To shoe or not to shoe..

Michen

Michen

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Sorry all, another one of these posts! I have a 5 year old Connemara who last summer was diagnosed with mild pedal bone bruising via MRI. I removed the shoes in September and he was not touched by a farrier until a few weeks ago, he grew fairly wonky feet (though he is slightly pigeon toed) and the farrier levelled them up a little- happily he remained sound.

He is about as rock crunching as you could hope for, occasionally gimps on a sharp stone on hard surface but he has fantastic frogs and does very well. That said, he has had 2/3 occasions in the last 6 months where he has gone footy for a few days- either after running around on frozen ground or on one occasion where he jogged on a road hack I'd boxed him out too for 2 hours and overdid it somewhat. His feet always look short, certainly not need any trimming as such, but I imagine he will start to grow more hoof now we are coming into spring.

He is, however, useless in mud and boggy conditions. He is very sure footed and balanced but he will do anything to avoid mud, he really slows down and "minces" his way over it- unlikely my last connie who was fantastic in all goings. I can't say whether he'd be any better in shoes as I've never had him in them when its been winter. He is about to start eventing with his pro rider and I'm undecided as to whether to shoe him so I can also stud- he has his first hunter trial at the end of the month and I'm concerned that if its slightly deep in places (I'd withdraw if it was overly deep) and he has a slip.. being a young horse he may quickly loose confidence. I was hoping to have him out xc schooling again beforehand to see how he fairs but it's looking unlikely to happy now with timings.

I guess my question is, do I run the risk and keep him barefoot, or shoe so I can stud which may give him more confidence in less than (his idea) of perfect ground... or would it not make a difference?

Recent pic of the little dude for anyone interested in the ugly ducklings transformation!

 
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I've never used them or have any idea about how effective they are but could glue on shoes be an option? So you can give him studs and grip for the event but not compromise his foot structure with nails. In your position I would at least ask my farrier if they were a viable option.

As I say I've only heard of them have no experience of pros and cons so may well be talking out my bottom. :lol: but thought I'd throw it out there.

Lovely horse.
 
I'm definitely not an expert in barefoot but do have two of mine barefoot. I'm of the opinion that when. Arefoot the horse is far more aware of where they're putting their feet and the ground underfoot. When one of mine was shod she did stride out a lot more over all terrain, but when barefoot she would adjust her stride to slipping grass/deep mud/ or a downwards slope. I would say that the likelihood your horse is changing stride is more to do with age and balance. Yes shoes might make the horse seem more forwards and confident but only because the shoes isn't allowing the horse to perceive the change of terrain and adjust. I suppose it's completely up to you, but I also can't see how a 1cm stud can really prevent a 500kg animal from slipping. Just my opinion... but I know my mare, who used to be very unsure in slippy mud when a youngster barefoot, is now incredibly foot sure schooling on a slope, still barefoot. I put it down to age, strength and balance. :)
 
Personally, if you are jumping on non artificial surfaces and want to try and be competitive / not risk confidence loss I’d always show and stud.

You could easily shoe over summer and barefoot over winter
 
ElliePippa said:
I'm definitely not an expert in barefoot but do have two of mine barefoot. I'm of the opinion that when. Arefoot the horse is far more aware of where they're putting their feet and the ground underfoot. When one of mine was shod she did stride out a lot more over all terrain, but when barefoot she would adjust her stride to slipping grass/deep mud/ or a downwards slope. I would say that the likelihood your horse is changing stride is more to do with age and balance. Yes shoes might make the horse seem more forwards and confident but only because the shoes isn't allowing the horse to perceive the change of terrain and adjust. I suppose it's completely up to you, but I also can't see how a 1cm stud can really prevent a 500kg animal from slipping. Just my opinion... but I know my mare, who used to be very unsure in slippy mud when a youngster barefoot, is now incredibly foot sure schooling on a slope, still barefoot. I put it down to age, strength and balance. :)
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The strange thing with him is that he is so balanced, I'd canter him downhill on a greasy grass slope and trust him to keep us upright more than any horse I've ever ridden. And he's confident in that scenario, add in any kind of boggy/muddy ground and he minces over it like it's hot coals!
 
ester said:
I'd shoe to stud when you need to for the season.
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I guess my concern then is shoes-more concussion-foot has had bruising, would this create an issue again... especially with increased trot/fitness work on the roads etc. Hmmm.

