Tips for living in harmony with big bouncy dogs and a baby

[Lady La La]

So, I've already been given a wealth of help and tips from Cayla, but I thought I'd ask around and see if anyone else can offer up any advice.

I'm not so worried about Bryony, since she mostly just sleeps and doesn't react to baby noises etc, but Tyson is of course a bit mental still.
I've invested in a cot and a doll that cries, and i've started upping the time the dogs are locked in the kitchen for each week so that nothing comes as a huge shock to them.
My main concern is that Tyson will never understand that the baby isn't a toy, and that I will have to keep my dogs locked in the kitchen for all eternity. Clearly that would be rubbish for all of us.
Ideally what I would like is to be able to settle down with baby AND dogs in one room and not have chaos.

At the moment every time the fake baby cries Tyson howls and howls and lord knows thats going to be a pain in the ass when theres a newborn in the house

 

[galaxy]

Have you got any friends with small children that you can invite round? Obv keep him contained if you're concerned but the more exposure the better.

 

[Lady La La]

Have you got any friends with small children that you can invite round? Obv keep him contained if you're concerned but the more exposure the better.

I do, but he would definitely have to be in his cage, he can barely behave himself when adults come to visit (he nearly sent my mum flying the other day, just trying to say hello to her) and if he were to jump all over a kid (which he would, out of the excitement of visitors if nothing else) he would probably cause some real damage.

Would putting him in his cage and having some 'real' children around be beneficial? I'll certainly give it a go if it will help.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Congrats!

Right, time to get your tough mammy head on again, you've done it before so you can do it again. He's feck-acting and ram-raiding visitors because he has been allowed to.

He needs to learn how to chill out and lie down in a certain point and have an 'off' switch. I get the impression he has been too 'free' and he is allowed to get up and move about where he likes? This may sound overly controlling but my own youngster used to do this and was a real fidgety bum - this translates to the outside world - well, if mum tells me to lie on the mat, but I get up and I don't get corrected, then if she tells me something in the park, and I don't do it, that's OK, because I don't get corrected in the house, do I? - see the link? You start all these things in the home and it reverberates to everywhere else.

So now, instead of my fella being a loony in the house like a whirling dervish everytime someone gets up - morning - out of crate, lie on the mat while I get my stuff, OK, out to the car, walk. Back from walk, into crate. Time for work, onto mat, calm down, right, out to kennel.
Evening - out from kennel for walk/training, back into the house, on your mat, stay there for the evening and have a snooze, bedtime, into crate. If he is nice and quiet I may allow him to come and lie under my feet, but any time he breaks the position, no, back on the mat (initially a bit of food there for lying down in the correct position)

If it takes a few weeks of CONSTANTLY getting up and putting him back in a spot (like a mat or a bed), then do it. Only keep him there for short periods initially then release and reward. You can withold food and only feed him on that spot so there is a lot of positive association. Don't chase him round or make it a conflict.
Put a hand line on his collar so you can physically put him there or in the beginning you can use a playpen or something to physically keep him there.

The idea is that visitors can come and you can say 'on your mat' etc and that will be where he goes. You and the bloke NEED to be consistent with this. If you let him away once, 'oh alright then, you can mooch about, oh alright then, cuddles' then you'll undo all the good work. There's a baby in the equation now, no messing about.

 

[galaxy]

I am far from an expert, but I would say you need to find a way to expose him and get him used to this ASAP. If he won't settle in his crate, how about keeping him on a lead at your side maybe with a chew to occupy him? CC's advise is great.

 

[Lady La La]

Congrats!

Thanks

There's a baby in the equation now, no messing about.

I realise this, and you're very, very right. Appreciate the advice, as always!

He is allowed to go where he wants in the house at the moment, because most of the time he is quiet and nice so we tend to let him do what he wants when he is quiet and nice. He's better than he used to be though, i'll say off the sofa and he'll get straight off when he's told.

