Tips on handling horse that tanks off in-hand

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SamGlynn

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Hi All,

I'm after some practical advice on how to handle my horse when I'm leading him to the yard from his field. This is at least a 5 minute walk away through 2 gates and across a quiet road. What I really need at this point is some step by step details on how to use a longer rope to stop my horse getting away from me during this walk. If anyone out there has had a hard to lead horse that sets his shoulder and tanks off and has any tips at all for me they would be gratefully received. I'm finding that the weak link in getting him in is the lead rope as once he's decided to go I can't seem to hang onto the rope and then it's too late.

Background
Have had my gelding cob (built like a tank) for a year and a half. He was terrible when he first arrived at the yard and used to tank off all the time and must have learned this from a previous home. He has taken at least a year to kind of settle in but every time a change is made he seems to lose the plot. He has been moved in the last month to a new field which is slightly further (with all his herd - about 15 horses) and since then we have gone back to him planting his feet in the field and tanking off or coming calmly half way to the yard and then suddenly tanking off. He is fine to be caught and will even walk up to me but then he might decide not to move and then it all goes downhill from there. The other side to this problem is that it is not all the time - over summer he was perfect for 4 months and I thought we had cracked this issue - come October and the field change and it's all kicked up again. I do regular groundwork with him and he is perfect once in one of the schools and will yield and backup etc perfectly. If i attempt to try any of this on the way into the yard he tanks off. If i attempt to use a whip he tanks off. If I try to apply to much pressure to him when he plants, he tanks off. I have tried pretty much every control headcollar, chifney, be nice, lead rope over the nose that I can and all I can say is that once he is in that frame of mind he has absolutely zero respect for any type of pressure and would gladly run through anything at all. I tried the Be Nice last week and it was 2 seconds before he was off.

I'm hoping that someone out there can tell me basic rules of using a longer rope to give me a better chance of keeping hold of him once he goes - the more I'm trying and he is getting away the more I'm compounding the problem and letting him know he can get away. I have though about tying a knot in the end of the rope so that it can't slip through my hands as easily? what should i be doing once I stop him? Looking for lead rope handling tips at this point!
 
A bridle or chiffney would be what I would use with a long rope or lunge line, a head collar or halter just does not cut it with some horses and it's just so dangerous if your having to cross a road or walk along one, I wouldn't lead any horse in just a head collar along or accross a road it's just not worth the risk.
 
not sure I really have any tips, sounds like you have tried everything I would think of, but please don't tie a knot in your lead rope. My horse bolted with me while I was leading him and I had an old lead rope that was fraying so had a knot in the end. The only time he has ever bolted with me and the rope slid through my hand took 2 fingers across my hand and dislocated and broke my fingers. that was about 10 years ago I still get aches in my hand and have very bent fingers!
 
Tori21 said:
not sure I really have any tips, sounds like you have tried everything I would think of, but please don't tie a knot in your lead rope. My horse bolted with me while I was leading him and I had an old lead rope that was fraying so had a knot in the end. The only time he has ever bolted with me and the rope slid through my hand took 2 fingers across my hand and dislocated and broke my fingers. that was about 10 years ago I still get aches in my hand and have very bent fingers!
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Thanks for your reply! So sorry to hear about that - it sounds like a nasty accident. Thanks for the advice - I won't be using that idea then x
 
Pinkvboots said:
A bridle or chiffney would be what I would use with a long rope or lunge line, a head collar or halter just does not cut it with some horses and it's just so dangerous if your having to cross a road or walk along one, I wouldn't lead any horse in just a head collar along or accross a road it's just not worth the risk.
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Thanks for the reply, tried the chiffney and that didn't stop him but I think my next attempt will be a bridle and a longer rope although I don't really hold out much hope at this point :-(
 
Sounds like you need help with timing/leadership etc from one of these https://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-trainers/

No-one on a forum can see what is happening, what your body language is nor how good your timing is. Many of the RAs are very reasonably priced, will come to you, show you what to do and then give you exercises to build on it
 
I do know someone who had a 16.2 tank of a cob she used to lead her horse everywhere in a roller and side reins, including to the field and back she said it was the only time she had a degree of control.
 
I
AnShanDan said:
Have you looked at clicker training? It might work where your other ideas haven't because it shifts the focus away from the problem behaviour. I've done it very effectively for a few different issues.
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Hi, I did think about trying this actually but I've found that he will just ignore food once in this frame of mind which blows my mind as he is so food driven usually. I think I will investigate further into the clicker training though and give it a go x
 
Pinkvboots said:
I do know someone who had a 16.2 tank of a cob she used to lead her horse everywhere in a roller and side reins, including to the field and back she said it was the only time she had a degree of control.
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Thanks for this - I will have a look at what that is as I've not heard of that before! Excuse my ignorance but I've only had him for a year and a half and he is my first horse xx
 
SamGlynn said:
Thanks for this - I will have a look at what that is as I've not heard of that before! Excuse my ignorance but I've only had him for a year and a half and he is my first horse xx
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As you say his your first horse have you had much experience with horses especially trickier ones? I only ask and please don't take this the wrong way but he may just be taking the mickey if he thinks he can get away with it, do the yard staff ever bring him in? Does he do it with anybody else leading him?

