To those with experience of bum high horses

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emfen1305

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I have two issues which I think are interdependent and need some advice!

I have a bum high cob, he is 8 so has probably stopped growing but could do with muscling up and some topline. We are currently working on engaging his hind as in typical cob fashion he just pulls himself along and falls into any upward transition (he also does an excellent sliding stop in downward transitions which we are also working on). Finally manged to get him to lift his shoulder and step through on both reins for a short time so have a bit of progress but know it is going to be a long road as he just reverts into pulling as soon as he gets chance. I am having his teeth checked just to make sure the fixing isn't pain related. Are there any groundwork exercises I can try to help? I have looked into ST but any other ideas are great. We are hacking out and I have upped my lessons to two a week so that I am not left unsupervised when schooling and ruin the hard work!

The second issue is the saddle which I think is going to hinder our shoulder lifting progress - I had a brand new one fitted 3 weeks ago and then last night I noticed it lifting at the back when my instructor was riding which means it has dropped at the front. He doesn't look like he's changed shape that much in the last 3 weeks as the saddle is still sitting in the dip behind his wither but since it was fitted I have put him on hay, he's had the physio and a been doing lots of stretching to encourage him to engage his core as well as some form of exercise 6 days a week so maybe it has done more than I thought The saddle fitter is coming back on Saturday as she thinks it may need flocking at the front but I paid a lot of money for the saddle and made sure the tree was suitable for wide flat backed cobs and now I am worried it isn't going to fit as he changes shape. It isn't slipping or moving forward so hopefully flocking will be the answer!

Any other schooling advice for those with very on the forehand beasts is very much appreciated :)
 
A photo of his back showing the dip would be useful, I would be rather concerned from your description that the saddle is being fitted into the dip which should not be there once he muscles up properly, if it sits in it then the saddle will stop him muscling and the dip may become more pronounced, the saddle should be wide enough to allow him to fill it in and for now should have a pad to suit that can be gradually reduced as he muscles up.
Hope that makes sense and is not totally on the wrong track with how he looks, otherwise all his work should be encouraging the use of his core, steady walking and some trotting up hills, any work over poles, raised or on the ground, ridden or in hand will be useful.
 
Saddle fit on mine is a nightmare - I have 4 saddles sitting at home that need to go on ebay and each one has been professionally fitted and later found to be causing issues. She isn't massively bum high (also 8), but enough that she needs a much shorter saddle than fitters want to put on her. She has big moving shoulders like a lot of heavy types do, and that tends to push the saddle back if the fitting hasn't taken into account how much movement there is.

I have had pads under the saddle for a couple of years now to ensure she has room to muscle up, but you need to keep adjusting them to stop the saddle bouncing around. If your fitter does some flocking then make sure you ride for them (esp canter) because if he has changed shape then you might need more than just a bit of flocking.

I've got saddler #3 out on Thurs - what's the betting that the only saddle that will fit my short backed, big shouldered, wide and tetchy mare is the v expensive one?......
 
flocking on a new saddle will settle so they will always need rechecking.
bum high really rather depends on the rest of him, F is bum high and a bit straight through the hind legs but otherwise fairly good confo and the bum high has never been a problem.
The other one is bum high with very narrow shoulders and a few other confo issues and both saddle fit and working correctly have been problematic for her.
 
after many years of trying to get a saddle to fit a cob type, bum high, sprung rib, large should and a wither.................so normal cob saddles to flat because of wither.......normal non cob saddles no wide enough due to wide wither etc etc.....the horse went from a medium wide when five to almost out the wintec wide gullets......i went treeless

sorted out bum high, wide wither and large shoulder.............various types out there some are better than others and more importantly some fit different type of horses than others
 
lavinia Mitchell sorted out my saddle issues my horse has a dipped back with a forward girth groove and is croup high, large shoulders and a huge ribcage he also had some wastage behind the shoulder due to a too tight fitting saddle, I bought one of her saddles which was too wide but it needs to be which she fitted with a shim pad and he needed quite a few shims at the start, 4 years down the line and he has a very thin shim either side only at the front his back has changed beyond belief he has a lovely even top line and his back doesn't look half as dipped as it was.
 