Should we arrange to have visitors over most days then, so we can practice controlling his behavior when the door knocks? Bryony is just as bad when the door knocks to be fair, she barks and rushes to the door too, she just doesn't leap up like he does. B is really good at on your bed, and she goes there as soon as you tell her, and stays put too... unless the door knocks, and then all hell breaks lose!

EDITED - Sorry I forgot to say the reason im worried about the door knocking is that there will be a lot of it when the baby is born, visitors etc. Not just Tyson howling when the baby cries etc.

 

[CorvusCorax]

OK, well I'd definitely stop him having freedom of the house now as that will have to stop when baby arrives.

You'll obviously need to fix the door knocking thing too. But you'll need to have a separate plan for that in your head to suit both dogs before you start inviting people to knock the door. You could factor in a 'quiet' command so that yes, they can bark when the door goes but when you give a command they have to STFU and go to their beds.

Sorry if it seems really blunt but better to get firm now than to have to get rid if he oversteps the mark later x

 

[Lady La La]

OK, well I'd definitely stop him having freedom of the house now as that will have to stop when baby arrives.

You'll obviously need to fix the door knocking thing too. But you'll need to have a separate plan for that in your head to suit both dogs before you start inviting people to knock the door. You could factor in a 'quiet' command so that yes, they can bark when the door goes but when you give a command they have to STFU and go to their beds.

Sorry if it seems really blunt but better to get firm now than to have to get rid if he oversteps the mark later x

Nope, blunt is good. In approximately 6 months time life is going to get VERY hard and I want to make sure the dogs aren't adding to that stress, or being stressed themselves.

The problem is, I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell I will ever be able to teach Tyson a quiet command, no matter how hard I try. I know that sounds really stupid, but I know my dog, and my limitations as a 'trainer' and I know that when he gets excited he loses the ability to even listen. It all goes out the window.
I wonder if maybe its best to have a little google and see if theres a trainer that could come to our house and work with the dogs with us. Tyson is great at training and away from the house, but things inside our own house are different and 3 years is a long time for a dog to suddenly be asked to start changing his habits of a lifetime. I definitely think I will struggle with this.

 

[lexiedhb]

Start with the mat thing- dont introduce the door to quickly until he will solidly stay on a mat. Then add you or partner ringing the bell etc and build up. I taught dex to sit on a mat whilst we were eating- tis a ROYAL pain in the ass having to put said dog back on the mat every 4 secs at first but it goes in eventually!

 

[Lady La La]

Start with the mat thing- dont introduce the door to quickly until he will solidly stay on a mat. Then add you or partner ringing the bell etc and build up. I taught dex to sit on a mat whilst we were eating- tis a ROYAL pain in the ass having to put said dog back on the mat every 4 secs at first but it goes in eventually!

Ok, will start on mat, and see where we are a little later down the line.

Thanks for your help guys

 

[TarrSteps]

One of mine gets wound up about people coming to the door and wildly over excited when it's a family member. She knows 'go to your mat' and it's made a real difference. She's also on the mat at dinner time. I'd say she's less stressed by having that structure than if we tried to teach her specifically not to jump up etc, in part because we have a tiny hall way and it's not enough room for someone coming in plus someone to handle the dog. When she was still learning she did bang our other dog and send him to the out of hours vet for stitches, which confirmed the necessity of getting the behaviour under control.

I'll confess the other dog knows 'get on your sofa' but hey ho, it's a tiny flat and at least he's out from underfoot.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The problem is, I'm pretty sure there is no way in hell I will ever be able to teach Tyson a quiet command, no matter how hard I try. I know that sounds really stupid, but I know my dog, and my limitations as a 'trainer' and I know that when he gets excited he loses the ability to even listen. It all goes out the window.

