Tips on getting a horse to have its feet picked out please!

[BeachBreaker]

As I'm sure some of you have read, my boy has just come back from the vets after a severe case of thrush and an abscess. The reason that he went away for treatment in the first place was that he became very distressed about his feet and wouldn't let me anywhere near them to carry out treatment. He was therefore sedated every time anything was done with them. He is now home and has been given the all clear but still refuses to let me anywhere near his feet. I understand that he has been poked and prodded for weeks now but he hasn't had his feet picked out since Friday and I'm getting concerned. I have tried picking them up when he was sedated to be turned out but he has a habit of fighting the sedative and it really made no difference. Since he has been back, I have been picking one foot up every time I go into the stable and just not doing anything with it, hoping he would settle but he is just continuing to lash out. I am reluctant to bribe him with food as I don't want him to start nipping or being bolshy. I groom him daily and he has no problem at all with me brushing his legs and touching his hooves, it is simply picking them up which he won't tolerate. Does anyone have any tips as to how I might be able to retrain him to have his feet picked out. I have never had a problem with him before and it's really sad that he's so worried about it.

 

[Wagtail]

You could try clicker training as then the horse only associates treats with the sound of the clicker, so will not nip or mug you.

 

[be positive]

You must get round this issue or he will be back to getting thrush again, I would get someone to help you holding his head while you pick up the foot, possibly outside if the stable is the place he has memories of bad times. As he picks the foot up they should reward him with a treat and a pat, if he is really upset he needs something to make it nice again and there is no reason that he should become bolshy from a few treats while resolving this problem, his hoof care is more important than the fact that he may become a bit nippy.
If there is noone to help still treat him as soon as he has had the foot picked up, clicker training may help and that is based on reward.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I agree, there are few cases where treating is appropriate but this is one of the few.

Horse is unlikely to become nippy but even if they did, better that than a horse with such severe foot problems they have to be PTS. Better a nippy horse than no horse.

But really, dont worry too much, clicker can reduce the likelihood as well.

Also when you pick up hoof and horse goes to take it away, make sure you keep it up that little bit longer so it is your decision when it is put down not theirs.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Currently he associates offering his feet to you with pain and now the reason for the pain has gone, you can replace the association with pleasure.
Make this your focus for the week over other jobs. Work where he's happiest, stable or yard. Don't tie him up but ask someone to hold him loosely so he can move away if he needs to. If he moves, quietly return him to the orginal spot. Front feet are usually easier for him to cope with, so start with fronts. Run your hand down his leg and pick up the foot. Do whatever he can cope with, handle the foot all over with your hand, or use the hoof pick for a single stroke. Replace the foot on the ground, praise and give a treat. If he snatches his foot away, run your hand down his leg and repeat until he allows you to put the foot down.
He'll quickly associate the treat with offering the foot. If treats only appear when he feet are done, picking his feet out will be a good thing to do now his feet no longer hurt. Then you'll be able to get back to actually getting the debris out as before he had thrush. Don't give the treat if he snatches though. Fingers crossed.

 

[onlineforequine]

You must get round this issue or he will be back to getting thrush again, I would get someone to help you holding his head while you pick up the foot, possibly outside if the stable is the place he has memories of bad times. As he picks the foot up they should reward him with a treat and a pat, if he is really upset he needs something to make it nice again and there is no reason that he should become bolshy from a few treats while resolving this problem, his hoof care is more important than the fact that he may become a bit nippy.
If there is noone to help still treat him as soon as he has had the foot picked up, clicker training may help and that is based on reward.

I agree, get another person to work at the head end; get the handler to ask the horse to lift and lower the head (lowering will decrease his heart rate helping him to relax) and this activity will help him to focus on work not you picking his feet.

Then repetition, repetition, repetition! I would always reward with a scratch as this too helps to lower heart rate.

 

[BeachBreaker]

Thanks everyone. Obviously, I realise that it is a problem which is why I have posted this thread. I don't want people to think I am completely clueless but he is young, very bouncy and athletic at the best of times and VERY quick with his legs. I try my utmost to only allow him to put his foot down when I say but 500kg horse V 5ft7 girl = fail.

I agree that starting with his front feet is the best thing, back feet are very fast and I have had a few fly past my face over the last few days.

