To those using or planning to use breaking/schooling livery

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Jinx94

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As mentioned on a previous post, in the future I would like to have my own breaking/schooling yard.

I've seen a lot of posts about people having issues with breaking/schooling livery as the horse is not being treated/worked as they are paying for it to be, so, would you be more likely to use a yard that films each session and emails the files at the end of each week along with a report?
 
Jinx94 said:
As mentioned on a previous post, in the future I would like to have my own breaking/schooling yard.

I've seen a lot of posts about people having issues with breaking/schooling livery as the horse is not being treated/worked as they are paying for it to be, so, would you be more likely to use a yard that films each session and emails the files at the end of each week along with a report?
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Yes, that would have been very helpful in my case! Weekly reports etc. are definitely the way to go. Easy to identify when any problems occur then!
 
Jinx94 said:
As mentioned on a previous post, in the future I would like to have my own breaking/schooling yard.

I've seen a lot of posts about people having issues with breaking/schooling livery as the horse is not being treated/worked as they are paying for it to be, so, would you be more likely to use a yard that films each session and emails the files at the end of each week along with a report?
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Dangerous territory - you're a braver man than most to even consider it
 
DabDab said:
Dangerous territory - you're a braver man than most to even consider it
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How come? The likelihood of being told that I'm getting everything wrong?

I understand that different people do things differently (and that compiling all of this each week could be very time consuming!). Really interested now! Never thought I'd ever be referred to (even in jest) as "brave" :o
 
Goodness me, the work involved in that. It's a lovely idea in theory but practically I'm not sure it would work. Weekly written reports were something that we used to do but to be honest the extra work load involved In it was massive so now settle for a weekly phone call or text if they want it. These days owners generally leave us to it and rarely if we have a problem we give them a call, explain the situation, invite them over and discuss the options. Owners also know that they can come over unannounced at any time at all, which we feel gives them security that we have nothing to hide.

Plus if some owners saw how tricky a particular horse can be to start I'm not sure they'd actually want to get on it. It's our job as starters of youngsters to get the animals to a required stage so it is safe, sane and reAsonable enough for the owner to climb on board and continue their horses career, there is usually a reason why people don't want to do it themselves and thus send their horse away.
 
It could be worth considering, I would probably be more inclined to use such a service.
To be completely honest though - and don't get me wrong, this is not meant as a dig at anyone and I know it's not always possible - I do think that owners need to be visiting these places more often and if possible even watching sessions.

I have first hand experience of a breaking yard where the horses would come in to a lovely made up stable... pretty soon the horse would be turfed out into a paddock for a couple of weeks. When ""work" was done on horses they were tacked up and left for hours to "get used to tack" - as in literally never had a saddle on to left fully tacked up in ill fitting tack might I add for hours! - then out in the field for a bit more, then ridden a couple of times on a lunge, a couple of times off a lunge and then "hacked" a few minutes up the hacking track before being sent home as broken in and ridden away. There was no gradual lean on to sit on to walked with a rider and then on to attempting ridden on the lunge. For the majority of the time the horses I saw there to be broken in were out in the fields doing nothing.

Most of the time the owners didn't come to visit during the process or if they did it was an announced visit and there would be a scramble to get the horse into a stable and looking vaguely presentable for them.

It's pretty shocking how people can get away with that sort of thing and charge extortionate amounts for it but I suppose if you aren't there all the time you don't get to see the full extrent of what goes on (or doesn't) :(
 
sandi_84 said:
It could be worth considering, I would probably be more inclined to use such a service.
To be completely honest though - and don't get me wrong, this is not meant as a dig at anyone and I know it's not always possible - I do think that owners need to be visiting these places more often and if possible even watching sessions.

I have first hand experience of a breaking yard where the horses would come in to a lovely made up stable... pretty soon the horse would be turfed out into a paddock for a couple of weeks. When ""work" was done on horses they were tacked up and left for hours to "get used to tack" - as in literally never had a saddle on to left fully tacked up in ill fitting tack might I add for hours! - then out in the field for a bit more, then ridden a couple of times on a lunge, a couple of times off a lunge and then "hacked" a few minutes up the hacking track before being sent home as broken in and ridden away. There was no gradual lean on to sit on to walked with a rider and then on to attempting ridden on the lunge. For the majority of the time the horses I saw there to be broken in were out in the fields doing nothing.

Most of the time the owners didn't come to visit during the process or if they did it was an announced visit and there would be a scramble to get the horse into a stable and looking vaguely presentable for them.

It's pretty shocking how people can get away with that sort of thing and charge extortionate amounts for it but I suppose if you aren't there all the time you don't get to see the full extrent of what goes on (or doesn't) :(
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Firstly, 100% completely agree, people considering sending their animals away should visit more often before saying a definite yes, get a feel for the people who would be dealing with their pride and joy and if something doesn't feel right, walk away. It's your horse, your money.