If you have never used a roller and side reins I wouldn't recommend using them until you have been shown how to fit them, as they can be fitted incorrectly and cause other issues.
 
I use a long rope for my tank of a welsh for loading, or handwalking (although he's generally a good boy) if he gets the call of the wild he does know his own strength and will set his neck and tank off at speed. Pulling back against him doesn't work but what does for me work is getting the neck to bend so if he sets off I make sure to keep up with the shoulder (easier said than done sometimes!) move inwards away from him and then pulling down and inward, aka "dropping the anchor" I am able to get him on a circle and regain control, pat and continue and once he's back walking nicely with some slack in the line. However, not a good idea if something has the propensity to kick out.
 
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Its not right for everyone but my cob would do exactly this, set his shoulder and neck and poof he was gone, Dually, Bridles, Lunge line i just couldnt hold him and telling him off would just make it worse. I got help and i now lead from the front with a 10ft line, i like to have him about a meter or 2 behind me. If he gets to close i shake the line so he knows to stay out of my space. Ive taught him to stand when i stand (again in his space, not mine) ect and he is very happy being lead like that, infact my former beast just turned into a plodding dope. If i know he might be a bit fresh i will sometimes carry a schooling whip which i will just hold and never need to use.

Its so frustrating when your horse just tanks off, you just need to find what works. Stronger head collars, bridles, elbows, raised voices just made my boy worse, calm and clear boundaries was the winner.
 
I had a Welsh cob who used to set his neck then go, no fun and not safe for anyone.
A chain running under his chin soon nipped it in the bud (don't ever tie up with them still attached to the chain though) I also used to insist he walked next to me with his neck bent slightly toward me, so it was harder for him to throw his shoulder against me.

If you can't get him to back up, lead nicely just in the yard, you need to start here. You can't expect him to lead well down tracks etc if it's not established in a more secure environment.

Does he do it with anyone else (friend, yard staff, instructor?)

Have you had a professional in to help?
 
JillA said:
Sounds like you need help with timing/leadership etc from one of these https://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-trainers/

No-one on a forum can see what is happening, what your body language is nor how good your timing is. Many of the RAs are very reasonably priced, will come to you, show you what to do and t
Click to expand...
JillA said:
Sounds like you need help with timing/leadership etc from one of these https://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-trainers/

No-one on a forum can see what is happening, what your body language is nor how good your timing is. Many of the RAs are very reasonably priced, will come to you, show you what to do and then give you exercises to build on it
Pinkvboots said:
As you say his your first horse have you had much experience with horses especially trickier ones? I only ask and please don't take this the wrong way but he may just be taking the mickey if he thinks he can get away with it, do the yard staff ever bring him in? Does he do it with anybody else leading him?
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Hi, yes he has done it with other people but mainly me and he probably is taking the mickey! I had to go up with 3 of the yard staff on Friday and also bring another horse in for him to follow and he came in perfectly so that says it all in my opinion! He doesn't do it all the time though and that's what makes is so difficult. It's really hard right now as I've been told I can only get him with at least 2 staff members and that means I can only ride at set times and not at all on the weekend - not great when you have a full time job.
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chaps89 said:
I had a Welsh cob who used to set his neck then go, no fun and not safe for anyone.
A chain running under his chin soon nipped it in the bud (don't ever tie up with them still attached to the chain though) I also used to insist he walked next to me with his neck bent slightly toward me, so it was harder for him to throw his shoulder against me.

If you can't get him to back up, lead nicely just in the yard, you need to start here. You can't expect him to lead well down tracks etc if it's not established in a more secure environment.

Does he do it with anyone else (friend, yard staff, instructor?)

Have you had a professional in to help?
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Thanks - yes I was going to try a chain as well. He backs up, yields hind and fore quarters etc all perfectly once on the yard but it all goes out of the window on the way in when he decides to bugger off unfortunately.
 
Horsekaren said:
Its not right for everyone but my cob would do exactly this, set his shoulder and neck and poof he was gone, Dually, Bridles, Lunge line i just couldnt hold him and telling him off would just make it worse. I got help and i now lead from the front with a 10ft line, i like to have him about a meter or 2 behind me. If he gets to close i shake the line so he knows to stay out of my space. Ive taught him to stand when i stand (again in his space, not mine) ect and he is very happy being lead like that, infact my former beast just turned into a plodding dope. If i know he might be a bit fresh i will sometimes carry a schooling whip which i will just hold and never need to use.

Its so frustrating when your horse just tanks off, you just need to find what works. Stronger head collars, bridles, elbows, raised voices just made my boy worse, calm and clear boundaries was the winner.
Click to expand...
Hi, yes I feel the same way - the more pressure I add to him the worse it gets.
 
