To scope or not to scope...

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Dizzle

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What would you say are the main symptoms of stomach ulcers? Would you scope a horse that had the following:
-Aggressive to be touched around the belly area
-Agressive around food
-Crib bites
-Girthy

But that was in good condition despite not being fed huge amounts of feed (ad-lib forage and a small fibre based meal twice a day)

Also, if the horse was scoped and no ulcers were found. Could you still claim for this on your insurance?
 
Get it scoped. A horse doesn't have to be skinny to suffer from them. It's like anything, there are different symptons and your horse doesn't have to show all of them to be suffering from them.

Mine wouldn't be brushed around the tummy or tacked/rugged up, aggressive and she had grade fours. If it isn't then at least you can rule it out!

As for insurance it depends on what your excess is and how good an insurance company you have. It costs around £250. When I had my horse done my insurance company, SEIB, payed for it and the following 6 weeks of gastro guard.
 
I'm with NFU, I think my excess is about £140.

I'm due a tax rebate in the near future, I might speak to my vet in the mean time.

He did used to be a poor doer and was very very agressive when fed cereals, he's getting better but is still 'not right'.

Has anyone scoped and not found ulcers and if so what happens with insurance, would he still have an exclusion?
 
Get it scoped. As long as it is being scoped on the vet's advice and NOT for anything behavioural (honestly you ask!!) then you should be covered. Sounds very very much like ulcers to me. Condition has nothing to do with ulcers - my horse looked in full bloom. It's just the acid and pain in movement as it sloshes over those ulcers!
 
Mimi2610 said:
Get it scoped. A horse doesn't have to be skinny to suffer from them. It's like anything, there are different symptons and your horse doesn't have to show all of them to be suffering from them.

Mine wouldn't be brushed around the tummy or tacked/rugged up, aggressive and she had grade fours. If it isn't then at least you can rule it out!

As for insurance it depends on what your excess is and how good an insurance company you have. It costs around £250. When I had my horse done my insurance company, SEIB, payed for it and the following 6 weeks of gastro guard.
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My horse had the same symptoms for much lower grade ulcers. My treatment including the month's gard was £1500
 
Before going down the scoping route maybe have a word with these people
http://www.succeedfbt.com/howfbthelps.asp

The following copied from the website
Knowing if your horse is suffering from ulcers or other digestive tract conditions is the first step in managing its GI health. The SUCCEED® Equine Fecal Blood Test™ will help your veterinarian in diagnosing any underlying conditions or other serious GI health conditions, including both gastric and colonic ulcers.
 
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YasandCrystal said:
Condition has nothing to do with ulcers - my horse looked in full bloom. It's just the acid and pain in movement as it sloshes over those ulcers!
Click to expand...

Condition has a lot to do with ulcers actually. Some horses don't lose condition some do because of the ulcers but to say condition has nothing to do with them is a load of rubbish.

OP I'd get her scoped, assuming it's the vets advice it should be covered in the insurance, might be worth ringing your company up to find out.
 
I'd try some simple self help first. Coligone is the next best thing to Magic Fairy Dust and is specifically designed for stressy neds prone to ulcers. It is very similar to human Gaviscon. I'd start with a liquid tube straight down his throat then start a loading dose of the peppermint powder to his feeds, dropping down to the maintenance dose according to the instructions. It truly is a miracle worker. Few years back my veteran developed a nasty attack of gassy colic and I started Coligone immediately after the vets Buscopan had settled his tum. Any time anything new is due to happen to him eg change fields, vets etc, he goes on to 3 days of Coligone but there are TBs on my yard who are on it permanently. It's not cheap to buy a big peppermint tub but it lasts yonks and works out at pence per day.
 
I had another horse scoped because she showed discomfort getting groomed/tacked up. Turned out her pelvis was out but I didn't bother going down the insurance route and just paid up for her.

The one with grade fours had the most fantastic shine on her coat but she starts with a very mild colic and her stride shortens/loose the jump in her paces. She is a TB and will never look porky but if she is suffering from them then she holds herself and looks a bit tucked up.

Hope you get it sorted.
 
winterwood said:
Before going down the scoping route maybe have a word with these people
http://www.succeedfbt.com/howfbthelps.asp

The following copied from the website
Knowing if your horse is suffering from ulcers or other digestive tract conditions is the first step in managing its GI health. The SUCCEED® Equine Fecal Blood Test™ will help your veterinarian in diagnosing any underlying conditions or other serious GI health conditions, including both gastric and colonic ulcers.
Click to expand...

I’d rather speak to my vet to be honest, these tests don’t prove anything I’ve known of horses that have scoped positive for ulcers come up as clear on these tests, not to mention the wording of the documentation with the test is very badly worded, anyone would think they had a product to sell to the ulcer ridden horses... (me? Synical..?) if the tests were useful then the majority of vets would stock them...

I might though try him on some coligone, £50 for a month’s worth isn’t too bad.

