To complete the fun Trilogy.BSJA Rules. What changes would you make?

Z

Zebedee

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2006
Messages
6,458
Visit site
As so many people are enjoying these rules discussions the set wouldn't be complete without some comments on the good old BSJA!!

Personally I'd like to see the heights between first round BN & Discovery & regionals/finals not have such a big gap between them.

Anything else?
 
Ban 2 phase comps. £15 entry fee for 7-8 fences it too expensive
shocked.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ban 2 phase comps. £15 entry fee for 7-8 fences it too expensive
shocked.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Agree especially in places with smaller arenas (Norton Heath take note) - some places you just can't cram 13/14 fences in and still build a decent flowing course.

Should have access to a warm up fence on both reins
wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
As so many people are enjoying these rules discussions the set wouldn't be complete without some comments on the good old BSJA!!

Personally I'd like to see the heights between first round BN & Discovery & regionals/finals not have such a big gap between them.

Anything else?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Disco second rounds are okay...they're 1.10m aren't they ? Agree that the BN at 1.05m is a bit of an anomoly though.

I never understood why they changed the rule on refusals either from 3 faults for the first refusal and 6 faults for the second one to 4 faults for each...and elimination after 3 refusals rather than 2 please
tongue.gif


I think the rule that prevents shows running a combined Newcomers/1.10m Open if there is a bigger class following should be scrapped too...it's pointless
grin.gif
 
I would like to see elimination after 3 stops instead of 2 being brought back in.

Also, in hot weather no need to wear riding jacket if wearing a body protector.

If you buy a ticket I think the results should be shown on the horses record and prize money/rosettes awarded - as the BE do.
 
[ QUOTE ]


I never understood why they changed the rule on refusals either from 3 faults for the first refusal and 6 faults for the second one to 4 faults for each...and elimination after 3 refusals rather than 2 please
tongue.gif




[/ QUOTE ]

Ooh I know this one.......it's to save time - well thats what a senior (international) BSJA judge told me anyway !!!
 
Just a few
- Safety cups mandatory on warm up oxer
- 2cm smooth rowel spurs to be allowed
- Free look up of a horses winnings on the web
- Discovery max winnings moved from £175 to £200
- Regionals to be twice a year and sensible heights
- New competition jackets without the BSJA logo to be allowed
- Minimum 2 phase course to contain 10 jumps in first round
- Elimination on 3 refusals not 2
 
I hate the stupid newcomers / 1.10m rule where us opens jump first then do our jump off but have to wait until the newcomers all jump their 2 rounds before our prize giving - just stupid IMO and Id be very hacked off if I had to sit around waiting if I wasnt doing the next class after!

I think 2 stops is fine, but I dislike the 1 fall and you're out rule. I think you should be allowed to get back on and 2nd fall is eliminated like BE XC.

I agree with the not having to wear a show jacket (or BSJA approved one) in hot weather. It seems to have to be absolutely blistering hot before they'll let you just wear a stock shirt.

Regional competitions - there should be more of them. I know that sounds odd. But our regionals all tend to be miles away! I think our region is simply under "Scotland" which is rather a large area... Regionals I have qualified for have all been held 3 1/2 hours away.

Also totally agree with the idea of BSJA not charging for viewing horses records like BE. Its a joke! They should also have a results system, again like BE who I have seen show results the very same evening of the event! My BSJA records have not been updated for 3/4 months sometimes, they have cocked up my results 3 times, dont record all my double clears and have even tried to fine me once for entering an incorrect class which I proved wrong in the end.

There are a LOT of changes I would make to the BSJA. Not so much the running of shows etc. but just the results/records system etc. Oh and the fact that in my area we very rarely hear of BSJA shows in the first place! We have a BSJA Scotland website which hardly ever shows the calendar for my local ones. I have missed 2 this winter already purely from not knowing about them.
 
I don't think they should charge membership for judges and course builders. Without them the BSJA would not exist.

