I would long rein him .. And work in the school ..and then hack in company for now .. You can work on hacking alone at a later date ;) don't rush him as there r no short cuts with horses .. If you do the ground work first the rest will fall into place ..after all he hasn't been ridden for a year and done very little in his life ..so take ur time ;) get his confidence .. Praise him for good work :)
 
Yes he was fine in the arena, it is attached to the stables and to outdoor pens with horses in them so he is right next to everyone the whole time but his steering is still awful in the arena.
Then the next day I rode him up a quite path behind the arena that he would know well as its in a field he would have been turned out in and today I brought him across the road to the field hes been in for the last year and half walked around it once and brought him home.

He swings around maybe twice on the way out then gets very strong when we are heading back, it feels if i even give him an inch of rein he'd be gone!
He would have been in work for a few months last year but was always ridden out with another horse and never by himself!

Also im not on a yard and im the only rider so company wont be easily got for hacks
 
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Build up his confidence in you, it'll take time. As others have said, he's a greenie.
Teach him to yield to the bit as an exercise in itself.
I use clicker training, horse in stable, happy and chilled. Bridle on, reins as if riding him but me on the ground. Ask for head to turn away from you with light consistent pressure on the rein. He may want to follow his head and move into the turn, keep the pressure consistent. Wait till he stops moving. Then,
As soon as he offers the smallest slack in the rein, reward as if he's just done the best ever thing.
Repeat daily both reins till he understands how to yield to the rein, then you can use it when you feel tension building in him.
Just create a bend with a soft hand helps reduce tension, and if you can turn him easily he will be less likely to get away from you.
Takes time, not a quick fix.
 
I'm a big fan of masses of halts of hacks to keep a horse listening and personally I find it better at diffusing a rush home than a steady pull trying to keep the horse in check. Try and keep him occupied - brief halts (with lots of praise when he does), maybe little loops / teeny tiny serpentines if space allows. I wouldn't try and keep him standing for any amount of time - just a brief halt to get him focus on you again.

When I started hacking mine out alone (didn't have any company) I initially got off (controversial!) and led him the last half mile, because I was nervous and didn't want to get caught up in a horrible dash for home, and because his manners on the ground are good enough that I could both keep him occupied (and easily reward halts and backwards steps and anything else I asked for) and give him confidence at a time in the hack where he tended to be more nervous / rushing.

How long are you hacking out for each time?
 
Thanks tea biscuit, thats actually an exercise I use regularly enough when riding my other horses and I find it great. I actually did it today with him for the first time but it was before I tacked him up so obviously not much use when it comes to teach him yielding to the bit! Will definately incoroporate into his daily routine with the bridle now.
 
Theo cat, I halted him a couple of times today and did a few circles when he was being particular bold, he listened but just about!

Iv had someone with me the last few days because If I hadnt Id prob be like you and have jumped off, my safety comes first!

He was ridden for maybe 15 mins both days
 
twiggy2 said:
has he ever actually been backed properly?
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Honestly I dont think he was backed properly. I rode him a few times maybe 8 years ago in the arena after he was supposed to have been backed, I cant remember much about it but I know he threw me off and was a bit of a lunatic. And hes only been ridden on and off since then without too much discipline.

He came in from the field maybe two weeks ago and after I rode him the 2nd time, the owner decided to put him back in the breaking gear and drive him so I might get him to do this a few more times before I ride him again in the arena
 
what is the breaking gear?

if he has never been backed properly then you need to teach him what the aids are, he wont know what you are asking when you use the reins to turn left and right and stop. regardless of age a horse needs to be backed properly if you want it to respond properly to the aids you give.
you are asking a lot of a horse to leave the others alone and hack without at least spending the time to walk out in hand/long rein/teach the aids and build up some trust-especially if the horse has not been asked to do this for a long period of time if ever
 
By breaking gear I pretty much mean he long reined him for the last week.
I only rode him in the fields that he has been turned out in hack was prob the wrong word, he was in work for a few months last year and did some showjumping so hes not totally incapable.
 
Sorry but he isnt ready for what you're asking basically!

He cant have a hard mouth if he's '13 and not done much' and you're saying hes basically barely been ridden - god help him if been chased over showjumps!!!

Get things sorted on the ground first. Lead him out rather than 'chasing' him out on long lines. You need him to take the first step not you when you set off, he needs to move away from you, fore and hind end, and halt softly when asked. Practise taking him away from the other horses.

In the school practise stationary flexions, Id use a full cheek mullen mouth, nothing stronger. He needs to flex in either direction, just take the rein and hold until he gives, the second he gives release and praise. If you dont have steering you have nothing basically! Then you need a one rein stop for emergencies, so flexing but also moving the hind end away from your leg when you ask.

You both need a decent instructor on the ground too tbh.
 
TigerTail said:
Sorry but he isnt ready for what you're asking basically!

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Eh what, Iv ridden him 3 times in walk for 15 mins each time and as I said hes perfectly fine on the ground. We can lead him anywhere and I have someone walking with me on the ground.

I also said in my previous post he was in work and showjumped last year.
 
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But you took him out despite not having steering in the school! Despite not having him listening to you and off your leg. 'Fine' on the ground usually translates to at least basic yielding under saddle which you dont seem to have.....
 
Some good ideas above, especially the half-halts.

I would teach him steering with a PeeWee bit and rather than using a gag with the rein on the 2nd ring, I'd use 2 reins with one on the snaffle ring and the other to come into play if necessary. I actually use a NS Universal, rather than a Dutch gag.
 
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