To shoe or not to shoe?

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SkipRat

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Apologies if this has been done to death but would really appreciate some advice/opinions/experiences. Will try to keep the background brief.......

My horse has been lame in front. First vet couldn't find anything wrong, farrier says he has laminitis so cue immediate deep bed, soaked hay etc etc. Book second opinion/x-rays with a different vet who did a very thorough examination and nerve blocked and declared not laminitis, x-rays not needed at this stage because the problems are down to bad shoeing :eek:

Vet took front shoes off at the time to get a better look and horse remains bare in front but still has backs on (is comfortable behind). The fronts came off four days ago and already he is no longer lame. Very sore, very careful on stones but almost sound on grass!

The vet said that if the farrier at the hospital shod him he's pretty sure he would be sound immediately. BUT would that not just be covering up the problem? My gut is telling me to leave the shoes off and get a barefoot person to look at him, pull the backs too and let nature take it's course.

What would you do? Has anyone else had a similar problem?

Thanks for reading if you made it this far :D
 
So my question is what was bad about the shoeing?
You say about nerve blocking but your posts suggest this ruled lami out, did blocking the foot lead to increased soundness?
My second thought is where are us hoof geeks supposed to get our fixes from if no one posts photos!

My last is I think at the very least most can benefit from time out of shoes regardless so long as the owner is up for it, it wouldn't be a bad time of year to do so (apart from frozen ground issues), are you up for being patient?
Oh and I wouldn't necessarily get someone out too quick, better to leave them for a few weeks before trimming IME.
 
How long has the horse been lame?. How did the lameness develop? EG corners first, tripping first? How did the second vet conclude that it can't possibly be laminitis from nerve blocks? Did the horse block sound to the foot? Is it bilateral?

Depending on these questions, I think I'd probably advise leaving off the shoes of the horse is sound without them and you don't want to stud. But then I'm a confirmed barefooter :)
 
Vet said the shoes were the wrong shape? He took photographs to show the hospital farrier before taking them off and told me to keep them to show the farrier too. He was sound when blocked.

I'm totally up for being patient, especially as he is so much more comfortable already. If this really is down to bad shoeing I'm devastated at the thought that I've done this to him :(

Will try and post some pics for you!
 
He's been lame for a month, just came in from the field lame 5 days after being shod. I don't think the second vet concluded not laminitis from the blocks. He was sound on the blocked foot, lame on the other. Am trying to upload some photos but keep getting an error message :mad:
 
easiest way to do pics on here is to have them on a 3rd party server so facebook/photobucket and copy the links Im afraid.

If sound on the blocked foot and lame on the other I assume we are saying he is actually lame on both?

I'd be inclined to leave them off ;)
 
I've yet to own a horse I would prefer to shoe over developing its own strong feet. Good luck. Let's see some good pics. Check out the Rockley blog to see how to take them and to educate yourself :)
 
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Very helpful to me, thank you :)
I just feel a bit naughty if I go against the vet but the fact that he's sound in the field only four days after the shoes came off speaks for itself...........
 
Yes I'd leave them off, get some thrush treatment (I like red horse products myself) on the frogs and let those feet sort themselves out a bit :)
 
slightly more helpfully you copy and paste the image code and add tags (removing spaces either side but for demo sake)

 
:D yes you are!

What product would you recommend? And how bad are his feet? (the more pictures of good feet I look at the worse I feel :( )

Thank you so much for your help
 
SkipRat said:
Very helpful to me, thank you :)
I just feel a bit naughty if I go against the vet but the fact that he's sound in the field only four days after the shoes came off speaks for itself...........
Click to expand...

I went against my vet, he was adamant the mare needed pads and packing etc to simulate the frog - he did not like it when I said 'she has a frog, why do I need to put £160 worth of plastic and metal on to simulate what nature gave her!'
Due to insurance, I tried it once, she had them on for 3 weeks, she has been barefoot for 4yrs now and at 24 is still sound as a pound (original injury was a tear to the DDFT in the foot, she had never been lame before and I have owned her since she was rising 5)

I would suggest cleantrax to give his feet a real good clean then red horse field paste thereafter.
 
Don't feel bad about going against your vet, yes they do know a lot, but they are not infallible. Many haven't been shown the darkside that is barefoot.
 
SkipRat said:
I feel like I am about to cross over to the dark side :D
Thank you!
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You've reminded me I should send a thankyou and update to my vet who referred me to rockley (after me suggesting it lol) to say how much better he is, sound, in work, great feet. Trimmer out in march as i think his frogs have died over winter. Also not been trimmed since his last set of remedial shoes for his ddft December 2015, and before that not been trimmed since August 2013. So hopefully I'm recouping some of the vet bills since 2011 and also the cost of rockley :biggrin3: :biggrin3:
 
personally I have only had to use sole cleanse and hoof stuff as we have very minor issues, but I know others who like the field paste too :) I'm not sure they are that bad, hard to see off fore with the bedding ;) but I would always suggest treating at the start. I always found with Frank that he never got any smell etc but his frogs would stay in better nick if I treated once a week or so than if I didn't.

If we are going to discuss how bad we would need better pics I'm afraid, aka rockley style which means getting the camera on the ground parallel to the foot etc, however there will have been plenty worse.