I had thought about trying some clicker training. I did some with him last year for an assignment at uni and he took to it quite well.

It would be really handy if I always had someone with me to hold him as I think my biggest problem is the fact that he launches himself around the stable when he doesn't like something but the problem is that this is obviously going to be an ongoing battle and I just don't have anyone that can help me everyday. Once I've touched his leg once he's very wary and knows exactly what I'm going to do and it's very difficult to get near him again. I do love having a fancy WB but he is extremely sensitive!

Can I also just mention the fact that his stable is always kept immaculate and he is looked after very well, thrush came out of nowhere and I have had some not very nice comments from vets, other people who seem to immediately think that thrush = dirty stable, poorly kept horse. Definitely not the case and another reason why I really need to tackle this problem.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[sandi_84]

Sorry to hear your lad had sore feet
I understand this is probably preaching to the converted but this is what I did with mine:
My boy didn't really understand what I was asking when I started picking out his feet and he found it really stressfull, getting himself all sweaty about it. I spent loads of time stroking his legs one by one (in the order the farrier would do them) until he would let me stroke from his shoulder to his hooves without moving away or flicking them out (in the case of back feet) with loads of verbal praise and pats for doing well and just a "no" if he wasn't doing what I wanted him to do. I then started to up the challenge by picking his feet up for a few seconds at a time - longer if he fidgeted, till he stood still - and again praise and pats for getting it right.
Eventually we moved up another gear to picking out which I would do as quickly as I could - loads of pats and praise - until we've got to the point where I can do it at my normal pace and he no longer gets stressed and sweaty
I know my case is different from yours in that my boy wouldn't jump about or anything and I know you need something done fairly quickly in case the thrush comes back but don't worry, he will come round when he realises you won't hurt him. I agree that having someone hold his head would be ideal but failing that I'm afraid you will just have to tie him up for safetys sake. Also a wee treat for doing well with hoof picking should be fine and shouldn't result in nipping.
Good luck! Hope everything works out for you and your boy

 

[BeachBreaker]

Thanks Sandi...it sounds like you took the approach that I thought I would but it's just taking far too long and I am desperate to have a look at his frogs and just keep an eye on things. Luckily the vets had him shod whilst under sedation. He's not fantastic with the farrier anyway (not bothered about his feet but a little bit smoke shy) so I am desperate to get it properly sorted before his next shoeing. I would like to think that all my grooming and patting and stroking is making a difference but to be honest, I think he's in such a tizz about it that it really isn't!

 

[NOISYGIRL]

You could do what the old owners of my first pony did, kick him in the fetlock ! yes its true ! wouldn't recommend that approch myself

Its difficult because your's prob thinks its going to hurt, can you sort of lean on him, push him slightly to get the wieght off the one you're trying to pick up ?

 

[ReggiePerrin]

At the dealers yard I bought Barney, they had a great tool for helping educate the youngsters about feet picking. She had a stuffed glove tied to the end of a broom handle. that way she could safely run it up and down their legs without getting in the way and getting kicked! She used to run it up and down and tickle the fetlocks with it which usually resulted in them picking up.

Hope you get it sorted soon, it's always so stressful when they don't realise you're trying to help them.

 

[sandi_84]

Thanks Sandi...it sounds like you took the approach that I thought I would but it's just taking far too long and I am desperate to have a look at his frogs and just keep an eye on things. Luckily the vets had him shod whilst under sedation. He's not fantastic with the farrier anyway (not bothered about his feet but a little bit smoke shy) so I am desperate to get it properly sorted before his next shoeing. I would like to think that all my grooming and patting and stroking is making a difference but to be honest, I think he's in such a tizz about it that it really isn't!

Aye sorry it's not very helpful when you need to see to them now really but in the long run it'll definately help. Just keep plugging away and eventually it'll click for him that what you are doing isn't actually sore and he gets lots of lovely attention afterwards
In the meantime can you give him a small amount of sedative every few days just so you can look and pick out? Don't know if that's feasible at all, I know in an ideal world you'd want to be picking out at least once a day if not more but if it's a major issue it could help?
Wish I had better advice to offer

 

[BeachBreaker]

Well I'm sure you'll all be pleased to know, I managed to pick out his front feet this afternoon on my own and they look fantastic. It took a bit of carrot persuasion an some brute strength on my part but he let me do it. Back feet are a different story, I didn't have anyone with me so thought I would wait until my OH can stand at the front end with a bribe!

