To sell or not to sell? Long!

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CeeCee

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Hoping you guys can offer some words of advice and a shoulder to cry on!

I have a 7 year old TB mare (never raced) which I’ve owned for around 18 months, before purchasing her she had a accident with an electric fence and had a few months off unfortunately her owner then had a car accident and resulted in her just being lunged for 3 months. (around 5 months off ridden work altogether I believe) She’s previously hunted and done the odd ODE, she’s super XC so bold and brave and would eventually like to event with her, our problem is the flatwork, it’s taken an awfully long time to get her to accept the contact and obviously some days are better than others, I realise after having time out of work it would take a while to improve the flatwork, but I just feel I’m getting nowhere,

We compete in prelim classes (unaff) with scores ranging from 53-69%, most of the comments are about her being tense and needs to be more accepting of the contact which I totally agree with, the tenseness is a huge problem and some days cantering her is awful, she’ll tense and hollow, i’ll bounce, head goes up and away we go!

Have I not given it enough time? I thought buy now she’d be strong enough to carry herself if even for a short while. I have had saddle fitted and checked, back and teeth checked, she’s worked 5/6 days a week and try to vary her work between schooling, hacking, pessoa and small jumps. We also have a flatwork lesson every week. What am i doing wrong!?

I’m so desperate to fulfil her potential and feel completely useless, my confidence in my riding ability is so low, she’s a complete poppet to do in every other way and worry that if i do sell her with a such a limited budget I’ll be shooting myself in the foot.

Should I persevere, sell or just take some time off do some hacking and chill out a bit and try to build some sort of bond?

:)
 
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She sounds like a smasher, and if all that's letting her down is her flat work then there's not much wrong with her. I certainly wouldn't sell.

How long have you had the trainer you are currently using??

And other than schooling, what do you do with her?
 
I'm going through a similar thing at the moment, had new loan horse for 6 weeks, he needs work in the school and we're getting there but slowly. Have dentist and physio out next week.

I wouldn't sell her at all. It will take time, does she accept the contact in both walk and trot? Do you have lessons? Have you tried working her long and low for a good half an hour in every session, really getting her through and swinging and taking the contact down and then, slowly picking her back up? Rather than sell her I'd be more inclined if you really do want faster results to just send her to a professional (dressage) for a couple of weeks. Yes it might cost you £200-300 but they will be able to get her up to scratch and more balanced and can then guide you on maintaining it.

It will take time, 18 months isn't THAT long. However, yes, if it were me I would want to be seeing some improvement by now.

I ask again, do you have lessons?
 
If there is no underlying problem, this is worth persevering with, scores of 69% show that when she is going well you can do well.

I would stress less about the dressage and get on with some jumping, go to a few events and enjoy them, you may not get placed if the dressage holds you back but a DC will often pull you up a surprising amount.

How much help do you have, often a few sessions with a trainer that will get on can make a huge difference to how the horse goes, sometimes they just need someone else on them to show them the way forward.
 
I have been the same situation with mine. I am very lucky to have 2 horses, but recently my son has taken up riding and have bought him a pony too. All of a sudden his riding is taking precedence, and am finding it hard enough to keep my two fit, let alone compete.

After many hours of thought, I decided to advertise the more sellable out of the two, but as soon as I got the first enquiry, I knew he was too good to let go. Also as he is only 15hh I decided that he would be ideal for my son after he outgrows the pony, so can justify keeping him.

I am fortunate as have now found a lady in our village who wants a sensible horse to hack out a few times a week, so is keeping him ticking over for me, whilst I concentrate on my son and the other horse. She even contributes £50 per month, so helps out that way too.

Although my circumstances are different, I have been in the situation of advertising horses fo sale a couple of times. The one I sold and was happy with the decision, so knew it was the right thing deep down. Sometimes punting an ad out just helps you make the decision, as makes you realise what you might lose....!

Good luck and personally I think you should keep, and just enjoy what she is good at. I bought a lovely cob to show, but didn't have much sucess as he was too lightweight (or not fat enough!!), so took him hunting instead - he loves it and is fab, so have just swopped careers!
 
Thanks for the replys!

amymay, I know what you mean, on paper she's everything i've ever wanted but something just isn't there, we don't "click", i've been with this trainer for about 6 months, I think even she is getting a little worried as to why we are not improving more.