They should put the qualifying numbers back up to 10 for the Senior BN and Discovery instead of the maximum of 3. It is 10 for the Senior Newcomers and Foxhunter and also 10 for Junior BN, DISCO, NEW and FOX. Why is it in some cases only the winner gets to go to Stafford for the Senior BN and Disco?

Better allocation of Regional finals. I am in Region J, which is Avon, Somerset, Dorset, Devon and Cornwall. Probably 80% of members live in the Bristol/Somerset region - so why do they put the finals in Cornwall and they only get 10 entries in them? This is probably a regional commitee issue.

Free to look at BSJA records - although you can now look up the actual £ winnings of a horse on NED. No detail though.

The 1.10/Newcomers rule is just a awful.

I actually like 2 phase as long as there are enough jumps in the first round. At busy shows it makes life so much easier. Single phase is better, except when you are waiting for the class before you to finish
tongue.gif
 
Agree with Rambo about the stupid 110/Newcomers rule -there is absolutely no good reason for it, what difference does it make if there is a bigger class after it.
confused.gif


I also think the whole show catergory thing should be scrapped - Noone wanted it to happen in the first place, it hasn't acheived anything - it just means there are even less foxhunters than there used to be.

Show centres should be able to put on the classes that are best for their clientel without having to pay seperate registration fees for certain classes.
 
Oh my god I LOVE 2 phase! It saves sooo much time! I also find that that the old adrenaline is pumping by the time im over the last ready to kick on and take the first daring turn without a break in the rythm.
I love getting there, doing my round and going. No jumping first round, waiting for 40 others and then going into the jump off in cold blood and half asleep.

I agree they should record the results on a database like they do BE.

I also think they should ban entries on the day - I hate it, turns it into a free for all, reminisant of unaffilliated and waiting for 80 competitiors before its your turn. Also you turn up expecting to jump at 11am and end up not jumping untill 2pm because 50 people decided to turn up and enter on they day. OOOOhhh im ranting, will shut up now coz I love showjumping really
smile.gif
 
I think 2 stops and E is fine at 1.10m + but generally anyheight below has alot of babies which often need a circle when things go a bit wrong, so I think should be 3 stops at below 1.10m!!!
 
Some of the suggestions already made are really quite sensible.
There is a show organisers meeting at Stoneleigh at the end of this month.
I will certainly put some of the suggestions forward - might get hit with a brick wall though!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
DieselDog - Have you got a link for looking up winnings on "NED"? (I assume National Equine Database but cant find it on their website?)

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.nedonline.org.uk/Beta/Home.aspx

Not sure if you have to be registered to use it or not.

But you can search by horse and it will have how many points it has got and its BSJA actual winnings. I think it is a bit out of date though.
 
Cazzy, if anything - please please I beg you to tell them NOBODY likes the newcomers/1.10m open rule!! It does NOT work and just puts people off entering because they have to wait around. Also, tell them their membership fees are way too high... (perhaps I am pushing it!). AND they should definately offer reduced day tickets if the rider is already a BSJA member.
 
I hate pre-entries! All that fuss if your horse is lame when you get it out the stable in the morning, having to pay for vets cert if you want your entry fees back. Or if your lorry breaks down.

Newcomers/1.10m rule is poo. My pony mainly jumps 1.10m opens so at most shows he now has to do either 1.05m and 1.15m or 1m then 1.15m (bit of a difference).

Also at a show I went to in the spring a girl was in the middle of her jump off round (two phase class) and some idiot rode in and started cantering round in circles. The girl had to stop but the judge couldn't see what the poblem was! The girl ended up with time faults when her round would have put her in at least the top three had she stayed clear. The judge should have eliminated the guy who rode in, there should be a rule for that. He had four faults in the end but I would have disqualified him for that.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Cazzy, if anything - please please I beg you to tell them NOBODY likes the newcomers/1.10m open rule!! It does NOT work and just puts people off entering because they have to wait around. Also, tell them their membership fees are way too high... (perhaps I am pushing it!). AND they should definately offer reduced day tickets if the rider is already a BSJA member.