OK so you're being honest - habits form when they are allowed to be formed - but don't rule it out altogether. I've got a seriously noisy dog and I know the biggest problem is me...he makes noise...I get stressed and frustrated...he loads off that...he gets noisier. Even this weekend, even though I have been working with this dog since last spring, the penny dropped when someone explained it to me, I've been shouting 'SIT!' 'QUIET!' 'OUT' - it's just noise on top of noise and I was driving him higher - so when I said 'siiiiiit' 'quieeeet' 'ouuuut' in a firm but normal voice - he could actually hear me and he actually listened. Even if you start rewarding the slightest little pause in the noise, it's a start.
He sounds like a self-rewarder too - making noise is probably enjoyable/a stress reliever for him. So make it less enjoyable for him in some way and make being quiet the enjoyable thing, if there's a way you think that might happen.

 

[lexiedhb]

I cant utter a word if Dex starts barking in the car- if i do its all over and he wont STFU until we get where we are going- drives me mad!

 

[Lady La La]

One of mine gets wound up about people coming to the door and wildly over excited when it's a family member. She knows 'go to your mat' and it's made a real difference. She's also on the mat at dinner time. I'd say she's less stressed by having that structure than if we tried to teach her specifically not to jump up etc, in part because we have a tiny hall way and it's not enough room for someone coming in plus someone to handle the dog. When she was still learning she did bang our other dog and send him to the out of hours vet for stitches, which confirmed the necessity of getting the behaviour under control.

I'll confess the other dog knows 'get on your sofa' but hey ho, it's a tiny flat and at least he's out from underfoot.

Would 'in your cage' be as good as on your mat? He already knows in your cage, so this could be something to build on? We shut him in there now when the door knocks (which I know is a get out clause because hes not actually learning self control) and even though eh cant jump up, he still howls like a bloody banshee so that nobody can hear each other to speak!

OK so you're being honest - habits form when they are allowed to be formed - but don't rule it out altogether. I've got a seriously noisy dog and I know the biggest problem is me...he makes noise...I get stressed and frustrated...he loads off that...he gets noisier. Even this weekend, even though I have been working with this dog since last spring, the penny dropped when someone explained it to me, I've been shouting 'SIT!' 'QUIET!' 'OUT' - it's just noise on top of noise and I was driving him higher - so when I said 'siiiiiit' 'quieeeet' 'ouuuut' in a firm but normal voice - he could actually hear me and he actually listened. Even if you start rewarding the slightest little pause in the noise, it's a start.
He sounds like a self-rewarder too - making noise is probably enjoyable/a stress reliever for him. So make it less enjoyable for him in some way and make being quiet the enjoyable thing, if there's a way you think that might happen.

Yeah I do try not to shout at him, but I do lose patience, especially when he sets off Bryony and wakes up Scott when he's been on nights.
He loves to make noise, thats pretty easy to tell but it interesting that when he stayed with Cayla he wasn't very vocal I don't think - I think he felt out of his comfort zone, and my house (his house) is definitely somewhere that he thinks is his domain.
I will start working on mat, and quiet and maybe take some videos to see how I'm getting on. I don't think I'll rule out getting a trainer to come in and help us either, these are problems we've had with Tyson since day dot, but they have been easy to ignore up until now as visitors were infrequent and we're currently all getting 8 hours of kip a night so a little bit of disturbance here and there was never too much of an issue Obviously very soon it will be, and 6 months isn't all that long to fix it!

 

[CAYLA]

OK, I got the SoS and rushed here but Im just about to let someone in to collect a mutt so I shall return Im not ignoring you.

OK here. Remember the whole time you and Scott sipped tea and scoffed biscuits and he had not seen you for like 5 weeks (and you kept chekcing to see what he was doing) as you could not belive he was just lying in my kitchen when the door was wide open for him to come in (even though my dogs where in being fussed by you)

AND
Remember on my patio when he first saw you, he proceeded to jump and scratch you freshy sun burnt arms and I said (IGNORE) him, and in all of 1 minute he lay flat out on my patio and we talked un interrupted for along time

AND remember I recalled him off the rabbit

It can be done, but you have to mean it and not " give in or use excuses"

AND remember me showing you pictures of him lying in reception at my work whilst i left him to actually work in a gigantic building (I had to teach him that) as at fist he tried to follow me (which at work he cant do) SO IT CAN BE DONE

