Tips on handling horse that tanks off in-hand

[Frumpoon]

Snaffle bridle with stallion chain through the rings like a curb

 

[Pearlsasinger]

No, Paddy555, I never have let go but I would want to be able to let the rope slide through my hand if necessary. I *always* wear gloves. I find that bringing them round you can really help. One particular occasion in the snow with a 3 yr old, desperate to get to play with her friend who had gone out first springs to mind. She stood up on her back legs a few times but we got there all in one piece and still together, even after a few circles!

Silly girl, she would have got there sooner if she had walked quietly.

 

[FourLeafClover]

Richard Maxwell would be someone to try. He is amazing and very helpful and approachable 🙂 seeing him at a demo on Friday actually.

 

[JillA]

You've had this horse for a year and a half and he is still not respecting you or following your lead. Gadgets really aren't going to help, except possibly to wind him up, it sounds to me as though he cannot see why on earth he should listen to you, you are not a leader for him and gadgets won't help, they will make you (in his mind) a bully.
Get someone who knows this stuff and learn how to do it properly. It will stand you in good stead for your future years of horsemanship

 

[tankgirl1]

I don't know where you are but some years ago I had Paddy Gracey out to a loan pony I had with similar issues and he was brilliant

 

[SamGlynn]

My big wb would p**ss off whenever the mood took him, so I bought an Eskadron control headcollar (chain). You need to let them ‘test’ the headcollar themselves, don’t yank on it. If they pull, it tightens.
I use it on the loose setting now, he is an angel.
I know this sounds harsh, but nearly 700kgs of horse taking off is no fun.

Hi, thanks for this - I did buy one of those to try out and picked it up out of the field after 5 minutes minus the chain that he had broken tanking off in it. I really wish that something like that would work for me but it seems that he has zero respect for any pressure on his head and will just run through anything.

 

[SamGlynn]

You've had this horse for a year and a half and he is still not respecting you or following your lead. Gadgets really aren't going to help, except possibly to wind him up, it sounds to me as though he cannot see why on earth he should listen to you, you are not a leader for him and gadgets won't help, they will make you (in his mind) a bully.
Get someone who knows this stuff and learn how to do it properly. It will stand you in good stead for your future years of horsemanship

Thank you for your comment, I do want to say that I did 2 solid months of groundwork and no riding with him last year - we followed the Warwick Schiller plan. It helped to some degree but as I said this is an intermittent problem and not something he does all the time. I also do ground work with him once a week and he also does this with other more experienced people and not just me. I totally agree that these things seem to wind him up more than help so thanks for your advice.

 

[SamGlynn]

I don't know where you are but some years ago I had Paddy Gracey out to a loan pony I had with similar issues and he was brilliant

Thank you for the recommendation - I'm in Bucks so I will check out what areas he covers

 

[Mule]

Hi, thanks for this - I did buy one of those to try out and picked it up out of the field after 5 minutes minus the chain that he had broken tanking off in it. I really wish that something like that would work for me but it seems that he has zero respect for any pressure on his head and will just run through anything.

This might sound a bit weird but i wonder if he could do with re-learning to respond to very light pressure. He mightn't respond to pressure on his head because he's learned not to. He's got used to it, a bit like a horse that's become dead to leg pressure. They can still feel it but they don't respond as we want them to.

Maybe you could try leading, stopping him and backing up from a very gentle feel on the lead rope. Start very soft and give him time a decent time to respond. With some types, rather than increasing the pressure its best to keep it soft and steady until he reacts. It can take time but when he does, release the rope and praise him. It can take a fair bit of repetition for them to get it. Perhaps lots of practice with this away from the area where he tanks off. I think improving his response to pressure will help in general but as the tanking off is a learned behaviour, he's likely to keep doing it until something interrupts the habit. I don't know how to do this though, so I'd second the advice to get a professional in.