This is what we started with, post the prescribed bar shoe treatment and yes it was the shoeing prior to that that made him lame

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oh actually the frog on the good foot ended up worse
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SF stop showing off about your not requiring a trim boy :p, I think finally nowt he is doing next to nothing Frank has stopped growing his feet like mad and I am not there to appreciate the not having to trim ever couple of weeks!

Which reminds me ycbm were you experimenting trimming on one of yours?
 
Well, he might need a trim, but the trimmer hasn't been since July!

I think his frogs have disappeared due to the wet (he's out 24/7 with access to field shelter in hard standing) and lack of roadwork. He is being worked in the school 3 or so times a week, with a 10-20 in hand roadwalk every week. Does that sound like a sensible comclusion?!

Sorry op!
 
My welsh C has been trimmed once since I bought her nearly 5 years ago. She is rock crunching sound to the point you can trot over sharp stones on tarmac without her bothering (it could be more her idea to do that than mine!).

My Irish cob has not been trimmed for 2.5 years. She is also rock crunching and in the busiest periods would grow a full new hoof in 12 weeks.

My Welsh A I just sold had also only been trimmed once in 5 years. Again she was rock crunching.

These ponies easily cope with around 100km per week on rough stoney terrain and I think I am on around number 12 in terms of taking them BF.

The best bit is nearly every vet will ask "what great feet your horses have, who is your farrier?" At that point I wear my smuggest expression and say I don't have one.

My new horse is a 17hh WB pansy. How well we will do with him BF, I don't yet know but there is only one way to find out. Slightly further on in the journey is my daughter's new mini WB type sports pony. So far so good with him.

Horses have been walking on their own feet for a long time. Give him a go. Just tell the vet he's gone sound straight away so you are giving him a break from shoeing. Treat the frogs and follow the Rockley method as far as you can. Walking him on smooth tarmac for a short time every day and building that up gradually would be my preference. If he gets sore walk less or get boots. Walking on tarmac let's him trim his own feet how he needs them.
 
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ester said:
SF stop showing off about your not requiring a trim boy :p, I think finally nowt he is doing next to nothing Frank has stopped growing his feet like mad and I am not there to appreciate the not having to trim ever couple of weeks!

Which reminds me ycbm were you experimenting trimming on one of yours?
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I was. I was about to do a second update on that thread but I'll do it here instead.

I've shown a picture before, to help someone out, of his horrible feet. Small narrow frogs that never reach the floor, narrow heels, long toe. Sound as a bell and straight moving. I trimmed his toes back after being challenged by a pro trimmer and the result was fascinating. His heels began to open, his feet became round. They looked superb. But he also began to stand toe in. Then the outside heels grew much higher than the inside ones, so I leveled those. Then his movement changed so that he was so close in front that if he'd been shod I would have had to put overreach boots on him to stop him damaging himself. I stopped trimming him and he is almost back moving straight again. I'll take odd looking feet over bad movement every time.

I've apologised to him and given him a bucket of oats for trying to tell him I know better than he does about what his feet should look like :D

I won't ever be 'correcting' a self trimming a sound horse again.
 
SkipRat said:
Very helpful to me, thank you :)
I just feel a bit naughty if I go against the vet but the fact that he's sound in the field only four days after the shoes came off speaks for itself...........
Click to expand...

My mare had her shoes off before xmas for an Mri scan and hasn't had them back on. She has significant tears in both front feet tendons and the vet recommended remedial shoeing (wedges). However I was adamant it was worth trying barefoot (after lots of research on here!) especially as the week between shoes off and scan was the soundest she had been for months. Took the opportunity to swap to a different farrier too :)
We are only a couple of months in, but it is great to see her slowly swapping from landing toe first to flat, and being a lot happier in herself. I should really take photos of her feet but am worried I'll start obsessing... :)
Good luck with your horse.
 
Thank you so much everyone, I really appreciate all your comments and experiences.

I have decided to take him barefoot and see how we go.........

Will order some products for thrush today but I have scrubbed his feet out with hibiscrub this morning and put some iodine on as it's what I had to hand, will that do any good in the meantime?

He is sore everywhere except the field and on mats but I haven't tried him in the school yet. I have measured for boots this morning so should I order boots and start walking him on the road in those? Should I get pads to start with and if so which ones would be best?

Sorry for more questions!
 
I'm another who went against the vet and farrier and took my horse's shoes off. My thread is a bit further down, but we are 1 year without shoes now and she's sound and happy :).

I started walking and riding in boots to start with, but we've now progressed to not needing them though she still feels the sharp stones :(. I did get pads for her boots, and it would probably be best to buy the same ones as the boots or you may need to cut them to fit your boot shape, though my pads remained pretty much unused :o.
 
I don't have a lot of experience with thrush (once, luckily when vet was there to X-ray!) but hibiscrub and iodine was what he recommended. It cleared up in a couple of days of using them.
 
UPDATE: He is sound on the road!!!! :)

Been too scared to try until today but having decided we're going for bare I bit the bullet and took him out in hand.

Does this mean I don't need boots for now? I literally went 2 minutes out and 2 minutes back and he was fine until we got back on the stony yard again. It was so nice to see him moving so confidently again!

So what next in terms of walking, 5 minutes? Ten? I don't want to do too much too soon....
 
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