Tips to help child sit down in canter?

Fiona

Fiona

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Would be very grateful for any suggestions, fully accept that just because I can ride, doesn't necessarily mean I can teach...

Son is coming 6.. Been doing pc for over 2 years. First on lead rein and now off lead thanks to an amazing pony. He can walk, trot, canter and jump about 30cm out of trot or canter.

The normally angelic pony took a notion to duck out last minute at a couple of jumps last week, which highlighted a problem I'd noticed but not addressed before..

He sits lovely and upright in trot, but in canter he is forward, like a sort of xc position and can't seem to sit down on his bottom.

What would help this? Preferably something fun lol..

Trot without stirrups perhaps? ?

Any suggestions, games etc gratefully received. .

This is son and pony..



Fiona
 
Try teaching and getting him to practise the different seats, forward, upright and back..in trot and canter, with and without stirrups...you could do quick changes maybe on the roll of a dice? Down the long side - forward, short side - upright, round a circle - back
 
We have a pony who has always had sharers (husband's pet really) and I have always had to get HIM to help the boy sharers we have had, with their canter seat. I just asked him and he says that boys need to relax, sit back and push slightly in the stirrups when cantering, so they don't bump their rather sensitive parts on the saddle as they are in/come out of canter. I notice this in my son - even though his Daddy has taught him and he has a lovely upright canter seat, if his pony is being stubborn and he's having issues coming out of canter, he will come out of the saddle for the downwards transition so as not to end up scooting forwards in the saddle and hurting himself on the pommel. We have a soft cub saddle at the moment, and he would not sit nicely in the harder saddle he was using before. When he graduates to a treed saddle, my husband says it will have to have a flat, soft seat. He insists on a nicely padded, flat seat for himself!!!
 
As an adult learning to ride, my body protector was a tad too long and stopped me sitting 'down' in the canter rhythm. Trot wasn't a problem. It maybe worth checking somehow?
 
If the pony will lunge then pop him on and have your son to canter with no reins/stirrups/holding on, not holding on.
Play the Simon says game, asking him to hold on in different positions, hold his hands out etc. Make sure he knows he can hold on if he feels out of balance etc as this will keep his confidence up.

Basically you need to get your son relaxed in the canter as in the forward position he is taking his weight through his legs and not absorbing the movement through his hips, swinging with the canter movement.
Balance in canter can be a hard thing to achieve, it's finding a que the rider understands to get the correct seat.

Strangest one I've had when teaching is telling my rider to 'look at the sky' while catering! This made her sit in her bottom rather than pitching forwards.
 
Just typed long reply and lost it.

Will try all suggestions including the possibility of removing body protector and report back :)

Never lunged her with rider but worth a try..

Thank you all...

Fiona
 
I got my daughter to sit to canter by putting a £5 note under her bum. If she still had it at the end of the ride she could keep it. (Explains why she has more money that I do!) But I hadn't thought about the male anatomy issues....

Edited to add... well over 10 years later she has the most amazing sticky seat. She looks welded to the horse's spine - saddle or not. Not sure if the money incentive did that or her natural balance...
 
I was wondering about asking him to sit on a piece of paper, but he genuinely doesn't seem to know how to be able to sit down despite being fine in trot....

Think I'll have to try lunging so he can hold his balance strap and see if that works.

Will try paper trick trotting with out stirrups though :)

Fiona
 
I will admit she hasn't actually cantered bareback before that day and rarely even ridden bareback. ;)

I think Fiona it's mostly time and strength that fixes it as much as anything else. My daughter is 8 in April and she has come on leaps and bounds in the last few months after feeling like nothing much changed for 2/3 years.
 
What is the pony's canter like - if it is stiff in the back it will bounce him around.

A trick I used with my riding school kids learning to canter.
Pony on lunge
Have rider hold the back of the saddle with both hands once pony is in canter, tell him to hold the saddle tight to his bottom. This will then give him the sensation of how he needs to move his body for canter. This can also be done in a safe enclosed area without the lunge - knot the reins so they don't slide up the pony's neck, I usually undo the buckle at the centre and secure it again through a D ring on the saddle.

