Apizz2019
Well-Known Member
I've seen, in recent weeks, many a debate about whether to pat or not to pat.
Views anyone?
Views anyone?
To pat or not to pat?
- Thread starter Apizz2019
- Start date
humblepie
Well-Known Member
I am in the pat gently camp!
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I favour a neck rub/scratch over patting, which can get overly physical and more like a whack on the neck.
SEL
Well-Known Member
The horse knows your intent - we really do over think things at times!!
JBM
Well-Known Member
difference between pat and smack
I pat
You shouldn’t smack
I pat
You shouldn’t smack
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
When you see a lot of 'top' riders doing this, their 'pat' is more like a slap on the neck. You can see the horse cringing away oftentimes. A gentle pat closer to a caress would be okay, but most horses would probably prefer a scratch, as it emulates the feeling of when they groom each other. My horses all like a scratch on the neck or withers.
Of course there will be certain figures on social media *ahem* who are so caught up in their own ego that they have made the subject a crusade on their rights as a rider, with no regard to if their horses actually like it or not.
*puts certain vet who I don't actually follow on block because I can't take the nonsense popping up on my feed anymore*
Of course there will be certain figures on social media *ahem* who are so caught up in their own ego that they have made the subject a crusade on their rights as a rider, with no regard to if their horses actually like it or not.
*puts certain vet who I don't actually follow on block because I can't take the nonsense popping up on my feed anymore*
Apizz2019
Well-Known Member
It was certain vet talking about it that prompted my question. It appears to be a fiery debate and opposing opinions are shut down quickly.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about the excessive patting we see, which I see as more of a slap.
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
A scratch on the neck is the sort of thing horses do to each other and appear to enjoy, while there is nothing in horse behaviour which equates to a pat
We humans see a pat as a nice thing to do to a horse. I have no idea what horses make of it
We humans see a pat as a nice thing to do to a horse. I have no idea what horses make of it
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
If you watch most horses when you pat them they are quite startled. Much better, imho to stroke, or possibly scratch
Kunoichi73
Beware... My Plants...
I've always tried to scratch, since reading a book on horse behavior when I was a child.
The force of the pats that some of the top riders give after a competition round really upset me.
The force of the pats that some of the top riders give after a competition round really upset me.
9tails
Well-Known Member
When your hand is coming in fast from 2 feet away it's a wallop. A pat starts about 3 inches away.
Flowerofthefen
Well-Known Member
I pat gently or rub withers. I once did a dressage test on a 4yo exracer, first time from home, outdoors. He was brilliant, so I gave him a good pat when we had finished ( read that as survived!). I had a comment on my sheet from the judge saying perhaps I could consider giving the horse a scratch rather than a pat!! This was several years ago!
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
Before we start fannying about worrying about this lets get rid of electric spurs, the videos of riders hitting their horses around the head/whipping repeatedly and nothing happening, overtight nosebands and blue tongues - facing such a big battle, I think you need to be careful not to undermine yourself by adding in things which are really of no consequence eg: a one off pat on a horses neck after a good round.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Please no whataboutery.
It’s perfectly valid to discuss patting.
It’s perfectly valid to discuss patting.
Apizz2019
Well-Known Member
I think anything and everything we do with our horses is under scrutiny, more so than it's ever been. And that can only be a good thing with regards to all of the things you mention.
I do wonder how far is too far though, and what might we be doing that is now considered abuse/cruelty. It seems to be a new thing every week.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's whataboutery, it's undermining your own argument and allowing people to think you're being OTT eg: PETA, we cannot argue that they have a valid fight and started on the basis of valid arguments, they undermined themselves by starting on about using phrases like 'two birds one stone' and they can easily now be tagged as 'oh just PETA being hysterical again'. The same has happened with a multitude of huge movements, which I won't name as I don't intend my post to be inflammatory or derail into other arguments.
Nasicus
Well-Known Member
The question of patting vs stroking has been around for ages, certainly isn't a new thing.
Some of the 'patting' out there seems to be more of an outright slapping. The sound of it is sharp enough on the ears, let alone on the skin of a sweaty/slick horse. It wouldn't be acceptable on the ground, so why is it in the saddle?
Some of the 'patting' out there seems to be more of an outright slapping. The sound of it is sharp enough on the ears, let alone on the skin of a sweaty/slick horse. It wouldn't be acceptable on the ground, so why is it in the saddle?