 

[sandi_84]

Well I'm sure you'll all be pleased to know, I managed to pick out his front feet this afternoon on my own and they look fantastic. It took a bit of carrot persuasion an some brute strength on my part but he let me do it. Back feet are a different story, I didn't have anyone with me so thought I would wait until my OH can stand at the front end with a bribe!

Yeay! Well done you! Carrot bribery sounds like the way to go then

 

[Kat]

My mare was a pain with her feet when we got her but bribery with food really worked. I found that I could treat her whilst holding a foreleg quite easily and if I did this it avoided her snatching the foot because she associated the treat with putting her foot down. Lots of fuss too.

Hind feet are more difficult if you don't have a helper.

I picked her feet up lots, and made a fuss when she did it well and she is generally fine now although still a bit naughty for the farrier.

Word of warning, be really careful doing the fronts with the horse tied, there is a risk that if he tries to get away he will get a leg over the rope so make sure you have a really easily broken tie or untie the rope and just loop it through.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

I've just gone through a similar thing with my VERY tall and leggy filly...16.1....and most of it on my own, not easy is it? And for the same reasons, difficult with feet, subsequently developed a hoof abcsess that really needed to be treated. OMG the hours I spent attempting to poultice, only see the carefully prepared dressing go flying over the stable roof. And nearly me flying with it, aaargh, I'd really been getting somewhere with her feet before that.

So, back to square one now the abcess has cleared. I don't like using treats but needs must and we're really getting there now. She's a bright girl and has quickly sussed that mugging me gets her nowhere (that was my biggest worry). In fact from a few days ago she actually picks up her foot and offers it to me if bend down near it. This is her fronts, still got to work on the hinds (gulp!!).

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Ooops...tips...this is what I do. Ask for foot to be lifted, tapped with hoof pick and put down again without snatching away. Treat. Progress from there to hoof being picked out, in stages. Ignore, but don't punish, all snatching, moving away and attempted mugging and just stick to rewarding with a small treat for the right response. Hope this helps..

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Good news BB. Glad his feet are looking good too, that must be quite a relief.

 

[BeachBreaker]

I've just gone through a similar thing with my VERY tall and leggy filly...16.1....and most of it on my own, not easy is it? And for the same reasons, difficult with feet, subsequently developed a hoof abcsess that really needed to be treated. OMG the hours I spent attempting to poultice, only see the carefully prepared dressing go flying over the stable roof. And nearly me flying with it, aaargh, I'd really been getting somewhere with her feet before that.

So, back to square one now the abcess has cleared. I don't like using treats but needs must and we're really getting there now. She's a bright girl and has quickly sussed that mugging me gets her nowhere (that was my biggest worry). In fact from a few days ago she actually picks up her foot and offers it to me if bend down near it. This is her fronts, still got to work on the hinds (gulp!!).

Sounds very similar! Prior to the vets, he has always been fine with his feet and as you say even offered them. Never had any major issues with the farrier either. He has obviously now just associated them being picked up with pain which is totally understandable. Thanks for the tips, it seems that progressive training with a little reward here and there is the best way to go. I don't want him to start thinking that he gets a treat every time he picks one up! We managed to do quite well with the fronts today and I got a good look and it seems like everything has cleared up well, but same as you, hinds are still another matter. He's so violent when he kicks out that it's just not safe when I'm on my own, which is also a lot of the time. Good luck with your mare, let me know if you find any more golden tips and I shall do the same

 

[BeachBreaker]

Good news BB. Glad his feet are looking good too, that must be quite a relief.

Thanks horserider! So relieved! And they look fab so hopefully the back ones are the same. If he stops flailing them round for long enough maybe I'll get a peek! At least today has given me some piece of mind!

 

[Foxhunter49]

You can try the hand on a pole it works well, if he lashes out make sure the 'hand' remains touching his other leg.