Merlod said:
I use a long rope for my tank of a welsh for loading, or handwalking (although he's generally a good boy) if he gets the call of the wild he does know his own strength and will set his neck and tank off at speed. Pulling back against him doesn't work but what does for me work is getting the neck to bend so if he sets off I make sure to keep up with the shoulder (easier said than done sometimes!) move inwards away from him and then pulling down and inward, aka "dropping the anchor" I am able to get him on a circle and regain control, pat and continue and once he's back walking nicely with some slack in the line. However, not a good idea if something has the propensity to kick out.
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for answering - that sounds like great advice, luckily my boy is not a kicker so I think I will give this a go. Thanks for the tip this was exactly the kind of advice I was looking for x
 
chaps89 said:
I had a Welsh cob who used to set his neck then go, no fun and not safe for anyone.
A chain running under his chin soon nipped it in the bud (don't ever tie up with them still attached to the chain though) I also used to insist he walked next to me with his neck bent slightly toward me, so it was harder for him to throw his shoulder against me.

If you can't get him to back up, lead nicely just in the yard, you need to start here. You can't expect him to lead well down tracks etc if it's not established in a more secure environment.

Does he do it with anyone else (friend, yard staff, instructor?)

Have you had a professional in to help?
Click to expand...
I do similarly to this, I use a dually so I have more control on the left of his head and if he tries to set his shoulder and tank I pull down and shove his bum away so it just spins him into me

I really struggled to start as he worked out he clued just set his shoulder and go

But also agree with everyone saying you will need professional help to truly solve the issue, it's is just a band aid that will (hopefully) allow you to keep hold of him if he does do it!
 
My big wb would p**ss off whenever the mood took him, so I bought an Eskadron control headcollar (chain). You need to let them ‘test’ the headcollar themselves, don’t yank on it. If they pull, it tightens.
I use it on the loose setting now, he is an angel.
I know this sounds harsh, but nearly 700kgs of horse taking off is no fun.
 
My highland does this from time to time, usually when he spies some nice grass. He sets his neck and there is nothing I can do in a normal headcollar. 100% of the time I lead him in a headcollar with a dogs choke chain looped below his chin and attached to the leadrope, it does not go over his nose, or through his mouth and I never tie up using the choke chain, I clip the leadrope back to the headcollar but its pretty effective. If he does get away from me the next time I lead him I use a bridle, just the headpiece and a snaffle bit with a long rope, if he starts to set himself away from me I keep level with his shoulder, allow some rope and turn it into a lunging scenario sending him away and forwards on a circle using the end of the rope to flick him forwards. You do have to be careful not to get caught up in the rope and I would suggest always wearing a hat and gloves to lead him with. If you arent confident get someone who knows how to lead and lunge to show you the basics, once you become more confident youll be able to cut him off before he starts
 
Definitely get professional help.

In March I took on a project Welshie who was loaded in a chiffney, awful on the ground and never really led anywhere as stable was in the field, and he was loaded in the field. He is incredibly anxious and had learned to look after himself. His go to move if worried or not wanting to do as asked is to set his neck and bog off. He has a lot of baggage.

His field is on a road which we have to cross to get to the yard. I didn't get him out of the field for 4 months as I couldn't trust him on the road and I didn't want to use a chiffney. At first he didn't even want a head collar but I worked on leading him in the field for 4 months and gaining his trust and now he listens to me and trusts me to keep him safe. I have had help from a great professional and couldn't have made the progess we have made without her help. We can now explore the bridleway with horses galloping in the next field and he stays focussed on me and doesn't think about bogging off.

Some things that helped with him:
Leading from the other side as normal. This seemed to break the cycle a bit. I would swap sides whenever he got anxious.
Longer lead rope.
Not holding on tight, but teaching him to respect a jiggle of the rope.
Doing lots of relaxation work when we were leading.
Really working on reading his signals so I can catch him before he gets anxious and deal with the issue.

But you need a professional. With the right help you will get him leading well. Can be flipping frustrating though!
 
I would use a bridle, as you have to take him on the road.

But I use a rope halter rather than a headcollar and find that challenging horses respond better to it. I don't have a particularly long rope because I like to stay at the horse's shoulder. When I had a Welsh cob who was prone to trying to 'dictate the pace' (tank off), I always carried a schooling whip, held in front of the chest/nose and tapping the chest to remind the horse to stay in position. If the horse does get too fast the rope halter brings it round you, so that it doesn't get away.
 
We use an eskadron control head collar to turn out one of ours (18.3hh, 750kg and built like a tank). He gets so excited and this is the only thing that he respects.

we were about to call in a pro when we decided to give the control headcollar a try.

he’s only tried to tank off twice (and got nowhere) and we’ve now got him to the stage where he stands quietly for us to take it off (for a carrot) before wandering away.
 
I sound like a broken record but Richard Maxwell is out on "tour" doing demos. I recommend checking his website or facebook page to see if hes visiting anywhere near you.

His techniques really work and hes very open to questions, if you dont want to ask in front of everyone he hangs about during the break and after the demo to answer questions. If you message him/his wife they can also let you know if hes doing any teaching in the area if you wanted to take your horse to him.

Once the basic groundwork has been established you'll see improvements in all areas.

Good luck
 
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