Secondly, how the hell can people do that? I wouldn't be able to do it, what happens if said horse goes home after being told it hacks out, gets on the road and bolts? Who is responsible? Makes me so cross, appreciate it happens all over the country but I couldn't sleep at night knowing through my own negligence of providing a sub standard service and elaborating on what a horse has done whilst in my care that somebody could end up seriously hurt.
 
Sandi_84, how big were these yards? Surely if they hadn't taken on more horses than they could manage, doing things properly and thoroughly shouldn't be a problem?

I agree that owners should watch sessions, but as you said, it may not always be possible - especially if the horse has been moved miles away!

I really worry about youngsters not having enough to keep their brains active (not meaning that they should be worked every minute of the day!!) the potential for bad habits to develop is so bad! Met a stunning 3 year old warmblood today, he only gets ridden once a week and rarely walked out - he box walks almost constantly :(
 
The wife said:
Firstly, 100% completely agree, people considering sending their animals away should visit more often before saying a definite yes, get a feel for the people who would be dealing with their pride and joy and if something doesn't feel right, walk away. It's your horse, your money.

Secondly, how the hell can people do that? I wouldn't be able to do it, what happens if said horse goes home after being told it hacks out, gets on the road and bolts? Who is responsible? Makes me so cross, appreciate it happens all over the country but I couldn't sleep at night knowing through my own negligence of providing a sub standard service and elaborating on what a horse has done whilst in my care that somebody could end up seriously hurt.
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It's awful isn't it?! They do some other dodgy things there too and so far they've got away with it :( One of these days they'll get found out but unfortunately I think someone is going to end up getting hurt for that to happen :( I'm the same as you, I couldn't let something come into my care without doing the best job I could and giving it the best care I could and if an accident occured because I had failed in my duty I would never forgive myself!

Jinx94 said:
Sandi_84, how big were these yards? Surely if they hadn't taken on more horses than they could manage, doing things properly and thoroughly shouldn't be a problem?

I agree that owners should watch sessions, but as you said, it may not always be possible - especially if the horse has been moved miles away!

I really worry about youngsters not having enough to keep their brains active (not meaning that they should be worked every minute of the day!!) the potential for bad habits to develop is so bad! Met a stunning 3 year old warmblood today, he only gets ridden once a week and rarely walked out - he box walks almost constantly :(
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It was a busy place at the weekends, quite a few horses but they only did breaking every now and then as a little side earner. I think it was partly down to not enough staff (tbh all the horses could have had much better care in general but it wasn't neglect worthy if you know what I mean) but mostly due to greedyness and lazyness combined - hence having not enough staff :rolleyes:

I felt really sorry for the owners but mostly for the horses, there was one that kept bucking (I couldn't blame it it's mind was totally blown!) and their solution was to keep hitting it with the crop till it complied and then carry on what they were doing... pushing it too fast! :(
 
Maybe this is just me.. but I wouldn't want to spend more that 20-30 minutes in a school with a youngster a day :/ Surely owners would prefer that it took longer and we worked out all the kinks than hammering out some half-a*sed job? But I guess that would only be manageable if costs were kept as low as possible :/
 
IME most owners want it done as cheaply and quickly as possible. What they don't realise is that the horse will come back as suitable for only an experienced rider and not the average standard rider that often owns it. The breaker yards I know of work the horses too much, to get the job done quickly. 20min lunging twice a day on an unfit horse, that's never done a days work in its life, is too much IMO. The horses get fed up and come back home a few weeks later as fully broken, but also knowing every vice going to avoid work and their average standard riders can't cope with it.

OP the only way I'd send a horse to a breaker yard is if the sessions were videoed. I expect the extra time and therefore costs incurred would put a lot of people off though.
 
What I gather from my horse's previous owner's account of her being sent away for backing is that she was left in 24/7 other than when she was to be worked, and when she was worked the horse AND rider would be literally dripping with sweat from the sheer intensity of the session. No wonder she was school sour at 5! The vet has commented on her teeth asking if she cribs... to my knowledge this is the only time she has ever been stabled, and I also suspect she has some sort of ulcers. Don't get me wrong, the last owner was absolutely lovely and we keep in touch quite regularly, she has in fact had some further bad experiences with this yard since as she kept a horse there for a short time and they'd tell her horse had been turned out when she clearly hadn't, and were generally very rough and unfair with her.

Having heard this horror story (although my mare is fine now, no lasting trauma!) I would be very careful about getting a place recommended with many references, and saving up for somewhere really good (and allowing as much time as needed). Backing sets a horse up for life!

Reputation and openness are probably the two main things, so I think doing a video/pics about once a week would be a great idea. I don't really see why it would be that much more work, you might just need another person to hold the camera, but there would probably be someone on the ground most of the time anyway. Writing an email to clients too, it could just be a general overview like 'xx is taking to it very well and just needs to develop confidence' or 'xx is still a little nervous so sessions will be done little and often' it's just professional when you are charging for a service.

I would never have the confidence to back a horse myself, I just don't think I am physically fit enough and I would get nervous, but I would like to be very involved so would probably prefer to have someone come to me, or find someone who is happy for me to be there for pretty much every session!
 
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