You need to be firmer and consistent for sure (I shall be back) and if need be I shall come and stay with you b4 baby La La is born and bray it into you

 

[Lady La La]

and if need be I shall come and stay with you b4 baby La La is born and bray it into you

This. Please do this. SO MUCH OF THIS.
I will cook you beautiful dinners and and and cater to your every need (when I am not barfing)

...and yes, I remember all that stuff. I remind Tyson of it daily, but he was like a different dog in your house. I know thats because of how you trained him to be, and that me and Scott are crapola at this sort of thing, but like CC says, no messing around now there's a baby a comin'.
Let it be said though, that even shouting at him in a geordie accent no longer does the trick these days

 

[Star_Chaser]

I've sent you details for a lady in Essex that we used she really is excellent.

This is what I did when I had my baby at time I had 5 large breed dogs and three spaniels none of whom had lived with children:

Dog Gates: the lindam tall dog gates are great I put them up on all my doors and the entrance to the stairs. Dogs have to wait to go through rather than just charging around like loonies and it helps to keep the dogs and babies apart when you need to, I practised doing stuff like cleaning and having dinner etc. I have a no pets upstairs rule but have one at the top as well to stop crawler and toddler falling down the stairs.

Crates: Brought over sized crates and did the crate training so that when baby or the dogs need a time out especially at crawling stage the option is there even if you don't use it.

Dog Walker: First 6 weeks I had a dog walker booked who came so that I didn't have to walk around (c-section) really helps if the weather is pants and your tired.

Socialising: I did go to a lot of baby/toddler parties in the park, got friends to let me walk with them in their buggies (brought a buggy to walk dogs with so they got used to it although never used it my baby bjorn is ideal especially with the cover).

Kennelled: I know its not popular and some say to have the dogs in the house when baby comes home but first two weeks was a nightmare of people coming and going baby crying, me stressed out and tired etc etc not having the dogs to worry about as well during all that was bliss. I brought them back home when things had settled and they had a calm household to come home to with me having hang of doing the baby.

Made the hard decision: One of my dogs was elderly hated children and would make a bee line for them to bite, easy to deal with when you single and no option of kids but much as I didn't want to rehome him I did privately with an older member of my family. Hes happy I still get to see him and the bonus is my uncle has company. It wasn't easy but was best for all of us.

House rules/training: No dogs on sofas, no pets upstairs, toys were removed and leave training started, leave training for food (one of mine is a real thief), heel work brushed up, brought halti's, basic brush up of all my basic training.

Some dogs its a total breeze my eldest was fabulous and became a nanny to my son but one of my younger dogs still has to be watched carefully. The gates go as the dogs settle and toddler phase finishes. You can freecycle for dog and baby gates they always seem to come up.

Good luck.

 

[Star_Chaser]

OK, I got the SoS and rushed here but Im just about to let someone in to collect a mutt so I shall return Im not ignoring you.

OK here. Remember the whole time you and Scott sipped tea and scoffed biscuits and he had not seen you for like 5 weeks (and you kept chekcing to see what he was doing) as you could not belive he was just lying in my kitchen when the door was wide open for him to come in (even though my dogs where in being fussed by you)

AND
Remember on my patio when he first saw you, he proceeded to jump and scratch you freshy sun burnt arms and I said (IGNORE) him, and in all of 1 minute he lay flat out on my patio and we talked un interrupted for along time

AND remember I recalled him off the rabbit

It can be done, but you have to mean it and not " give in or use excuses"

AND remember me showing you pictures of him lying in reception at my work whilst i left him to actually work in a gigantic building (I had to teach him that) as at fist he tried to follow me (which at work he cant do) SO IT CAN BE DONE

You need to be firmer and consistent for sure (I shall be back) and if need be I shall come and stay with you b4 baby La La is born and bray it into you

With an offer like that I'd be biting hand off to have it Think all new mums need a dog nanny as well as a baby one!

