to all you FATTISTS out there please read this

thelwell_girl said:
How does being a child come into this? As a member of the Jewish faith and race, I was and am outraged and shocked at what some people have said. My age has nothing to do with it.

You say youve done A-level History. Surely you would have more compassion?! I am set to start my A-levels in september, and yes that includes History.

And the comment wasn't un-PC. It was MAKING FUN of the murder of 6 bloody million members of my race. Please do forgive me if I'm not supposed to comment on that! :rolleyes:
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Your comment "read a history book" lead me to believe you thought I was some stupid teen, so yes your age did strike me in that instance.
I have compassion, I never make comments like the ones made on this thread, because that just isn't the kind of humour I crack, similarly, I do not take offence to everyone who says anything slightly un PC, distasteful or different from my general line of thought, because I'm quite open minded about how other people think...
The slave trade was quite a horrific thing for the british to have been involved in, it doesn't mean I go into uproar evertime my OH implys I am his slave, you just have to learn to let go of some people's humour, it was said in a light hearted way.
Anyway, I wasn't on here to argue about history, I was putting my fattish point of view across. :)
 
i'm a jew and I understand the context in which the comment was made, also included in that 6 million are Russians, Gypsies, homosexuals and disabled. But if you are fat it is because you eat too much and you don't exercise enough.
 
Let's put this in simple terms. Nobody is saying "Hooray for the Holocaust!" or "Hahahaha Holocaust!" or anything awful like that.
Some people say that even if they starved themselves they would still be overweight.
Evidence of people that have actually been starved would disagree with this.

I'm not saying if I agree or disagree with this, but just trying to break it down because this thread becoming a proper wreck.
 
Georgia68 said:
Run to Earth, I don't know if you are trying to justify your earlier remarks, or if you genuinely believe it is ok to be blase about the holocaust? Have you seen pictures from the concentration camps? Do you really think that it's being PC to object to this crime against humanity being treated lightheartedly on a thread about weight?
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Totally agree with this and with Thelwell Girl, there is no way that the holocaust should be made light of, what happened there was despicable and repugnant!
I have been to Auschwitz and believe me it is nothing to make light of and is a sad and desolate place to say the least!
I am over 18 so i would assume you would class me as an "adult" and i would never dream of making light of this or any other situation like it!
It's not being "anal" it's having thought for others and sensitivity.
 
Re the weight issue. I am not very overweight having just lost 20lbs in 12 weeks.

Indeed I am not lazy, doing two horses daily and a full time job. However, I had got into bad eating habits. I have changed them and the weight dropped off. I am not starving, just eating better.

Simples.

(unless you have an underlying issue)
 
Georgia68 said:
Run to Earth, I don't know if you are trying to justify your earlier remarks, or if you genuinely believe it is ok to be blase about the holocaust? Have you seen pictures from the concentration camps? Do you really think that it's being PC to object to this crime against humanity being treated lightheartedly on a thread about weight?
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I don't NEED to justify my earlier remarks, all I said was I couldn't understand the massive fuss kicked up about one comment made by another forum user, perhaps because I've heard a lot of tasteless comments and it doesnt actually bother me. It happened, it was tragic yes but it happened, did you not here the comments about MJ's death, Jade Goody's death, the 9/11- everything tragedy, no matter on what scale, has tasteless comments made about it, I just choose to get on with my life without getting offended about every comment ever said or written, because I have other things to be worried about in my life.
 
Got to agree with Starzaan's comment re: medical conditions, etc. I have an underactive thyroid which means my metabolism has ground to a halt. I'm a size 10-12 but it's only through daily workouts at the gym, lots of other exercise and having a VERY strict (but balanced) diet. I can't remember the last time I had chocolate! It could be that I give in to my illness and just not care what I eat or whether I exercise but that would be just stupid. There are thin people who are a drain on the NHS - those who smoke 40 fags a day and drink a fair amount count for some.
If you're overweight just through lack of exercise and an unhealthy diet, then yes, you should change. If it's due to a genuine medical condition, then you should do what you can to help it but you may never be a size 8. If you're heavy and riding a horse that can't take the weight, then that's just cruel...