Summerxstarsx Yes I have a flatwork lesson every week, we start every session, with lots of stretching on a long rein, changes of rein, cirlces sepentines, transitions, leg yielding in and out of a circle etc etc, some days she'll be better and will start to relax in walk and trot but after i've cantered i've lost at all.

be positive, good name ;), Yes i agree with getting someone else to ride her, my old trainer did get on a few times, tbh she didnt really go much better. Will see if current trainer would get on for me.
 
Sidney said:
I have been the same situation with mine. I am very lucky to have 2 horses, but recently my son has taken up riding and have bought him a pony too. All of a sudden his riding is taking precedence, and am finding it hard enough to keep my two fit, let alone compete.

After many hours of thought, I decided to advertise the more sellable out of the two, but as soon as I got the first enquiry, I knew he was too good to let go. Also as he is only 15hh I decided that he would be ideal for my son after he outgrows the pony, so can justify keeping him.

I am fortunate as have now found a lady in our village who wants a sensible horse to hack out a few times a week, so is keeping him ticking over for me, whilst I concentrate on my son and the other horse. She even contributes £50 per month, so helps out that way too.

Although my circumstances are different, I have been in the situation of advertising horses fo sale a couple of times. The one I sold and was happy with the decision, so knew it was the right thing deep down. Sometimes punting an ad out just helps you make the decision, as makes you realise what you might lose....!

Good luck and personally I think you should keep, and just enjoy what she is good at. I bought a lovely cob to show, but didn't have much sucess as he was too lightweight (or not fat enough!!), so took him hunting instead - he loves it and is fab, so have just swopped careers!
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Thanks Sydney, I also have two, my boy is another TB that i re-trained off the track 8 years ago, unfortunately he will not load happily and made competing a nightmare, i love him to bits and he is in a "forever" home, hence this new mare was really meant to do the job, i just can't afford to start collecting horse's! I mentioned to her old owner that i was selling and she said she would be interested in having her back but not at the price i wanted, after i just felt awful, had the worst nights sleep!
 
What bit is she ridden in? Have you tried a bit change? Have you also tried a change of saddle - it may fit on paper but the horse may not like it!
 
CeeCee said:
Sorry amymay, as in original post i vary her work between schooling, hacking, pessoa and small jumps 5/6 days a week.
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Appols.

Well remember, much of your 'schooling' work can be done when out hacking - and it may just take the pressure off.
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
What bit is she ridden in? Have you tried a bit change? Have you also tried a change of saddle - it may fit on paper but the horse may not like it!
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I ride her in a loose ring french link snaffle, so pretty basic, i did try a hanging cheek for a while but no change, she has a dressage and GP saddle and goes no differently in either of the saddles, both have been professionally fitted.
 
amymay said:
Appols.

Well remember, much of your 'schooling' work can be done when out hacking - and it may just take the pressure off.
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Totally agree, I will ask for the contact at all times and do the odd bit of yielding etc, I’ve tried to do more canter work out on the plains to strengthen her without the pressure of the school enviroment. more of the same?
 
My little ginger pony was a bugger for a consistent contact until I tried her in a mullen mouth which she loved, it's stiller in the mouth so may be worth a try?
 
Agree with bbh about possible bit or saddle change. I felt that we'd got a bit stuck (pardon pun!) with the contact issues and my instructor recommended a different bit which has worked wonders (Pelham double reins - not everyone's choice but my boy goes really nicely in it and is much softer, and so am I !).

I also wonder if the trainer is right for you? Id expect lots of improvement in that period. But it does sound like you've made some great improvements and those aren't bad scores at all so your hard work is paying off!

Like the others, I'd suggest sticking with it if you like her and she's good in all other respects. Depends how much you love your flatwork and if it's holding you back in the other phases. Every horse has issues as you probably know so they all need work on various aspects. It's more a case of finding one that ticks the most boxes and the rest can be worked on.

Saying that, I'm a bit of a giver upper. Love my boys to bits but schooling ain't his thing and he's a bit of a wuss at xc, so I've just bought another to add to the very expensive collection !
 