 

[9tails]

How do you lead him normally? What sort of pressure do you have on the leadrope at any time while leading him? How long are you holding the rope from his head? What is your reaction time like? Are you aware when he's about to go?

 

[tiga71]

This might sound a bit weird but i wonder if he could do with re-learning to respond to very light pressure. He mightn't respond to pressure on his head because he's learned not to. He's got used to it, a bit like a horse that's become dead to leg pressure. They can still feel it but they don't respond as we want them to.

Maybe you could try leading, stopping him and backing up from a very gentle feel on the lead rope. Start very soft and give him time a decent time to respond. With some types, rather than increasing the pressure its best to keep it soft and steady until he reacts. It can take time but when he does, release the rope and praise him. It can take a fair bit of repetition for them to get it. Perhaps lots of practice with this away from the area where he tanks off. I think improving his response to pressure will help in general but as the tanking off is a learned behaviour, he's likely to keep doing it until something interrupts the habit. I don't know how to do this though, so I'd second the advice to get a professional in.

I think this is a very good point. It is what I did with mine who was used to lots of pressure on his face. He hates it when you put too much pressure on or get too heavy with the rope/halter. Teaching him to respond to a light feel has made him much happier and easier to lead. Also agree that you need to interrupt the learned behaviour by doing something different and make him think and always be listening to you. I did this by leading mine round the field in very haphazard way, changing direction all the time.

 

[Mule]

I think this is a very good point. It is what I did with mine who was used to lots of pressure on his face. He hates it when you put too much pressure on or get too heavy with the rope/halter. Teaching him to respond to a light feel has made him much happier and easier to lead. Also agree that you need to interrupt the learned behaviour by doing something different and make him think and always be listening to you. I did this by leading mine round the field in very haphazard way, changing direction all the time.

I've also found it helps a lot to give them something to do so you keep their focus.

 

[WobblyBob]

Very long time lurker here, I have never posted on any type of forum or social media before, but this struck a chord. I had this problem with my ISH (just ask Zaminda, she knows him well!). His preferred tactic was to turn his head and neck away with no warning, by the time I knew what was happening it was too late to try and save the situation. He was very quick at this and because he is a strong chap he would just run through any type of head collar. I was not his only victim either, much more experienced people than I lost him too. There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for why he did it either. We could go months without and incident, then one day he would just decide to go off again.

In the end I led him everywhere in a bridle with a lunge line and paid VERY close attention to him, but its not nice to be on such high alert every time you want to lead your horse from A to B. This technique, however, did stop his little game and he seemed to grow out of it. I had no incidents for a good couple of years and went back to leading in a head collar. Then we started to compete and trailer to different venues. He was a bit of a sticky loader but I could get him on in a fashion. Lo and behold after attending about a dozen competitions he blind sided me (as he used to), tanked off at two different venues in quick succession and ran round the car park. Embarrassing and very dangerous for all concerned. After the second incident I decided not to muck about and sought professional help.

Like you I am in Bucks (hence the reason for me posting). I took him to see Sean Hardy on the recommendation of my riding instructor. He is Shabbington way but will come to you if you don't have transport. I decided to go to him as its when I was loading to come home where the problem had started again. He was very reasonably priced and he was very effective. By the end of the session Bob was wandering up the ramp of his own accord. I practised as soon as I got home and he was virtually loading himself, no hint of the running off. Sadly due to some competitions being cancelled I have only had a chance to test the loading away from home once but he was a star. Its also probably worth saying at this point that he did try to run off from Sean the first time he tried to load him but Sean was too quick for him! The whole experience of working with Sean was very low key and relaxed. No judgement, no ego and a good result. I can highly recommend him!

I would also like to say that in all other ways Bob is fantastic, I love him to bits and he is such fun to ride whether its having a blast or going to clinics/competitions. I knew that if I didn't get the loading/tanking off issue sorted it would mean that I would be reticent to trailer him anywhere (I am usually by myself) and it would affect my enjoyment of an otherwise lovely horse. Don't struggle on with this by yourself, get professional help you will enjoy your horse so much more and you will be very relieved to get the issue sorted.