As for Belsen comments, I have a feeling it was meant in a light-hearted kind of way and not to offend anyone. God, I've had a plenty of comments about my part-Arab background (a favourite comment at school was that it was ME who'd kidnapped Terry Waite and he was hidden in my garden shed!) and I just take them with a pinch of salt :D And please may I say this without being jumped on or another long and un-winnable debate being started: but TG's quote "Those who do not know the past are doomed to repeat it " - Yes, I agree, it was terrible and should never be repeated so the suffering that was /is inflicted in the Middle East must have been done by those Israelis who don't know their own history then...! I'm a nice person so please don't batter me for posting this, it's a forum after all and we're all allowed our opinion :)
 
And it cost themselves money too - I do have diabetes, so yes, I cost the NHS money, but I also make a very large contribution (NI contributions and Tax) every month as I work full time - don't get me started on the whole who costs how much - if you drink/smoke/eat unhealthily/take part in high risk sports (ie. horseriding), you will cost the NHS money. Isn't that down to a lack of self control!
 
BAILEY67 said:
Totally agree with this and with Thelwell Girl, there is no way that the holocaust should be made light of, what happened there was despicable and repugnant!
I have been to Auschwitz and believe me it is nothing to make light of and is a sad and desolate place to say the least!
I am over 18 so i would assume you would class me as an "adult" and i would never dream of making light of this or any other situation like it!
It's not being "anal" it's having thought for others and sensitivity.
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I must just be a cold hearted bitch then, because in my life I have too many other things to do than to get outraged everytime someone makes some distasteful comment about some tragedy (because it happens alot, I'm sure you've seen the MJ/jade goody/9/11/morcombe comments before).
It's not that I find them funny, or think the holocaust was in anyway a joke, it's just because different people have a different outlook on things, and I'm usually too wrapped up in my own life to get offended.
 
More weight per square inch = more pressure. Simple. Its not fattest, its physics. Horses arent well designed to carry a rider anyway so to avoid problems for the horse pressure must be kept to a minimum. Obviously a heavier weight horse can usually carry more weight than a lighter framed horse so a heavier rider should always have a heavier framed horse. But sometimes people have to just accept that for horse welfare some people are just too heavy to ride.

Horses cant speak. They can however have uneven shoe wear, buck, snatch at the bit, be short striding, move crookedly..... but then these things go unseen at best and ignored at worst.
 
Fair enough being fattist is out of order (as long as they dont crush small feeble quadrupeds), but could I remind you that thin people have feelings too ;)

Comments such as 'ha ha you'd look ridiculous in that top, you need some shape to be able to wear it' and 'dont you eat, you'd look better if you had a bit more weight on?' or 'I wouldnt want to be as skinny as you' are supposed to be greeted with polite good humour and no offence at all. :mad:

I mean , do I ever say 'ha ha you'd look ridiculous in that top, it would make you'd look like a whale'? Noooo! :D

Now the fact is I'm a poor do'er, from a family of equally poor do'ers and it aint going to make any difference what I eat (not helped by the fact that I dont like potatoes in any of their guises, and very high fat food makes me feel sick, but there you go. I do love a bit of chocolate though!
 
teddyt said:
More weight per square inch = more pressure. Simple. Its not fattest, its physics. Horses arent well designed to carry a rider anyway so to avoid problems for the horse pressure must be kept to a minimum. Obviously a heavier weight horse can usually carry more weight than a lighter framed horse so a heavier rider should always have a heavier framed horse. But sometimes people have to just accept that for horse welfare some people are just too heavy to ride.

.
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I have to agree with this.
 
More weight per square inch = more pressure.
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Hmmmmm, although

fatty bird = big fatty ass (and hell I know about that one :D) = bigger surface area = quite possibly less pressure?

Just as an aside, my ex-boyfriends Mum was in Belson (a non-Jewish German and the niece of a very important nazi - she was also a raging anti-semetist :confused::confused::confused:).

They sterilised her and then she went on to have 4 kids - so much for German efficiency eh? :D
 
To those of you who don't get Jessica Jahiel's newsletter (Horsesense), here is a very interesting and insightful reply by the brilliant doctor:

>From: "Esmerelda" >Subject: Rider weight: I really do weigh too much > >Hi Jessica > >I just read an article that someone wrote you in regards to being >overweight and riding. I started riding as a girl on and off throughout >the years saying someday I'm going to get a horse. Now that I have >moved to a bigger place and can probably afford a horse I'm weighing in >at 400 lbs. I thought if I had a horse that stood at least 16H that it >would support my weight. As I don't want to injure any horse, I >wouldn't be offended, is there ANY horse breed and size that would >accommodate my weight? I've even thought of a draft horse. I'd really >love to get a beginner quarter horse or palomino. >Other than going down hill on cement of our driveway it would be on >country back roads. Are my riding days over unless I lose a couple >hundred lbs? If you print this, please don't use my name. Looking >forward to hearing back from you. Also can you please explain to me >what measuring in hands of a horse means? I just know my dentist's >horse was 16H and came up to my shoulder and I'm 5'10. > >Thanks, "Esmerelda"
 
Hi "Esmerelda"! First, here's the quick answer to your second, easy question: one "hand" (an old measurement based on the width of an 'average' person's hand) is four inches, so a 15.0hh horse would be 60 inches - 5' - at the withers, a 16.0hh horse would be 5'4" at the withers, a 16.2hh horse would be 5'6" at the withers, etc.