[/ QUOTE ]


Can you be more specific why you don't like it.
I know different show centres run this class differently.
For instance we would normally have over 30 in this class so split it into 2 to start with and run them concurrently. The newcomers horses jump 1st and after their jump off (if not 2 phase) we give the arena a quick harrow while the judges run off results sheets and we give rosettes/prize money out from the secretary's which means no waiting around hopefully for the competitors. It also means you can jump the same horse in both classes.
If a show centre runs it as a joint class then there would be less than 30 in the class so shouldn't have to wait too long for rosettes and you would be in jump off anyway.
The main reason they brought in the new rule was that at many shows newcomers horses were getting their double clears but the open horses were winning all the money and the newcomers people complained.

I agree about the 3 refusals for b/n and disc classes. I think that with novice/young green horses you sometimes need that extra lifeline!

Good suggestion about the reduced day ticket for registered members - always worth asking the show organiser if they have any free tickets as we got some sent through last year to give to people to use at our shows.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Just a few
- Safety cups mandatory on warm up oxer
- 2cm smooth rowel spurs to be allowed
- Free look up of a horses winnings on the web
- Discovery max winnings moved from £175 to £200
- Regionals to be twice a year and sensible heights
- New competition jackets without the BSJA logo to be allowed
- Minimum 2 phase course to contain 10 jumps in first round
- Elimination on 3 refusals not 2

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all except one.... I can see why you would want at least 10 fences in the 1st round of a 2 phase but I think this is unfair for young horses in BN and dis who are normally 4-5. If there is 10 fences in 1st round and say 5-6 in jump off phase, they will be dead before the end.

Personally I quite like single phase because at least you get to jump 12 fences whether you have a fence down or not so are getting your moneys worth and not killing the younger ones.
 
Going off thread slightly for a minute -
At next years shows we are planning on doing some b.novice single phase instead of a7 or two phase - would you as competitors like this or not?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hate pre-entries! All that fuss if your horse is lame when you get it out the stable in the morning, having to pay for vets cert if you want your entry fees back. Or if your lorry breaks down.



[/ QUOTE ]

At last years meeting the bsja committee were all for pre-entries and trying to get more show centres to do it.

I think this is a very difficult situation to please everybody. Also makes a difference if indoor or outdoor show. Indoors you can jump later as no problem with light whereas outdoor you are limited to what time you can jump too.
For our show centre, we have done most of our shows pre-entries for the last 3 years which we have to do as we would not be able to accommodate everyone if it was all entries on the day. Not saying this is the case at all our shows but definitely 3 or 4 day shows. If entries are not full, we do accept entries on the day. On the plus side of pre-entries it does enable you to plan the day to a certain extent for all those riders who ring me all day long to see what time their class will start!
 
Oh don't get me started!
Main things:

I agree with above re one fall and you're out rule (a friend got eliminated as her horse did a massive spook before she'd even started her round and got her off. Bang goes £14. She then went H/C and went clear).

Also I think 2 stops = elimination is a bit stiff.

Practise jumps: BE works so well as most of them have a x-pole, upright and spread. Much better than the 2 you usually get at BSJA. (Although I appreciate there's generally more room at BE).

I like 2-phase as you get through the class quicker, but there should be at least 9 fences in the first round bit. I would be totally happy to go back to single phase if only there was some sort of limitation to entries. Which brings me to.....

Can there not be some sort of rule which stops people arriving just before a class ends and entering, so the class goes on, and on, and on, and on...... The show centres don't seem to enforce the half hour limit for the first class which would at least go some way to alleviating this.

I think, on balance, I prefer shows where you pre-enter, but would be better if it was closing date just 3 days before rather than a week.
 
I prefer the new ruling for 4 faults per refusal.... I could never understand why a disobedience was less then a knock down... when I’m some instances (not all) it can be the slightest touch and its a pole on the floor… and yes I know not all stops are a disobedience – it was a generalisation !!!!!

The whole VAT on entries ruling (don’t get me started again) which seems to be a free for all needs looking at.