At his level - I would be expecting him to approach all jumps in a slight folded forward position - it better places and prepares the rider for the jump, when correctly in balance he will be able to follow through with his hands without planting hands at the withers.

The combination looks really cute :D
 
Put something under his bum in the saddle and say he has to keep it there for 3'rounds of the arena or similar (eg. 3 goes round the playpen). Even sitting on his whip would be good!

Or could get him to put hands on head or touch his other shoulder etc. Anything that might get him to sit up without thinking about it!

He'll get better in time anyway, you could just tell him to lean back as far as he can go coming into jumps as that will help him sit to the ducking out.
Riding with the reins in the other hand is also quite good fun.

I wouldn't pester too much about sitting down more in canter, when he's bigger and legs reach a little further down he will find it much easier to sit up as will be able to use legs around pony :)
 
I've just done this with a student (albeit in her teens) today as she has a similar problem. Started working in sitting trot and moving between sitting and rising trot. I ask them to think of a sponge in water which has soaked up all the water, they need to be that squishy wet sponge on the ponies back. Lots of breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth to help them relax too. Also shoulder rolls then letting the elbows hang by the side so the arms are nice and loose. The littlies can do all these things too :) I find if I can get them sitting on their bum (and not leaning forwards/sticking their bum out) in sitting trot, it naturally seems to translate into canter. I suspect he may be being wary of his boy bits too, so appropriate undies and sitting on his bottom I think.
 
If you have a look at people who have difficulty cantering, if you look at their sitting trot they do a circle with their hips, and the front portion of the circle is down. They need to lean VERY far back until their front part of the circle comes up.

It is sometimes helpful to have them think of shoving the saddle up the horse/pony's neck (not that you want them to do that forever, but as a transitionary phase it helps them to activate the core, and turn the circle the right way).

If someone tries to canter with the circle going downwards they clonk their man parts on the saddle. They will generally learn the trot first with the circle, then go on to canter.

Again leaning back and shoving he saddle (temporary!) will help activate the core at the correct time. Also, on the lunge arm circles will open the front to allow the core to activate at the correct time.

Iy may be better to teach "standing" canter, and then just sit for a few beats, as young children do not have capacity for great core strength immediately, and it has to be brought up slowly.

I exaggerate the movement to teach it. Then refine it once the core is triggered. I find you have to turn it to an exercise as the novice rider will go foetal as a defence, and as it does save them from clonking, the body needs a better way before it lets go of the previous one.
 
While sitting trot and canter will improve balance it does little to prevent the bounce of canter once with stirrups again.

I owned a riding school for 10 years with upwards of 300 riders coming through weekly. We always taught canter initially without stirrups as the riders don't bounce when they have no stirrups. This phase of their lessons was to give them confidence to canter. It works.

However once they get their stirrups balance and position change, they start to bounce. To sit to the canter the rider has to allow the hip joints to open and close as the legs effectively swing like a pendulum while the upper body stays still. This is where the holding on to the back of the saddle works so well. Firstly it has the rider sitting up straight, while it gives the rider a feel for the movement.
 
Red-1 said:
Iy may be better to teach "standing" canter, and then just sit for a few beats, as young children do not have capacity for great core strength immediately, and it has to be brought up slowly.
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Having taught hundreds of children to ride they certainly do have the ability to sit correctly, without bouncing in canter if taught correctly - I have never taught riders to think of anything but sit softly and let the horse/pony move them. As for canter - the exercise I explained earlier, immediately gives them the feel for the canter movement - they then find canter easy.

The only 'imagine' image I give them for sitting trot is to feel like they are on a bicycle, as one hip moves up and forward, the other is moving down and back. To many riders treat sitting trot like they are riding a kangaroo. trying to move both ips in the same direction at the same time.
 
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Tnavas said:
I owned a riding school for 10 years with upwards of 300 riders coming through weekly. We always taught canter initially without stirrups as the riders don't bounce when they have no stirrups. This phase of their lessons was to give them confidence to canter. It works.

However once they get their stirrups balance and position change, they start to bounce. To sit to the canter the rider has to allow the hip joints to open and close as the legs effectively swing like a pendulum while the upper body stays still. This is where the holding on to the back of the saddle works so well. Firstly it has the rider sitting up straight, while it gives the rider a feel for the movement.
Click to expand...