I was having similar issues with my 5 yr old TB. Yesterday I rode her in an old Heather Moffatt Flexion saddle belonging to a friend. She was like riding a different horse. Really working through her back, seeking the contact, basculing over a jump. Previously she was tense, head up, totally hollow. Saddle/back/teeth all checked - fine.
I'm now saving my pennies for a HM saddle :)
 
I dont think 18 months is that long and she sounds good in other ways so i would persevere. Perhaps take the prssure of her and school her out hacking as someone else has suggested? One of mine will not school and he gets lots of schooling out hacking. Can do all sorts of tricks and doesnt even know he is doing it - I call it stealth schooling :D

However, you do mention that you don't 'click', which is a slightly different issue. I had a lovely WB who was a joy to handle and own but became gradually worse to school and jump and was downright dangerous to hack. Whilst I absolutely adored him, we never 'clicked' when ridden. I tried EVERYTHING and after 3 years, I sent him to my trainer and she couldn't get him to behave any better (all saddle/teeth/back issues were clear). By a stroke of luck he was seen by an ex-GP dressage rider who he clicked with and she bought him off me on the understanding I kept a very tiny share of him. That way he cannot be sold on willy-nilly. She just potters on him and he is happy and a different horse under saddle.

What I am trying to say in a long winded way is that although you have alot of options in front of you and I think you will be fine with a bit of a break, you will know in your heart of hearts if she isnt right for you. I will don my tin hat for this but as long as you have done everything you can and you still don't click, I don't think you should feel bad if you decide to move her on. Not everyone gets on with every horse.

Ask yourself - do I have fun with/on her? Good luck and I sympathise hugely with you.
 
Bernster said:
Agree with bbh about possible bit or saddle change. I felt that we'd got a bit stuck (pardon pun!) with the contact issues and my instructor recommended a different bit which has worked wonders (Pelham double reins - not everyone's choice but my boy goes really nicely in it and is much softer, and so am I !).

I also wonder if the trainer is right for you? Id expect lots of improvement in that period. But it does sound like you've made some great improvements and those aren't bad scores at all so your hard work is paying off!

Like the others, I'd suggest sticking with it if you like her and she's good in all other respects. Depends how much you love your flatwork and if it's holding you back in the other phases. Every horse has issues as you probably know so they all need work on various aspects. It's more a case of finding one that ticks the most boxes and the rest can be worked on.

Saying that, I'm a bit of a giver upper. Love my boys to bits but schooling ain't his thing and he's a bit of a wuss at xc, so I've just bought another to add to the very expensive collection !
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I know what you mean and like i say she's such a good girl and you can't teach braveness over XC which she has buckets of. If i sell am i going to end up with even worse problems, i just feel so down about it.

Improvement is slow, some days are better than others but i do think she should be more consistent by now.
 
PercyMum said:
I dont think 18 months is that long and she sounds good in other ways so i would persevere. Perhaps take the prssure of her and school her out hacking as someone else has suggested? One of mine will not school and he gets lots of schooling out hacking. Can do all sorts of tricks and doesnt even know he is doing it - I call it stealth schooling :D

However, you do mention that you don't 'click', which is a slightly different issue. I had a lovely WB who was a joy to handle and own but became gradually worse to school and jump and was downright dangerous to hack. Whilst I absolutely adored him, we never 'clicked' when ridden. I tried EVERYTHING and after 3 years, I sent him to my trainer and she couldn't get him to behave any better (all saddle/teeth/back issues were clear). By a stroke of luck he was seen by an ex-GP dressage rider who he clicked with and she bought him off me on the understanding I kept a very tiny share of him. That way he cannot be sold on willy-nilly. She just potters on him and he is happy and a different horse under saddle.

What I am trying to say in a long winded way is that although you have alot of options in front of you and I think you will be fine with a bit of a break, you will know in your heart of hearts if she isnt right for you. I will don my tin hat for this but as long as you have done everything you can and you still don't click, I don't think you should feel bad if you decide to move her on. Not everyone gets on with every horse.

Ask yourself - do I have fun with/on her? Good luck and I sympathise hugely with you.
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Nail on the head! She really does have the potential, flashes of greatness as someone once said but i wonder if i'm the right person the bring it out, i think maybe she senses my desperation! I feel i've put so much hard work in and if i sell and with a small budget end up with something at square one.
 
Rather than sell I really would consider trying to school her a bit more out hacking and SAVE over the next couple of months and then try and send her to a pro for a couple of weeks intense schooling. You'll have to do your research obviously but if you were to go down this route I would pick someone who is able to help you with her for a bit after too.

I really wouldn't sell if she is safe sane and you do have fun on her. 69% in a prelim is good, but obviously different judges and all that. As you say, you may end up not being able to buy anything better anyway and better the devil you know than one you don't.

I honestly would get someone else on her and see what she goes like for them.
 