Also maybe he likes mostly growing his own foot and that's what he needed all along hence the bruising etc etc etc stress stress stress!!
 
Funnily enough, it doesn't surprise me that you have a concern :p.

I think if you want to plan a season of competition education for him you will probably have to accept that a fair quantity of that won't happen if you keep him unshod. I don't think I would ever do a round of show jumps on grass, on hard ground early morning when the grass is wet for instance. Only you know if you think the ground will affect his confidence jumping at this point, and I do think that is an important consideration while he is learning.
 
I don't really have an opinion on whether to shoe or not, but my experience with my own horse has been that he remains cautious if the ground underneath is slippery, regardless of whether I ride bare, booted or shod. I'm not 100% sure that this isn't partially a learned behaviour, as I rode the first 5 years I had him exclusively bare/booted, and boots can be slippier in certain conditions. Maybe he learned to be cautious on slippery ground, and I'm sure I would have reinforced that somewhat by also always being cautious when not sure of the footing. On the other hand, he's been shod 6-8 months each summer for the past 5 years, which I should think would be plenty of time to pick up new habits (and I certainly feel more confident about his grip in mud when shod rather than booted), but he still slows down/picks his way through boggy ground. My friend's mare on the other hand stomps over anything and everything regardless, and always has (she was ridden bare in her early years, then shod).

If yours is really balanced naturally and just has an aversion to mud, I'm not sure how much of a difference shoes might make. It's not likely to set you back much (in terms of barefoot performance) to give shoes a try for a cycle or two and see if you gain anything from it.
 
If it were me I'd take it steady round the first HT and see how he goes. It's unlikely you're going out to win at the first one if you've not had much opportunity to school - so won't do any harm if he has to come back to a trot?
 
ester said:
Funnily enough, it doesn't surprise me that you have a concern :p.

I think if you want to plan a season of competition education for him you will probably have to accept that a fair quantity of that won't happen if you keep him unshod. I don't think I would ever do a round of show jumps on grass, on hard ground early morning when the grass is wet for instance. Only you know if you think the ground will affect his confidence jumping at this point, and I do think that is an important consideration while he is learning.
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I suppose as well, if I shoe, I'd need to shoe all around... my eventing days seem a long time ago but you can't just stud in front I would think?
 
Michen said:
I suppose as well, if I shoe, I'd need to shoe all around... my eventing days seem a long time ago but you can't just stud in front I would think?
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Well you can but would defeat point. You either shoe and stud all round or you take your chances bare.

FWIW, I’ve known 3 horses fall BE on the flat. All were shod infront and bare behind.
 
Is the dislike of mud only when ridden or is it when turned out too? Only asking cos I have a connie who is barefoot and he will try everything to avoid mud or puddles when ridden but is much better turned out in the field although he does pick his way through deep mud very carefully. I think he's unsure what the surface under the mud is going to be like and that's what causes him to be cautious.
 
On a young horse still building confidence in possibly slippy conditions I would always shoe to stud, just in case.

If his feet go down hill you can always take them off again and have another think.
 
i`ve seen a horse slip over on grass and go completely down while walking , so would
so i would never risk it.
 
tristar said:
i`ve seen a horse slip over on grass and go completely down while walking , so would
so i would never risk it.
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Well that could happen out hacking! He’d have more grip barefoot than shoes without studs for every day riding
 
amymay said:
Yes but he's not going to be hacking, he's going to be going across the country.
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aware of that, my point is that a fall can happen any time when walking. I am not concerned about XC from a slipping point of view (just whether he would back off as he dislikes mud), dressage and SJ are where a horse is most like to have an issue without studs.
 
I did think to say that a horse had slipped over in walk so they'd never risk it (presumably said horse was unshod) a slightly strange comment, never risk what? walking an unshod horse on grass?