That's great that you taught many children. But you don't need to keep stating it in every post you give info. Just because your method worked doesn't mean it's right for others or indeed will work for others.

This is still a small boy, learning to canter for the first time and the whole thing should be a fun exercise to encourage him to keep riding and enjoy it!
Riding without stirrups would be better on an older child but at this point may discourage him. You also can't tell him to move his hips forward and open them - the child is 6!!

Improving position via games and challenges to make it fun is the key, not forcing no stirrups on a bouncy pony on the lunge which could very quickly put a young boy off riding
 
Red-1 said:
Iy may be better to teach "standing" canter, and then just sit for a few beats, as young children do not have capacity for great core strength immediately, and it has to be brought up slowly.
Click to expand...

Tnavas said:
Having taught hundreds of children to ride they certainly do have the ability to sit correctly, without bouncing in canter if taught correctly
Click to expand...

Red was talking about their capacity for core strength not the ability to sit 'correctly'.

They are a lovely looking pair Fiona, and I've found the comments really interesting, partly because cantering seemed to take me a long time to 'get' as a kid and it is interesting to come up with a why.
 
Is pony particularly bouncy? Little boy looks like quite a small chap, he may be finding he's being bounced out of the saddle and hadn't got enough weight/balance in him right now to sit to it.

Some of the suggestions here have been great. Bareback, put a feather or a piece of paper or something between his bum and the saddle and see he can keep it there.
 
only_me said:
That's great that you taught many children. But you don't need to keep stating it in every post you give info. Just because your method worked doesn't mean it's right for others or indeed will work for others.

This is still a small boy, learning to canter for the first time and the whole thing should be a fun exercise to encourage him to keep riding and enjoy it!
Riding without stirrups would be better on an older child but at this point may discourage him. You also can't tell him to move his hips forward and open them - the child is 6!!

Improving position via games and challenges to make it fun is the key, not forcing no stirrups on a bouncy pony on the lunge which could very quickly put a young boy off riding
Click to expand...

I've most likely taught more children of that age than you've had hot dinners! What you are trying to teach is is confusing as generally young riders have little understanding of how to control their body.
For example - tell a child to put their heels down immediately their wrists also go down as their young brains are still organising co-ordination. However tell them to spread out their toes inside their boots prevents the toes going down, or try toes up.

Riding without stirrups is beneficial but does not help once you give them back the stirrups. They bounce! None of the exercises you suggested would help much - hands on the top of the head would have him hunched over with toes down, still bouncing.

Once they feel the expected movement - they've got it. From then the only reason they might bounce is if the pony has a stiff back.
 
I'd try a pair of bunny ears to hold, balance straps can pull kids forward if they're not the right length imho. Might be worth suggesting pony is a space hopper (if he knows what one is) and he has to sit down to bounce.
 
teapot said:
I'd try a pair of bunny ears to hold, balance straps can pull kids forward if they're not the right length imho. Might be worth suggesting pony is a space hopper (if he knows what one is) and he has to sit down to bounce.
Click to expand...

Great suggestions, agree with you totally about balance straps - they too are great ONLY if fitted to the right length.
 
I used to do this (still slip into it occasionally) as I was taught to ride on such lazy horses I'd find myself leaning forward in an attempt to 'rev them up'! I had a lesson with an instructor who told me to take the reins into one hand and lift my other arm as high above my head as I could while cantering. For some biomechanical reason beyond my understanding, it actually worked really well! And when I knew what the desired position actually felt like, I found that eventually I could notice and correct myself without having to lift my arm in the air! So to make it fun for your little boy you could tell him to reach up to 'touch the sky' while he's cantering?
 
Sorry folks, I have been reading, but it's been one of those days culminating in a nitticus in hairicus situation this afternoon :( :( Really appreciate your time to help...

His pony doesn't have a big canter so fingers crossed it isn't too hard to sit to...

Loved the video fw...

Trying to get his heels down too so that's a brilliant tip tnavas :)

I'll reply more in work tomorrow. ..

Fiona
 
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