To breed or not to breed (also in breeding funnily enough!!)

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AutumnRose

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This is also in breeding but as i have talked about T quite alot in here i thought it was worth posting here too to get thoughts as i'm not sure how many people venture into breeding
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I have a ISH mare by Western Promise who i have always intended to breed from and various reasons have meant i may now bring this forwards to next year. I was talking to someone at the weekend who said i'd be crazy to do it and i was quite suprised....i've always been against the 'we'll breed from it as it can't do anything else' course of action and had never considered that T fell in this bracket!! Anyways i was hoping if i told you a bit about her i could get some opinons....
I've had her 3 years, since age of 9. She was imported as a 5yo and had a couple of very nervous, very novicey riders plus went to a couple of dealers and hasn't done much at all. Although obviously sharp, lots of untapped potential. I'm experienced and have a fab trainer whos yard i'm based on so hoped with right work and time she'd event.

Good points- Angelic on the ground/to handle/do anything. Kind and loving, adores people. Kids on yard used her to practise stable management on for pc tests in summer!!
-Huge scope, we've jumped 1.40 oxers on her at home under saddle. Very easy. Don't have fence on school so cant loose jump and i'm not brave enough to jump bigger!
-Lovely movement, always gets 8's for paces.
-ALways wins/placed unaff dr up to novice including in v good company at oldencraig.Working elem at home. Will start BD this winter.
bad points-Sharp and spooky to ride, will jump at nothing. But does not buck/rear or bolt.
-doesnt have brain to event. Some days fly round, other days will stop for no reason, very inconsistent record eventing. Much better to sj but still difficult and inconsistent to a fence.
-nappy to hack alone, will spin and run backwards at nothing. Much better than it was and i regularly hack alone but wouldn't trust her for a second.

So all in all she it's her inconsistancy and sharp temprament that a couple of people have had a problem with, and they are people who have only seen her out eventing. My thoughts were that with the right stallion she could throw a very talented and gorgeous foal. She's adorable on the ground, tough and sound, hugely talented and i'm convinced that if she'd had a proper start in life would be a different horse.
Sorry its so long but i'd love to hear thoughts.......Oh she's bay in my sig!!
 
TBH, if she were mine I wouldnt breed. Yes, it sounds like she has all the scope in the world however she has an inconsistent attitude to competing which IMO is a big problem. A horse can have scope to burn but is nothing without a good attitude to use it! But really its up to you, if you plan to keep the foal and you like her how she is then go for it
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Thanks that was the general thought of people other day although they were very rude about her too so thanks for not doing that!! Her inconsistent attitude is the main problem and the reason i've stopped eventing her. She will do BD now as is way more consistant on the flat.
I know its a risk that foal might be the same but with the right stallion perhaps it wouldn't be the case...
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I have a very similar chestnut mare! On her day will win anything, but if she can't be bothered... well you can't change her mind! Saying that she has won £600+ BSJA plus many unaff SJ and eventing classes. She is a spooky mare at home - scared of her own shadow - and will spin round but brave and bold at competitions.

However we are certainly investigating putting her in foal next year on the advice of my trainer, vet and person that I bought her off (10 years ago). She is now 16 so weighing up whether she can be put in foal successfully. The plan is to go for a much quieter, easy going stallion poss Renkum Valentino.

As long as you are prepared to at worst have another of your mare, provided you chose an opposite stallion, I don't really see what the issue is. At the end of the day its your opinion that counts not anyone elses!
 
Thanks Jojo17. I will have to look into that stallion!! I was so suprised at the reaction i got i just wanted to check that i wasn't being barmy by thinking about it and it's interesting to hear peoples opinions.
 
She sounds very lovely but if she were mine, I don't think I'd breed from her. The mare is so often undervalued in the breeding, a good stallion may not fix things and the foal will spend all of its formative early life with the mare not the stallion... When breeding, I'd consider brain and attitude to be first and foremost and you can't teach a horse to be brave, they either are or they aren't. Think about why you want a foal and what you want to do with it later on. They're lovely and very cute but what if the foal is not especially talented or brave and not what you want. Could you sell him/her on? If you're after a young horse, I'd buy a weanling myself - you can see what you're getting conformation-wise and they're showing their personalities at that age. I take my cue from the continental stud books, they don't breed from any mare unless it's graded or proven at a high level - and by that they mean Grade A showjumper or Advanced event mare.
 