Something else I would do is to pass a long soft rope around his pastern, the rope needs to be long enough that you can stand by his shoulder. Ask him to lift his foot forward and if he does let it down and reward. If he kicks hang on (wear gloves) and immediately ask again. This way, he kicks you continue to pull forward, he lifts, gets reward.
Gradually increase the time you ask him to hold it forward and when he does so without trying to pull away you can go down the rope and hold the foot with your hands and gradually move it back to where you can pick it out.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Sounds very similar! Prior to the vets, he has always been fine with his feet and as you say even offered them. Never had any major issues with the farrier either. He has obviously now just associated them being picked up with pain which is totally understandable. Thanks for the tips, it seems that progressive training with a little reward here and there is the best way to go. I don't want him to start thinking that he gets a treat every time he picks one up! We managed to do quite well with the fronts today and I got a good look and it seems like everything has cleared up well, but same as you, hinds are still another matter. He's so violent when he kicks out that it's just not safe when I'm on my own, which is also a lot of the time. Good luck with your mare, let me know if you find any more golden tips and I shall do the same

Cheers BB. The hinds, bit of a shock when they come whirling out! When I very first started working on her feet she perfected the art of trying to cow kick me with a hind while I was holding up the front on the same side....if that makes sense....and she's got long legs. Quite glad I remembered to wear my hat and was padded up, it was a bit of a close thing every time.
Foxhunter, yep, that's how I started to handle her front feet initially, stuffed glove on stick, worked a treat. She'll sort of tolerate hand on stick on her hinds up to a point, but then she lashes out. Now just need to find a way to get the soft rope around her hind pasterns without getting booted into the next county...

 

[PandorasJar]

Mine was jumpy with her feet so I started feeding chunks of carrot infront of each hoof, then on each hoof, then run my hand down the leg etc. If she jumped I took a step back and then did it again. I never treated backwards if she was having a bad day I perservered so she had to work harder for it each time and now is a lot easierto work with.

I think treating is brilliant if done correctly. Just never treat for going backwards or on their terms! I never treat with grabbing etc

Pan

 

[PandorasJar]

Sorry the carrot was in my hand the whole time so she had to accept the contact to get the treat!

Pan

 

[Nudibranch]

A good tip from my trimmer which worked on my colt when he was learning to hold his feet up - once you have hold of the foot and picked it up, let the fetlock joint rest against your leg or thigh. In fact almost push the foot onto your leg. They seem to feel more secure and it stopped mine from thrashing/cow kicking out pretty much instantly. It also actually means you are less likely to get kicked, as the leg is already close to your body. You can do it with the fronts too if necessary. You're not letting them lean on you, just using your leg/thigh as a stabilising force for security.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Great tip Nudibranch, it makes sense, thanks. I'll give it a go tomorrow. BB, are you up for the for the Hind Leg Challenge? We can compare notes.....or bruises.....

 

[asommerville]

I bribed mine with food lol started to cut the food down slowly until he only had a wee bit and now we can do it with none. one of those things that takes a lot of time and patience tho...sorry

 

[Bess]

You must get round this issue or he will be back to getting thrush again, I would get someone to help you holding his head while you pick up the foot, possibly outside if the stable is the place he has memories of bad times. As he picks the foot up they should reward him with a treat and a pat, if he is really upset he needs something to make it nice again and there is no reason that he should become bolshy from a few treats while resolving this problem, his hoof care is more important than the fact that he may become a bit nippy.
If there is noone to help still treat him as soon as he has had the foot picked up, clicker training may help and that is based on reward.

I agree with this post and every one that says give a reward for good behaviour. You want to get the horse on your side and allowing you to treat the feet and if treats allow your to do it, then fine.

My horse has had many problems with one foot, all different and not related but they have resulted in countless hours spent with him having a foot in a bucket and poultices applied. It makes life a lot easier if your horse complies with this because its hard enough without a fight.

 

[flirtygerty]

I would concentrate on treating for picking up a foot, when your horse is happy with that it's relatively easy to stop treats, just get it down to a single polo.
My daughter has found a calming product called Clop, she swears her mare is now constantly stoned, this is after 3 years of battles and threatening getting the meat man, it may just take the edge of your horses concerns
Sincere good luck

 

[Echo Bravo]

Tie him up with a haynet and put loads of carrots sticking out of his haynet,space them out and it works wonders as they are so busy trying to get the carrots out and eat them,this is what I'm doing with my foal at the moment so to get him use to being tied up, am able to groom him and pick his feet out without to much trouble, you have to make it a pleasure for him to have his feet cleaned out.