 

[WobblyBob]

Just reread some of your posts, particularly about doing 2 months of groundwork.

I did loads of groundwork, read books, looked online etc. but ultimately its very hard to teach yourself this type of thing. You need to be very aware of where you place yourself and very good at timing, without a professional guiding you there is no way you really know if you are doing the right thing at precisely the right time. Its also easy to think that your horse is the odd one out who just doesn't respond like other horses do and no-one will be able to solve the problem, but to be honest its highly unlikely to be the case - you probably just need a bit of help in addressing the behaviour from someone who has the experience to do so.

Hope you get it sorted!

So that's my foray into the world of social media over...I will go back to lurking now!

 

[spugs]

My tank of a cob is best in a rope head collar but I did have someone out to work with us on using pressure and release. Timing is everything with it.

 

[Lurfy]

My horse (17hh) can be v forward in hand at times and I have managed to slow him down by turning in a circle every time he goes a fraction faster than I want. I mean I would literally turn in a circle every few steps until he got the message. It didn't take long and he was so bored with turning in circles he slowed down to my pace. I can even walk super slowly and he will match it. Worth a try, it's pretty simple to do and worked for me. Good luck.

 

[meleeka]

When my boy was on rehab and tanked off I ended up using a leadrein with a chain going under his jaw. He only tried to tank off once and a sharp pull shocked him. I’m sure it must have hurt, but our safety was more important. He was an arse in a bridle too and a control head collar. If he’s fine the rest of the time, you just need to get some respect when going to the field.

 

[Hack4fun]

Have you tried a dually head collar? I would try to avoid him pulling away from you so you are pulling him back -

My horse (17hh) can be v forward in hand at times and I have managed to slow him down by turning in a circle every time he goes a fraction faster than I want. I mean I would literally turn in a circle every few steps until he got the message. It didn't take long and he was so bored with turning in circles he slowed down to my pace. I can even walk super slowly and he will match it. Worth a try, it's pretty simple to do and worked for me. Good luck.

I did this too - and the situation improved.

 

[SamGlynn]

My tank of a cob is best in a rope head collar but I did have someone out to work with us on using pressure and release. Timing is everything with it.

Yes i agree - it's all in the timing and unfortunately I don't really have any experience with that. I'm looking for a trainer in my area as I clearly need some help! x

 

[SamGlynn]

Very long time lurker here, I have never posted on any type of forum or social media before, but this struck a chord. I had this problem with my ISH (just ask Zaminda, she knows him well!). His preferred tactic was to turn his head and neck away with no warning, by the time I knew what was happening it was too late to try and save the situation. He was very quick at this and because he is a strong chap he would just run through any type of head collar. I was not his only victim either, much more experienced people than I lost him too. There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for why he did it either. We could go months without and incident, then one day he would just decide to go off again.

In the end I led him everywhere in a bridle with a lunge line and paid VERY close attention to him, but its not nice to be on such high alert every time you want to lead your horse from A to B. This technique, however, did stop his little game and he seemed to grow out of it. I had no incidents for a good couple of years and went back to leading in a head collar. Then we started to compete and trailer to different venues. He was a bit of a sticky loader but I could get him on in a fashion. Lo and behold after attending about a dozen competitions he blind sided me (as he used to), tanked off at two different venues in quick succession and ran round the car park. Embarrassing and very dangerous for all concerned. After the second incident I decided not to muck about and sought professional help.

Like you I am in Bucks (hence the reason for me posting). I took him to see Sean Hardy on the recommendation of my riding instructor. He is Shabbington way but will come to you if you don't have transport. I decided to go to him as its when I was loading to come home where the problem had started again. He was very reasonably priced and he was very effective. By the end of the session Bob was wandering up the ramp of his own accord. I practised as soon as I got home and he was virtually loading himself, no hint of the running off. Sadly due to some competitions being cancelled I have only had a chance to test the loading away from home once but he was a star. Its also probably worth saying at this point that he did try to run off from Sean the first time he tried to load him but Sean was too quick for him! The whole experience of working with Sean was very low key and relaxed. No judgement, no ego and a good result. I can highly recommend him!