Thanks Kit279. I completely understand where you're coming from. The big risk i'm taking is obviously on the attitude, with a good stallion there is no more likely hood than with any other combination that her talent wouldn't be passed on. The foal would be a long term project for me and not to be sold on. I'm confident that i could give the foal a correct start. All breeding is a risk though isn't it?
 
SHe looks a nice sort and sounds good - you might find a foal takes the napp out of her - who were you thinking of putting her too? - i know of a few very nice sports stallions in Sussex not all "open to the public" but proven.
 
Thanks train_robber. Tbh i'm just starting to look into potential Daddy's!! i'd always planned to do it in a few years but as i've recently stopped eventing her i may well bring it forwards.

I'd be very interested in hearing and info you have. I want to get an event type and the one thing i'm pretty sure of is i don't want a full TB. Although she is ISH, she's only 15.3 and looks like a fine full TB - i'd ideally like a little more bone.
 
I'd breed from her if she was mine, I would be inclined to think that the less-experienced owners/riders she had in her real formative years mucked her brain up quite a lot. I would pick a stallion famed for his easy-going temperament and trainability, though.
I bred from a very good straightforward mare with a great brain who went a long way eventing, and the filly she had (by a good very trainable stallion) was spooky, flightly, and difficult... and I broke her in and rode her, and didn't ever let her get away with anything, it's just the way her brain was wired... so, there are never any guarantees.
If she's good in every other way, I would use her.
 
Thanks kerilli. I think the same about her early years...you don't know how many times my trainer and i have said 'if only we'd had her since she was 4!!!!!!!!!'

Temperament will be top of my list when stallion shopping!!!
 
If you do go ahead try to look for a stallion proven to pass on an easy going temperament, not merely possessing one himself - not always the same thing. I would also, for an unproven broodmare, try to go with the most proven stallion possible. Yes, breeding is a risk but the whole point of "custom breeding" is lessening the risks by making good decisions.

You don't mention it specifically but I assume she's pretty much conformationally correct? Again, goes to lessening risk - one weakness you might be able to make up but the more variable you ad the less likely you are to gain what you want.

Also, despite your plan to keep the horse yourself, I wouldn't totally disregard breeding for the market. Things change and if for some reason you need to sell the horse before it's advanced in its competition career known breeding will help your case. If you're only going to breed one horse again, you don't have much scope for experimentation.
 
My opinion is that I would breed from her. Dont underestimate the damage novices can do to a horse that is sharp and intelligent already. I think of it as 3 strikes and you've had it applies to horses. Hence if the horse learns to throw a person 3 times it will have convinced itself this is the way to go. It sounds to me like you have done a fantastic job with the horse in question, i feel very sorry that horses are let down by people and have an uneducated start. Its the whole arguement of nature Vs Nurture??? I would see no problem with breeding from her, especially as she has become more consistant in dressage/flatwork, and you will know all the naughtiness your foal may or may not have from the start and how to deal with it. Good luck.
 
Thanks enigma217.

TripleSandH. Her show jumping is much better than it was and bsja is consistent at disco/1.05m. It's not an area i've progressed in as have been concentrating on eventing. Her BE has not gone above PN because of her xc and so i haven't needed to jump her higher if that out makes sense? She is sharp in the ring and can/will stop.....not for no reason but if a little long/deep and she feels like it thats an excuse not to take off. Not be any means anytime out though and is very careful.
 
I would say yes.
I put my pony mare in foal and she was always a bit balmy. However she has now been back in work a year and is totally chilled out and calm. Her colt is very laid back too, nothing like his mother was!
 
I wouldn't see the point personally in breeding another animal out of a sharp/difficult ride who is not an honest jumper. IMO.
 
Personally I wouldn't breed from her from what you have described. Foals should really be produced from excellent motherlines as well as the stallion's. Perhaps you could buy yourself a nice foal instead ?
 
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