 

[Star_Chaser]

oooo practise poo picking with dolly in baby sling if your going to use one... first time I did it we nearly had a bit of an accident It wasn't on my list of things to do

 

[CorvusCorax]

And I can be your virtual training buddy, I have a tonne of homework from the weekend (for me, not the dog, trainer said it was me who turned the dog into a loony - well, he used something less politically corrrect ) so PM or FB me any time.

My dog used to work me - he did something, I reacted. Other way around - you do something, dog reacts, it's your house, you won't be letting Little La La run rings around you, so don't let the dog either. Great advice from HL - dogs will gamble with what they can and can't get away with, don't give him the opportunity to gamble, make it very clear for him what he can and can't do.

 

[Lady La La]

With an offer like that I'd be biting hand off to have it Think all new mums need a dog nanny as well as a baby one!

Thank you for your PM, as I said I'm very grateful, its always better to use people that have been recommended. Liekwise thanks for your tips, I will try and implement as much of it as I can.

I'm hoping now that she's offered, if I keep banging on at her, she will eventually come for a little holiday to Essex for a weekend
I told a close friend of mine who uses this forum that I was pregnant way before I announced it to the rest of the world, and I admitted I was concerned about the dogs. The first thing she said was 'You'd better tell Cayla then and see what she can do' lol

 

[Lady La La]

so PM or FB me any time.

So pretty much like I usually do when I'm having a crisis then

...thank you x

My dog used to work me - he did something, I reacted. Other way around - you do something, dog reacts, it's your house, you won't be letting Little La La run rings around you, so don't let the dog either. Great advice from HL - dogs will gamble with what they can and can't get away with, don't give him the opportunity to gamble, make it very clear for him what he can and can't do.

I hear you, loud and clear and it makes total sense. Just need a bit of help getting there again, I've let things slide since his little trip to Newcastle 18 months ago and I don't doubt I'll need help getting back on track. Like you say, he works me and he does it well.

 

[CAYLA]

Honestly if you are worried I will come to you, a crash course will do you good, we will invite the village round to meet your fake plastic dolly and Tye and I will teach you (as this is whats needed) how to "have faith" and not be pathetic in your handling LMFAO....I can say that (it's you)

I agree with Horse Loaner.

As we discussed also (new rules) implimented now b4 baby comes (to many people leave it to late)
Has the kennel gone? ain't it a field shelter now (you may need another)
And indeed as suggested and as we discussed no stairs, on beds, time out now leading up to baby arrival.
You will indeed get control if you really want it (and some respect) but stop worrying about excluding the dogs, a baby is coming and you will not have no where near enough time to share in the beginning (the dogs will live)

If you are worried re door going then practice now, when people come and door goes, why not take him by the collar and out to the kitchen and give him a reward (get some ready stuffed kongs) and close the door on him, let him in and if he proceeds to jump like a looney (ask folk to ignore) and remove him back to the kitchen and close the door and repeat for as many times as it takes till he associates coming in means (calm). I never did this, I just demanded he went to the area using a hand signal and walking him backwards till he was in the spot (then commanded he lay down) however I know you are a softie so the nicey nicey way may be better.
Once he gets this, then leave the door open so he can see the visitors but with the baby gate in place. If he began to whale I would be there in a shot and again a command and hand signal to the bed (wherever I wanted him to retreat) till he learns to regard the command (as now he regards you NIL) because you are not at a guess being consistant.

I may even demand you video some guests coming in and do as you would normally so I can see what happening, web cam or summit

Your main worries are his interest in a new baby?
People coming in and him acting like a deranged wild pony and you having to handle him? so we shall work through both now?

Also your worry was he was at the crawling baby doll in a split second (he would, it looks like fun, it's moving, but in reality baby will be with you/in your arms in your space and you control that space and how close he gets, baby wont be on floor with you looking down and tye bouncing on it like tigger when baby is on floor then he will be having his time out (which will be worked on from now till then)

I will come though, we have plenty of time. I hope he still walks lovely too or I will batter you

 

[Lady La La]

I will come though, we have plenty of time. I hope he still walks lovely too or I will batter you

You're going to batter me. So hard.