I would also like to say that in all other ways Bob is fantastic, I love him to bits and he is such fun to ride whether its having a blast or going to clinics/competitions. I knew that if I didn't get the loading/tanking off issue sorted it would mean that I would be reticent to trailer him anywhere (I am usually by myself) and it would affect my enjoyment of an otherwise lovely horse. Don't struggle on with this by yourself, get professional help you will enjoy your horse so much more and you will be very relieved to get the issue sorted.

Hi Emma, Thanks so much for replying to my post. I'm normally a lurker as well Everything you said sounds exactly like what I'm going through now - there is no reason that I can see and he has been perfect for 4 months and then, Bam, he starts again. It's to the point where I don't know how he will be day to day and it's not just with me although I'm the one bringing him in and out 99% of the time so hard to judge that really. He will run through any type of head collar just the same as yours. It's like he will run through any pain to get away - the pain means nothing to him let alone pressure and release. I'm glad to hear you had success with the bridle as that's my next thing to try and I will definitely have a look at Sean Hardy as i think I need to start looking for a trainer before this goes any further. Thanks again for the advice - it helps to know I'm not the only one and that you managed to sort the problem out.

 

[SamGlynn]

Just reread some of your posts, particularly about doing 2 months of groundwork.

I did loads of groundwork, read books, looked online etc. but ultimately its very hard to teach yourself this type of thing. You need to be very aware of where you place yourself and very good at timing, without a professional guiding you there is no way you really know if you are doing the right thing at precisely the right time. Its also easy to think that your horse is the odd one out who just doesn't respond like other horses do and no-one will be able to solve the problem, but to be honest its highly unlikely to be the case - you probably just need a bit of help in addressing the behaviour from someone who has the experience to do so.

Hope you get it sorted!

So that's my foray into the world of social media over...I will go back to lurking now!

Hi Emma, Yes I agree - i feel like i need training myself to show my how to hold the rope, where to place myself so that I can brace against him etc. I guess my main concern is that I will pay a trainer to come out to me and he will be on his best behaviour lol. I just think it's going to be hard for them to demonstrate this kind of thing to me when he is not actually showing the tanking off!

 

[D66]

You have had a go at sorting the problem yourself. Getting some professional help will save you money in the long term. Michael Peace is in Oxfordshire and can usually come out very promptly. He isnt cheap, but he is very effective and then you can get on with enjoying your horse.

 

[9tails]

Hi Emma, Yes I agree - i feel like i need training myself to show my how to hold the rope, where to place myself so that I can brace against him etc. I guess my main concern is that I will pay a trainer to come out to me and he will be on his best behaviour lol. I just think it's going to be hard for them to demonstrate this kind of thing to me when he is not actually showing the tanking off!

Don't worry, an instructor will be able to tell almost immediately what the problem is. The trick isn't to brace against them, you'll never win even against a miniature shetland. It's to stop him even thinking about going.

 

[Tarragon]

I took my pony to a Richard Maxwell demo, and he made us all simple rope tied halters to use, which were made by him on the day from a single line of rope and a few knots. It is the traditional style where the over the nose bit just goes through a loop and can tighten. It really worked with my pony. If I want him to behave now I just have to put it on on!