Now for your much harder question! The problem with trying to create a formula that matches rider weight with horse height is that there's really no easy correlation between the two. Nature meant horses to be around 15 hands or smaller, and although we can and do breed them for a lot more height, we don't actually increase their weight-carrying capacity by making them taller. Pound for pound, ponies are usually much stronger than horses; ponies and small, compact, sturdy horses such as Haflingers or Icelandics or old-style Morgans or old-style "bulldog" Quarter Horses are very good weight carriers, much better than taller horses! I know this is counter-intuitive - you'd THINK that draft horses would barely notice even a very heavy rider as they're so large and heavy themselves, but that's just not the case. Draft horses - like all horses really - are built to pull weight (well, more accurately to push into a collar and move weight forward) and not to carry it.

For a heavy rider, a stock-type horse - QH or Paint - would be a much better bet than a draft horse. Hunters who ride up into the mountains with packhorses and come down from the mountains with their packhorses carrying dressed elks will tell you that it's the little stubby, sturdy horses, NOT the tall, willowy ones (or the gentle giants, for that matter), that can successfully carry a third or half of their own weight down a mountain and back to base camp.

That said, those pack horses have two HUGE advantages over many riding horses: They are extremely fit, AND the weight they're carrying is carefully tied on and DOES NOT SHIFT. Most riders DO shift... which is why a very good rider can get away with being heavier than an average rider, and an average rider can get away with being heavier than a beginner rider.

You are right: 400 pounds IS a great deal of weight to ask any horse to carry, and I truly appreciate your frankness and the fact that you're so obviously thinking about the horse's welfare. If your question had been "I weigh 400 pounds and I want to learn to ride, do you think that's a good idea?" I would probably say "No" just because beginner riders of ANY size are hard on horses. It would be a major challenge for a horse to cope with a very heavy beginner, and learning to ride would also be a major challenge for the rider. ALL beginner riders have some coordination and balance issues at first, but the greater the rider's weight, the more impact that rider's position and movement will have on the horse's ability to balance and remain upright. Even a seemingly minor rider tilt to one side or the other can be very dangerous if it unbalances the horse. But since you're already a rider, and not a beginner, that's an issue with which you're already familiar, I'm sure.

That said, I truly don't believe that you will have to lose two hundred pounds before you can ride again; I've known any number of excellent riders who weighed in around 250 pounds, and one or two who did well at considerably higher weights. I had - for several years - a regular clinic rider who weighed around 300 pounds and was such a balanced, coordinated, skillful, and considerate rider that I never had to worry about her horses. She was always conscious of her horses' comfort level and concerned with their welfare. I felt privileged to teach her.

I've taught quite a few heavy riders whose weight would always be high because of their age, hormonal conditions, various illnesses, and medications. There are some illnesses and medications that make weight loss terribly slow and difficult; there are some that make it virtually impossible. That's one reason I always promote FITNESS FIRST; if weight loss is the ONLY goal, riders (and non-riders also) often approach it the wrong way and either use methods that harm their health OR - all too often - tie their self-worth to a series of numbers, and let the bathroom scale dictate whether they have a good day and feel like a worthwhile human or have a horrible day and feel like a worthless worm. Life cannot be all about weight. It just can't. I know so many wonderful people, most of them women but a few men as well, who have put their entire lives, not just their riding, "on hold" until they reach some magic number on the scale. I think that's terribly sad.

So, back to your situation! Obviously your riding options will be greater if you lose weight, both in terms of when you can safely begin riding, what sort of horse(s) you can ride, and what sort of riding you can do. Even so, if I were you I would not make your weight the only focus of a self-improvement program, and I would not set your target weight too low. As I said, I know any number of very accomplished, fit, considerate riders - male and female - who weigh 250 pounds or more and have healthy, happy, sound horses.