I don’t think pre-entries is a good idea…. unless it’s a 3 day show, but I do think there has to be some ruling for late entries… people just turning up and thinking they can enter 3 when there is 2 left to go !!! ha ha

More clarification on the word Amateur in relation to amateur classes – im sick of going to shows to jump in such classes and finding people competing in them who make a living from riding other peoples horses (what I call a professional)… just cause they don’t have a graded horse jumping big classes means they are still able to jump in them.

Last one, I think all Ponies should jump in juniors and not seniors… we all know a horse aint going to beat a pony unless its Pegasus… I just find it unfair when the pop up from time to time !!!!!

rant over !!!
grin.gif
 
I don't like pre entry, much prefer entry on the day. If the weather is rubbish, the horse is lame, the lorry won't start, you can't get out of bed..... none of it matters as you won't lose money if you don't go.

The Hand and Wales and West now have a link on their website which tells you in realtime the number of entries and how many have jumped - no more phone calls to secretaries.

I *think* when a centre runs an Intro show it gets given x number of day tickets to give away. One of our local centres sells Day Tickets at the price that a centre buys them for - this was £3, not sure if that has gone up.
 
[ QUOTE ]

The Hand and Wales and West now have a link on their website which tells you in realtime the number of entries and how many have jumped - no more phone calls to secretaries.


[/ QUOTE ]

Good system if you are near the internet - problem comes when you're at the yard getting horses ready to go to show and nowhere near a computer and then takes forever to load internet on your mobile so quicker to ring show centre instead.

re vat on entries - yes agree this is a minefield and no set ruling from bsja as some show centres are vat registered and some are not
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cazzy, if anything - please please I beg you to tell them NOBODY likes the newcomers/1.10m open rule!! It does NOT work and just puts people off entering because they have to wait around. Also, tell them their membership fees are way too high... (perhaps I am pushing it!). AND they should definately offer reduced day tickets if the rider is already a BSJA member.

[/ QUOTE ]


Can you be more specific why you don't like it.
I know different show centres run this class differently.
For instance we would normally have over 30 in this class so split it into 2 to start with and run them concurrently. The newcomers horses jump 1st and after their jump off (if not 2 phase) we give the arena a quick harrow while the judges run off results sheets and we give rosettes/prize money out from the secretary's which means no waiting around hopefully for the competitors. It also means you can jump the same horse in both classes.
If a show centre runs it as a joint class then there would be less than 30 in the class so shouldn't have to wait too long for rosettes and you would be in jump off anyway.
The main reason they brought in the new rule was that at many shows newcomers horses were getting their double clears but the open horses were winning all the money and the newcomers people complained.

I agree about the 3 refusals for b/n and disc classes. I think that with novice/young green horses you sometimes need that extra lifeline!

Good suggestion about the reduced day ticket for registered members - always worth asking the show organiser if they have any free tickets as we got some sent through last year to give to people to use at our shows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cazzy,

As i understand it, you cannot run a combined Newcomers/1.10m Open in anything other than a Progressive Schedule (i.e where the biggest class is a Newcomers/1.10m Open). I know from experience that you run the classes as separate but with a combined course walk and prize giving...and that is fine...but you are the exception in our area in that you always attract enough entries to make this worthwhile. Other venues (Golden Cross, Royal Leisure etc...) do NOT run the 1.10m Open...so if you want to jump bigger than 1.05m (on an Open horse) with a warm-up you have to jump the 1.05m Open, wait around for an hour or so, then jump (usually) the 1.20m Open. Golden Cross do throw in a 1.15m Open in these circumstances but you still end up waiting around for the Newcomers in between. I just don't see the point in insisting that the Newcomers and 1.10m open MUST be separated when the Foxhunter and 1.20m Open can be combined
tongue.gif


On the pre-entries front...i fell foul of your ruling 3 years ago (before i realised that you had to pre-enter at Pyecombe) but since then have always managed to make the effort to enter in advance if i know i want to jump at your place. i'm not sure i'd want to do that everywhere though as it is often nice to make the decision on the morning. Not great for the show organisers though i admit
smile.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top