 

[WobblyBob]

I feel for you so much, its frustrating and worrying when you can't seem to find a solution to achieve what other people take for granted. Try not to take the behaviour personally, it sounds like it started before you had him. I know that is easier said than done, been there and got the rope burns to prove it! You have recognised there is a problem, tried to solve it yourself and couldn't and now you are seeking help for which you should be commended. Whichever trainer/behaviourist you use, make sure you stay safe until you can get to see them. Wear gloves, hat and lead in a bridle using a longer line for now. I found putting the lead line through the bit ring closest to me then over his poll before clipping to the outside bit ring was the most effective, but other people may advise differently. Try not to hang on for dear life, keep some slack in the line just in case tension in the line or pressure on the poll sets him off. I found that if he was about to turn his head with this set up I felt the movement early enough and could correct him quickly. I also liked his head more or less level with my elbow as I could keep an eye on him, if his head was way in front or behind it just gave him those few extra milliseconds to get a head start. Again, I stress, that's what worked for me. If you can get help at the yard in the meantime I also found he was less likely to try anything if someone was walking on the other side of him as it blocked his escape route.

With regard to worrying about whether he will demonstrate his trick to a trainer, I agree with 9tails. A good trainer will see what the underlying problem is likely to be without necessarily having to witness the endgame! I was surprised when Sean took Bob straight to a round pen rather than wanting to see him load. One of the things he was doing was looking to see how Bob reacted to instructions. Interestingly one of the first things he said was that Bob needed to respond to his handler more quickly when asked to do something. He did do everything asked of him but not as quickly as Sean would have liked. This is true of when he is schooled as well, he can be behind the leg. Sean made a few more observations, then got me to do some work with Bob. At this point you really do have to set your ego aside. It was a bit depressing to see Bob falling over himself to do as Sean asked when they had only just met and then me not get quite the same result! BUT, that's the whole point of going to a professional. They are (or should be) good at what they do because they have experience of working with lots of horses and they have a skill set that I, as the hobbyist, could never hope to have. As it happened Bob did decide to try and run off on loading, but it wasn't his day as by this time Sean had his number!

We are still early days with the loading and I would like to get out to a few more events before I confidently say we have the problem nailed, but the difference has been amazing. Sometimes I think the trick to being successful with horses is to recognise when you have reached your limit (be that skills, mental fortitude, money or physical ability!) and seek appropriate and effective help.

 

[Annagain]

I totally agree with everyone who says to get some help from a professional but in the mean time, how treat orientated is he? Mine will do anything for a treat - to the point I can get him in and out of the field just following me with a treat in my hand. Most of the time his nose is almost attached to my hand. Could you distract him or encourage him to stay with you with treats? Walk a few steps - treat; walk a few more - treat etc. You can increase the gaps between the treats as he improves so in the end, he only gets one when you arrive where you want to go? I wouldn't say it's a long term solution but in the short term it might just be enough to keep him with you? Get something really tasty and really smelly (mine loves the Spillers herbal treats, I call them horsey heroin) they don't seem to have a strong scent to me but he knows when I have them in my pocket! A nice noisy packet might help too so you can rustle it if you feel him getting strong. It's not an ideal solution but sometimes a bit of bribery goes a long way.

 

[paddy555]

No, Paddy555, I never have let go but I would want to be able to let the rope slide through my hand if necessary. I *always* wear gloves. I find that bringing them round you can really help. One particular occasion in the snow with a 3 yr old, desperate to get to play with her friend who had gone out first springs to mind. She stood up on her back legs a few times but we got there all in one piece and still together, even after a few circles!

Silly girl, she would have got there sooner if she had walked quietly.

sorry I didn't phrase my question vey well. I was asking if you tied a knot in the halter once you put it on, not on the leading rope part but on the head part where the rope comes out from underneath the jaw.

on reflection I am not sure we are talking about the same thing which was why my question didn't make sense. I have just looked up rope halter and it is thin nylon and head shaped with lots of knots in it. I took a rope halter to be what we used 30 odd years ago which was white rope similar to halters they show cows in. It seems I haven't moved with the times with rope halters.

 

[Bellaboo18]

I think an instructor would be the best bet to see what's going on. I can't see a gadget working here.

I do wonder if something is hurting though when pressure is used and that's why he's legging it.

What's he like to be ridden?
(Sorry if I've missed that somewhere)