My other idea is that I’m going to do some desensitising work with being touched on his stomach area, it could be remembered pain and bad manners so will hit it from these two angles and if no improvement later in the summer I’ll speak to the vet.
 
Have you adjusted the diet on the assumption that the horse could have ulcers? That could be the answer initially, before going down the scoping route. Also a simple blood test will tell you if the horse has a high white cell count, which again is an indicator of ulcers.

That would be my preferred choice, before scoping.

And of course, if the horse is insured, any veterinary cost incurred can be claimed for.
 
Kokopelli said:
Condition has a lot to do with ulcers actually. Some horses don't lose condition some do because of the ulcers but to say condition has nothing to do with them is a load of rubbish.

OP I'd get her scoped, assuming it's the vets advice it should be covered in the insurance, might be worth ringing your company up to find out.
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I actually meant (maybe worded it badly) that it's not necesarily a telltale sign, Just because a horse looks to be in good condition it does not mean that it CAN'T have ulcers! My horse looked in wonderful condition.
 
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The only 100% reliable diagnostic tool is scoping (not all ulcers bleed), the only cure is proton pump inhibitors (omaprazol - gastrogard for horses, generic over the counter medicine for humans), sometimes used with antibiotics. Supplements may reduce the symptoms so they are sub-clinical, which is great in terms of performance, not so great in terms of the horse's long-term health. Supplements are most useful after the ulcers have been cured, to prevent recurrence.

Yes, I'd get your horse scoped, and would expect insurance to pay out. I would not bother with changing or trying anything else first, I'd want a definitive diagnosis personally.
 
My horse was scoped yesterday. She was displaying girthy behaviour and not wanting to go forwards under saddle, tail swishing etc. She is also in fab condition and does not weave, crib bite etc. Decided the best thing to do was get a definate answer rather than messing about any longer and the scope confirmed ulcers. She's now on Gastrogard for a month at a full syringe per day then 1/4 dose for another month. I would advise just to get it done. At least you'll know for sure then :)
 
very very interesting post, thankls for starting it. my boy is displaying exactly the same symptoms. I've got vet coming out to him in the next week for general check up and was debating whether to ask for him to be scoped but think i'll give them a call and say need it done definately! thanks!
 
amymay said:
Have you adjusted the diet on the assumption that the horse could have ulcers? That could be the answer initially, before going down the scoping route. Also a simple blood test will tell you if the horse has a high white cell count, which again is an indicator of ulcers.

That would be my preferred choice, before scoping.

And of course, if the horse is insured, any veterinary cost incurred can be claimed for.
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Diet is currently high fibre as anything else either sends him loopy or grumpy..
 
Your horse has to have no food for 16 hours and no water for 8 before they are scoped otherwise the vet won't be able to see anything. I have to say that I found it really quite interesting watching it and to see the difference between the one with ulcers and the one without.
 
Don't waste your money on 'self help' remedies. Get horse scoped. It took me nearly 2 years to persuade my vet to agree to my horse being scoped as he 'looked all right'! But I knew he wasn't! He had severe gastric ulceration. He was treated with GastroGard & I have had him on NeighLox ever since. My insurers (E&L) paid up, no problem.
 
Hi there. My mare is currently undergoing treatment for ulcers. She had not only lost condition off her back end and neck she also had temper tantrums. I have a brilliant vet who has a mobile gastroscopy machine so it was done on our yard. She had to be starved for at least 12/15 hours (no food/water and definitely no bedding left in stable). She was found to have grade 2 ulcers in the Margo Plicatus - these apparently caused the temper bouts (they are so painful) and she also was found to have grade 3 ulcers in the Plylorus (exit from stomach). The latter were not seen initally as her stomach was full of foamy saliva so they could have been grade 4 or 5 originally. They were found when she was scoped again at the end of a month's course of Gastrogard. These would have more effect on her condition. They have to be treated with antibiotics as bacteria sit in the ulcers at this end of the stomach and she is also on her second month of gastrogard. The stomach wall is quite yellow with ulcers and not a healthy pink. She is no longer allowed anything molassed or sugary - this will be for life and will always have to have something available to eat. We have switched to Simple Systems. I am with NFU and they have already paid the first part of the claim. Any claim is usually only valid for 1 year, which is worth bearing in mind. My mare is visibly improving. Would also suggest that you check out www.equinegastriculcers.co.uk. Good luck and don't give up pestering your vet.
 
SpottedCat said:
The only 100% reliable diagnostic tool is scoping (not all ulcers bleed), the only cure is proton pump inhibitors (omaprazol - gastrogard for horses, generic over the counter medicine for humans), sometimes used with antibiotics. Supplements may reduce the symptoms so they are sub-clinical, which is great in terms of performance, not so great in terms of the horse's long-term health. Supplements are most useful after the ulcers have been cured, to prevent recurrence.

Yes, I'd get your horse scoped, and would expect insurance to pay out. I would not bother with changing or trying anything else first, I'd want a definitive diagnosis personally.
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agree with this, my mare had the test (my vet was testing it) and it came back negative, she was also on a high fibre diet!!!
 
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