I also wouldn't put your entire "Project Horse" on hold until you've lost X amount of weight! I would begin right here, right now, preparing to be ready to ride when the time comes. By that I mean: Do the kind of preparation you would do if you were absolutely certain that you would be getting back into riding in, say, six months. Since riding without causing pain or damage to the horse is important to you (kudos to you, that's the mark of a horsewoman!), by all means give yourself some time before you go back to riding, and use that time to focus on building your fitness, your core strength, your flexibility and your coordination. In other words, become as strong and flexible as possible OFF the horse; that will make life much easier for you AND the horse when you begin riding. Weight loss will help, provided that it's the right sort of weight loss! What you really want to do is not lose "weight" - which can mean losing muscle and losing bone strength - but to lose fat whilst building or at least maintaining your muscle mass and bone strength. Please be careful. Just as some horse training methods are much more rational than others, and much more conducive to a good result (a sane, sound, happy, trained horse), some weight loss methods are much more rational than others, and much more conducive to a good result (a sane, sound, happy human) so be sure that any weight-loss methods you adopt are consistent with building your overall health and fitness.

Here's another possible option that you might not have considered: You could begin by DRIVING rather than riding - that's something you could do without any delay. Driving would let you get back into doing things with horses in a way that wouldn't cause problems, induce feelings of guilt, OR make you wait for many months before beginning. Also, driving is a lot of fun.

I think that what it comes down to is this: You'll need to achieve a certain level of fitness before you'll be strong enough, balanced enough, and "bendy" enough to ride in comfort and safety on a horse that is also comfortable and can remain sound. If you're already at that level of fitness, good for you; if not, ask yourself what preparation you would need to make before beginning any other sport - tennis, say. Then - this is the hard part - you'll need to do roughly TWICE as much preparation, because in tennis we can annoy the heck out of our doubles partners by making them do most of the work (BTDT: Anyone who was ever unlucky enough to play doubles tennis with me will undoubtedly be glad to confirm that it's incredibly annoying to have a soft, inept player as a partner) - but we don't actually expect our tennis partners to carry us in the literal sense.

In my experience, it's much easier to commit to and sustain a good fitness program (not to mention a weight reduction program) when I know that there are lovely riding horses and comfortable saddles waiting for me. You may find it useful to assume - which I think you can and should do - that there will be lovely riding horses and comfortable saddles waiting for you, too. If I were you, I'd plan to begin, when the time comes, with a good, old-fashioned, sturdy, sound, well-conditioned (this matters a lot) Quarter Horse, a well-fitting Western saddle (because they distribute weight over a larger area), and easy terrain that you can traverse at the walk. That will get you back into the wonderful world of riding in as low-impact a way as possible, and you can build on that.

If you can afford to maintain a horse, and you meet the right horse for you and it's available for purchase, there's no reason NOT to buy a horse even if it will be some time before you'll be able to ride it. The only caveat is this: You must improve your fitness before you bring a horse home. There is a lot of physical work associated with keeping a horse at home, and a fair amount of fitness required to do all of that work. But the work will help you take your fitness to a higher level, and you and your horse can build a relationship long before you ever sit on its back. This, after all, is what people do when they breed and raise their own riding horses - by the time they sit on that four- or five-year-old, they've already established a strong relationship with it over the years. It's NOT time wasted - it's time invested.

Does any of this help at all? I do hope that you will get back into riding - do NOT write off that possibility! You seem like a determined sort of person who can make things happen, and I hope you'll keep me posted so that I can applaud your progress.

Jessica
 
RunToEarth said:
I don't NEED to justify my earlier remarks, all I said was I couldn't understand the massive fuss kicked up about one comment made by another forum user, perhaps because I've heard a lot of tasteless comments and it doesnt actually bother me. It happened, it was tragic yes but it happened, did you not here the comments about MJ's death, Jade Goody's death, the 9/11- everything tragedy, no matter on what scale, has tasteless comments made about it, I just choose to get on with my life without getting offended about every comment ever said or written, because I have other things to be worried about in my life.
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Very well said, I too think this forum has gone way to far in the PC staked :(
 
Saucisson said:
Hmmmmm, although

fatty bird = big fatty ass (and hell I know about that one :D) = bigger surface area = quite possibly less pressure?
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For you but not for the horse. the saddle is the interface between you and the horse, hence more weight= more pressure. :)

Had to lol at fatty bird- how un pc!
 
teddyt said:
For you but not for the horse. the saddle is the interface between you and the horse, hence more weight= more pressure. :)

Had to lol at fatty bird- how un pc!
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Not when the weight is distributed through the fat ass/fat thigh connection and then there's also the front to back fatness factor.

Put it this way my beloved has a skinny ass and all his weight tends to be distributed to the front of the saddle wheras I have rather more "junk in the trunk" and boy do I fill that saddle. The saddle tree is utilised along it's full length and when I say utilised I mean UTILISED.

(Disclaimer - I'm not really that fat, just cuddly :D)
 
Wow, polemic post.