IHW it is interesting you say about the front shoes only, I wonder if the fact that the fronts have grip and the backs keep travelling mean they slip up more frequently than if all four hooves slip.

I too wouldn't have many worries about low level XC unshod, the same as I don't worry hunting (when having no shoes to lose can be a distinct advantage) show jumping can be trickier though. It's doable (especially if you are eventing so don't need to jump off) but I do think trickier especially when you have a youngster who might not always be in balance.
 
Yes I agree - sj on grass is where I really worry about grip.

So he has good grip but minces in mud? Sorry, I hadn't really understood the question. Does he still mince in mud when he has hoof boots on, or haven't you tried?
 
I have a friend who went round Badminton Grassroots with a BF horse, and regularly events BE100, so I wouldn't be hugely concerned about eventing without shoes. I'd second what someone else has said - it will be his first time out, so why not just take it steady and see how he goes?
 
DabDab said:
Yes I agree - sj on grass is where I really worry about grip.

So he has good grip but minces in mud? Sorry, I hadn't really understood the question. Does he still mince in mud when he has hoof boots on, or haven't you tried?
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He minces but he’s sure footed.. does that make sense lol? It does in my head! He’s very sure footed but it’s more he seems to have a dislike of mud.. hes just not the kind of horse to walk through it at the same pace- even if it’s on a totally level bit of ground. I’m probably explaining this really badly!

I guess what I’m saying is there’s two elements to why I’m considering shoeing a) would he be more confident in mud with shoes on (unknown unless I shoe and hack him out) and b) though he is well balanced and sure footed on slippery grass out hacking he’s still a baby and has not had much experience jumping on grass and it’s unknown how a slip may affect his confidence.

I’ve never tried hoof boots as we have several really steep grassy hills to navigate that I think with hoof boots could be legal, I thought about trying the wasyboot back country but hoof boutique didn’t think they’d suit his hoof shape.
 
I'd be tempted to write off the first hunter trial as a schooling session and go barefoot to see how he coped but with no pressure on to win or be placed. Then you will know for next time whether to shoe and stud or leave bare footed! If you aren't being competative in the first one you (your rider) is much ore likely to notice the small changes in the horses attitude and adapt rather than try to push on for a time regardless.
 
5 is still fairly young and he'll still be changing shape and developing his balance. If you're happy it's not because he's sore then I'd be tempted to see how he adapts as he gets fitter and stronger and gains experience on slightly deeper ground. Is he the same about mud in his field?

Tbh he could also just be one of "those" horses who is determined they are actually a Princess in equine form that cant possibly get wet or muddy.

My ridiculous Welsh D HATES wet, slippy deep ground. He is barefoot as most of you know but he was equally pathetic when shod and if anything has better grip on wet / deep ground without his shoes if I'm honest. When he is concentrating on having a little race with one of his friends or (even better) out hunting he conveniently forgets that bogs are horrid and likes to march along quite happily overtaking everyone *facepalm*. He has gotten a little better as years have gone by but he still tries to spin in the gateway and run out of the field when the gateway is wet and muddy (he basically has a little panic about getting stuck I think).

That said a friend of mine has a barefoot eventer who never quite got over having her studs taken away (but she'd been shod for years and was used to them if that makes sense?). Same friend has taken her other horse to Badminton Grassroots and went clear XC (a few down in SJ but that wasn't down to being barefoot) and all his eventing education was done barefoot (he was a tad hopeless at first and she used to struggle to get the times whilst he was learning but she has trouble keeping him slow enough sometimes now!). I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if his first few runs aren't the best that could just be down to his age and inexperience not down to what he does or doesn't have on his feet
 
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Yeah that makes sense. Basically you have managed to buy a connemara who is a bit of a pansy - novel if nothing else :D

I would be surprised if shoes make any difference to his dislike of mud. The grip thing depends a lot on his resilience to be able to deal emotionally with a bit of slipping, his sure footedness and how much you want to risk changing stuff without really being able to try it before going to an event
 
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