I would describe him as not as bad as before you took him, but not as good as when he left you. I would say thats a pretty honest description

If you will definitely come, that would make me very happy. Maybe in the new year after Christmas or something? (Pretty please )
I think you're right about a crash course in not being a soft t*at being useful for me

I will get you some videos of door knocking, thats no problem.
So when people knock and the dogs go mad, do I put them both in the kitchen and feed them something nice? (while they are barking their heads off?)
I swear to god, no amount of hand signals or stern voices get that dog to stop making noise when I do them, but I will keep trying.
Should I have a mat in the kitchen to put him 'on his mat' when the door knocks?

 

[CAYLA]

You're going to batter me. So hard.

I would describe him as not as bad as before you took him, but not as good as when he left you. I would say thats a pretty honest description

If you will definitely come, that would make me very happy. Maybe in the new year after Christmas or something? (Pretty please )
I think you're right about a crash course in not being a soft t*at being useful for me

I will get you some videos of door knocking, thats no problem.
So when people knock and the dogs go mad, do I put them both in the kitchen and feed them something nice? (while they are barking their heads off?)
I swear to god, no amount of hand signals or stern voices get that dog to stop making noise when I do them, but I will keep trying.
Should I have a mat in the kitchen to put him 'on his mat' when the door knocks?

The kitchen would do for me (no need for matt) knock at the door "Right OUT" point to kitchen, if ignored (lead to kitchen) by all means chuck some kongs down (if they dont distract enough) and they keep barking (and of course you cannot ignore) then indeed with me the door opens like lightening and a stern vocal is given to retreat to wherever it is I want them, bed/matt? close door swiflty, and if barking behind then again vocal and "bed" "down" command! and when silence prevails they can enter the room (if excitement) begins even when ignored, and ignoring means no humans hands waving about, laughing, eye contact, it means act like they dont exist (its your job) then to get them by the collar and haul them back out (not the guest) for as many times as it takes foe them to associate the excitement means (OUT) seriously if done right it should work nicely to the point when the door goes the dogs just slink off as they know the routine (I know, easy for me to say), so I wont (not again anyways) this is you and your's.
I will come (I know how worried you are) I take it I can do the flight thing and not the train

If you where not preggers I would batter you I had the wolfey walking like he was not even there I also had a scrap with a wifey when she let her idiot husky jump on him when I had him ignore it (she still wont pass me in the field) A laughs

 

[Lady La La]

Its ok you can batter Scott, he walks him mostly these days and he is most definitely not pregnant

Oh & the dog kennel never actually made it into a field shelter so it is curreny in the garden in bits. It will hopefully be resurected soon...

I will try and implement what you have said & see how we get on.

Re the flight thing, I'm prettu sure you can fly to Stanstead from your neck of the woods but tbh I'd be happy to road trip it up to you & give you a lift if it comes to it. Not that I am in any way desperate for your help. At all.
(and when I say *I* will drive, read Scott will drive & I will snooze...)

 

[CAYLA]

It's ok a flight will do I owe a few visits to people on here, I shall have to get them done next year (although they where probably relived I never came). Im sure they know who they are and apologies if I seem ignornat (I have more time in my life now) and I hope it stays that way.

 

[Fools Motto]

Like him or not, and if you want to see how to do some things then watch Ceasar Milan on YouTube...

Or Victoria Stilwell?? In my opinion they both have very good tips.

 

[Lady La La]

Good, Scott will be relieved

I'll bug you about this in the new year then
In the mean time, I'll get vids...

 

[CAYLA]

Like him or not, and if you want to see how to do some things then watch Ceasar Milan on YouTube...

Or Victoria Stilwell?? In my opinion they both have very good tips.

Very true, there are some very good baby n dogs ones to as in programmes (CM) that is