Here's my dilemma... You know when people start to resemble their pets? How do I persuade someone of a certain age and build that their horse needs to lose weight? It's not a cute baby belly or whatever, it's not a grass belly and it could lead to lami or something fun/expensive like that. :confused:
 
1) Fatcontoller says this forum isn't democtric and read top of Forum when you login in.
2) size 12,14,16,18 and on is no problem. I was anorexic when I got married 41 years ago and have put on slowly 3 stone over the years, which I'm happy about,keeping horses and life. So does it really matter what weight people are, cobs were breed as weightcarriers many years ago and so were many througherbreds as hunters. And many people over the years haven't been taught well at schools.So just enjoy your horses and life and forget about the sad people on here.:):):):)
 
RunToEarth said:
I must just be a cold hearted bitch then, because in my life I have too many other things to do than to get outraged everytime someone makes some distasteful comment about some tragedy (because it happens alot, I'm sure you've seen the MJ/jade goody/9/11/morcombe comments before).
It's not that I find them funny, or think the holocaust was in anyway a joke, it's just because different people have a different outlook on things, and I'm usually too wrapped up in my own life to get offended.
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I'm sorry, but I really don't see how you can even compare Michael Jackson's death to the Holocaust as an attempt to justify what you've said. Nor can you try and sympathise with the slave trade when you seem to be, from your signature, a white girl.
 
Clannad48 said:
Just to add to this - my daughter (5ft 7 and 9and a half stone - who is all muscle and no fat but looks like a stick insect) is often told that she must be anorexic (yeah right that's why I have to lock the fridge) or bulimic (no chance of that she loves her food too much) and is definitely overhorsed as she doesn't weigh enough!!!!
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Sounds like my OH - he's 5'6" ish and 9 stone. For a man he really looks quite thin - to the point his parents used to keep asking if he was ok. They didn't see the mountains of food he shovelled into himself every day! He seemes to literally be eating for 2! He does cycle quite a bit bit I think he's 'naturally' slim build.
I'm also lucky - I eat all the wrong stuff, I hate salad but stay at a steady size 12.
Goes to show we're all different and we all have a 'natural' weight that it's very hard to alter.
 
thelwell_girl said:
As a young Jewish person, I was horrified to see the amount the Holocaust is taught, at least in my school. We barely did a week or so, at the end of year 9!

Despicable :mad:

Those who do not know the past are doomed to repeat it :mad:
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I think you should be horrified just as a person. It wasn't all about the Jews as I'm sure you're aware. As an aside, I assume you had a full curriculum. Which other parts of history would you have liked left out to make room for the Holocaust and why? This is not me being facetious but a genuine question. Personally, I think it's even more important for people to inform THEMSELVES than just to take in what they are taught in schools, precisely because you can never get the full picture in the time that is allotted to each subject.
I find the Belsen comment in poor taste and largely irrelevant in the food debate but frankly anyone who uses that as an argument has little understanding and no empathy.
 
Good grief, what a thread!

I don't object to overweight people at all, until they decide to ride an unsuitable horse and then point the finger at everyone who objects by calling them fattist! On a suitable horse I've no problem, it is their body and their life and none of my business.

The trouble with todays society is that folks think that they can do exactly as they want when they want, and anyone who might point out problems is classed as an awful prejudiced person. We have become incredibly selfish and inconsiderate.

As for the Belsen comments, I don't think that they were meant offensively, and what was said is true, the same as you don't see overweight people when their is a famine in other countries, but because the holocaust is mentioned it is somehow wrong?

Remember that part of the point of concentration camps was one of control over others, and those who are saying how wrong it is to mention it are doing the very same thing in controlling what others can say, do or think publically. We really don't need any more thought police.
 
I've just read this post backwards in order to find the offending comment. My grandmother was Jewish, my grandfather was in the Desert Rats in the second World War so I feel qualified to comment. I was not offended at all by the comment. The poster was just quoting what someone else had said. I didn't read it as being offensive whatsoever! I think some people are taking things a little too personally. We cannot change history, we have to accept it and learn from our mistakes so that it never happens again.

As for larger people on horses, if they have a big built horse, let them get on with it. I am aware that I could not ride a 13.2hh lightweight built horse, but I am quite happy on my TBs, although I know that I must not put on any more weight or it could affect them. When I ride large cobs, I feel that they are just too wide for me and I don't enjoy riding them, so I think larger riders should enjoy their horses. I am sure that most larger riders are aware that they need a larger built horse and that is why they have them.

Anyway, I'm off to nurse my poorly horse and then off for a long walk with the pooch to keep the weight off!
 
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