Peglo
Well-Known Member
My haffie that came from Italy startled when I patted her when I first got her. She had no idea what I was doing. I was used to my TB who loved a pat (probably from her racing years) so I now stroke or scratch.
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Apizz2019
Well-Known Member
You're right, it isn't a new thing but appears to be the next argument on social media, which poised my question.
Each to their own. I know what my preference is, what I feel is the right thing, and what I've been encouraged to do from a young age.
SOS
Well-Known Member
Regardless of whether it is a pat or scratch, did anyone have drilled into them at pony club that you always do it across the horses neck? So right hand to left side of horses neck. Theory was that if they whack their head up it will hit your arm not your face which is leaning towards them.
Can’t say I have seen much happen to people patting/scratching without their arm crossed over. But I still think about it a lot!
Can’t say I have seen much happen to people patting/scratching without their arm crossed over. But I still think about it a lot!
humblepie
Well-Known Member
No I don't remember that one but you can see the theory.
Thinking about my "patting", I think quite often it is a pat/rub type thing, particularly if I am on him in a class and it is a sort of re-assurance pat/rub. So it starts as a pat as in putting hand on neck, then goes into bit of a rub. That is seeming to be a bit over technical though. He does get pats out hacking and they will be pat pats......but gentle....
stangs
Well-Known Member
This.
I don’t like the vigorous patting that comes across more like a slap, but most horses get conditioned to view patting as a positive given that a release of all pressure will usually follow said patting. So does it really matter that it’s not “natural”?
Equally, I’m aware of the research on scratching encouraging relaxed behaviour but the research I know of involved scratching for a minute which, realistically, no one is doing when they thank a horse post dressage test or SJ round or whatever. And I can’t imagine a two second scratch has a statistically significant effect on the horse’s state.
As long as your horse doesn’t show any signs of discomfort, I really don’t see how scratching/stroking/patting can make any difference.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
Horses can be conditioned to not fear patting and see it as a weird thing humans do. They could potentially also be conditioned to see it as a positive end to pressure etc. But it is an entirely human behaviour they have to learn and decode, so just stroke or scratch them 
If you're not hitting them, I don't think it's the biggest problem. But it would probably make more sense to give them a reward in their own language.
If you're not hitting them, I don't think it's the biggest problem. But it would probably make more sense to give them a reward in their own language.
Fransurrey
Well-Known Member
I've always been a rough scratcher, rather than a patter. When excited or elated, it's easy for a pat to become a thump/whack. I'm sure we've all been in situations when some overenthusiastic nitwit has come to pat you on the back and nearly sent you flying in a flurry of whatthefuckery.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I pat.
Funnily enough only yesterday meeting up with a horsey friend on holiday we were talking about previous horses we'd owned and I said one of my regrets was that my 5 year old never had many pats of me as he used to try my patience.
I think he knew I never really liked him and looking back I wish I'd tried wish I'd tried harder with him but he had such big shoes to fill following the death of my previous horse, we never gelled with each other.
So when I had Bailey I was always patting her.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
It depends on the horse Sky who is a thug loves a decent pat but gentler more reserved horse prefer scratching I tend to scratch the mane to reassure .
Patting is something horses learn means they are being good .
Patting is something horses learn means they are being good .
stangs
Well-Known Member
Okay, so the prey animal goes jumping over coloured sticks in response to the sensation of pressure on their sides, mouth, and back, caused by the inexplicable movements of the predator sat on top of them who earlier picked up their feet and put unnatural things on their backs and mouth and loaded said flight animal into a small dark box which moves at tens of miles per hour, and that's all fine - but patting is where expecting horses to learn to accept human behaviour goes too far?But it is an entirely human behaviour they have to learn and decode, so just stroke or scratch them
Equi
Well-Known Member
I scratch and rub. I loathe seeing riders (esp top level) practically taking the horses neck off after a good round. I don’t think it hurts the horse but I don’t imagine it feels particularly nice having a large muscle that is sweaty, tense and overworked banged. I also don’t imagine it feels nice on the humans hand either.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
Not where it "goes too far", but I do agree that all the above is also inherently unnatural to horses.
supertramp
Well-Known Member
Im not a rough patter, but follow up the pat with "good man" in a voice he recognises as having done the right thing. its bit of a drawn out "good man," and even gets him a wither scratch at the same time.