CeeCee said:
Nail on the head! She really does have the potential, flashes of greatness as someone once said but i wonder if i'm the right person the bring it out, i think maybe she senses my desperation! I feel i've put so much hard work in and if i sell and with a small budget end up with something at square one.
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You sound EXACTLY in the position I was last year after I sold my big lad. He really was THE most talented horse in the world. I had alot of people try and sort him and he was worse with everyone except the lady I eventually part-sold him to. I think you do end up getting desperate to succeed and perhaps they do sense it. I ended up with very little money from the Big Man but didnt care as he was in the perfect home. I used that very little money to buy a skinny 16hh Chestnut TB mare that was an ex-racer and noone in their right mind would touch with a barge pole. She cost me £800 and bar the current issues she may/may not have (nothing that could have been foreseen) she is the bravest, boldest most talented and heart-warming thing I have ever sat on.

Thats not to say somebody else getting on your horse might pick up something that makes a massive difference. Again, I think you will know deep down if that will bethe case.

You sound like a responsible and caring owner/rider. I completely understand why your confidence is in tatters. You feel like its your fault and everything you try doesnt work and you feel worse. You have to either change tack completely - ie forget the schooling and chill out or you make a clean start. You will find something else that will make you smile and feel good. Promise ;)
 
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Your horse sounds very similar to my daughter's 14.2 only. She is a fantastic jumper - SJ and x country but unfortunately dressage is not her strength! My daughter is resigned now to the fact that it is no good doing one day events as dressage is not great! She now concentrates on SJ, Hunter trials and arena eventing.
 
I'm EXACTLY where you are.

Little WB mare, super-talented, movement to die for, bags of scope, can't get the b*gger on a contact for love nor bags of carrots. I get the same scores and comments as you as unaff prelim level. She's also an angel to do on the ground, but can be silly and spooky in the school (basically she's taking the Michael). I've found myself sitting on the horse in the middle of the arena sobbing because I just can't make it work. Trot is patchy at best, and canter is utterly shambolic. I feel like I've never sat on a horse in my life some days.

So I've started tinkering. I changed her loose ring lozenge KK for a loose ring lozenge Happy Mouth, which made her a little more accepting. But currently I'm schooling her in a Nathe 2 ring gag. It's only got very soft poll action, but a little bit more than a hanging cheek, and gives her that boundary to stop her chucking her head up and going nasty hollow, and is super soft on her mouth. I think also the fixed cheek just gives her a corridor to work through so that she feels some security in the contact - sometimes I think loose rings, while being lovely and soft and independent one side of the other, can be confusing for a horse which has never really learned what a secure contact feels like (like mine).

I've had her saddle checked again recently - it needed narrowing and re-flocking, but she has gained a lot of muscle since I got her, so fine.

Major thing, I had the chiropractor come out. She's identified some problem areas and done some 'adjustments' and the mare is SO, SO much better for it. She's softer and finds lateral flexion miles easier, and canter is beginning to improve. I changed the bit at the same time as the first chiro visit, so it's hard to say which had the more impact, but the chiro is definitely working because she's just more accepting of just about everything!

Also, I have a local dressage bod ride her once a week (she's also said she can make her feel like she can't ride, which is comforting, in a way!). It's nice to have someone else's perspective and input, and also their support when you feel like you're at the end of your rope.

So those are the things I've tried. Since she's really a showjumper, I'm looking on the flatwork as a means to an end really. I know that you can't compete dressage in a gag, but it might be something just to set you on the right path...

This is like what I've been using - except mine has a double joint and a lozenge in the middle (this pic is upside down!)

http://www.horsebitbank.com/nathe-2-ring-gag-336.phtml

Good luck, I know how soul-destroying this can be. But your mare sounds lovely in every other way, it's worth some more tinkering before you call it quits I reckon :) x
 
Thank you all so much for your kind words and suggestions, i'm amazed how many of you are in the same position!

I think i will give us some time to chill and bond, take the pressure off a bit and prehaps have a play with some different bits, I'll also contact my trainer to come a ride her and see how that goes.

:)
 
Reg has taken 2.5 years to the point where he'll consistently do a 65% test (eventing, so scoring 35s now). When Al got him, for the first year their average dressage score was 48%. Last year it was 63%... It's taken hours of careful schooling working him into a consistent contact- mostly, it's just been ensuring Al sits correctly and is offering him a 100% consistent contact and rides him into it- but he's so worth it now.

It was awful at first and he'd do a llama impression and tense up and career about the arena... Now, he's pretty awesome :D
 
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