be positive said:
A photo of his back showing the dip would be useful, I would be rather concerned from your description that the saddle is being fitted into the dip which should not be there once he muscles up properly, if it sits in it then the saddle will stop him muscling and the dip may become more pronounced, the saddle should be wide enough to allow him to fill it in and for now should have a pad to suit that can be gradually reduced as he muscles up.
Hope that makes sense and is not totally on the wrong track with how he looks, otherwise all his work should be encouraging the use of his core, steady walking and some trotting up hills, any work over poles, raised or on the ground, ridden or in hand will be useful.
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I think the saddle has been fitted into the dip, it was fitted with a thin saddlepad and was a great fit 3 weeks ago but think the flocking as settled now (as ester mentioned) and as it has dropped a little at the front. I might try a pad under it tonight to see if it sits more level.

These are the best photos I have of his back so far - he isn't stood the best in them so not sure how helpful they will be and they were from a couple of weeks ago, though I don't think he looks that different!

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My connie is a little bum high and very powerful in his hind end which, if not ridden tactfully can push him onto his forehand in canter. His trot work is coming on a treat.

Schooling wise I'd do lots of raised poles, cavaletti and bounce exercises, raised bounces on a corner which encourages them to keep their shoulders up and balance themselves really help mine.

Last night I did another exercise as mine has a tendency to nap towards the gate and his shoulder somehow always finds this direction the most desirable direction to travel in, but my exercise last night worked WONDERS! Basically it was:

Start trotting up the long side, reach one end (doesn't matter which), and make a U-Turn back down the 3/4 line. Halt 1/4 way down, few rein back steps, trot, Halt 3/4 way down, few rein back steps, canter on which ever leg takes you back on your U-Turn towards the nearest fence. Sounds simple but it's super hard to keep the horse straight and his shoulders beneath you through the whole exercise. His canter back up the long side improved massively as he was truly straight and was carrying himself due to the U-Turn helping those first few steps of canter become super balanced <3
 
alexomahony said:
My connie is a little bum high and very powerful in his hind end which, if not ridden tactfully can push him onto his forehand in canter. His trot work is coming on a treat.

Schooling wise I'd do lots of raised poles, cavaletti and bounce exercises, raised bounces on a corner which encourages them to keep their shoulders up and balance themselves really help mine.

Last night I did another exercise as mine has a tendency to nap towards the gate and his shoulder somehow always finds this direction the most desirable direction to travel in, but my exercise last night worked WONDERS! Basically it was:

Start trotting up the long side, reach one end (doesn't matter which), and make a U-Turn back down the 3/4 line. Halt 1/4 way down, few rein back steps, trot, Halt 3/4 way down, few rein back steps, canter on which ever leg takes you back on your U-Turn towards the nearest fence. Sounds simple but it's super hard to keep the horse straight and his shoulders beneath you through the whole exercise. His canter back up the long side improved massively as he was truly straight and was carrying himself due to the U-Turn helping those first few steps of canter become super balanced <3
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The exercise sounds great, we are not cantering at the moment as is just makes the shoulder dropping worse as he just launches into it throwing me forward. Currently working on getting him just to stay up and straight so doing lots of very big circles only asking for trot with the inside leg when he is properly bending. I'd say 1/5 transitions are actually successful but it feels great when he gets it and then we have to make sure to stop before the his head does some sort of exorcist move!
 
He doesn't have a pronounced dip, which many do and that was my concern, but does lack some topline so I would usually prefer to pad out rather than flock at this stage, a new saddle usually needs reflocking after a couple of months anyway, as he loses some of the flab and gains muscle generally he will probably require another saddle check and you should find if you keep him fairly consistent in his weight that you don't have to make any real changes after that, other than maintenance.
 
be positive said:
He doesn't have a pronounced dip, which many do and that was my concern, but does lack some topline so I would usually prefer to pad out rather than flock at this stage, a new saddle usually needs reflocking after a couple of months anyway, as he loses some of the flab and gains muscle generally he will probably require another saddle check and you should find if you keep him fairly consistent in his weight that you don't have to make any real changes after that, other than maintenance.
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Would a sheepskin one do or better to get something that I can add shims to? I'll try the sheepskin half pad tonight to see if it levels it out a bit. I'm hoping the saddle will be OK generally though as I like it and it was expensive haha!
 
Try the sheepskin it should be fine as long as it doesn't lift the whole saddle too high, if it doesn't work you may need to use something thinner with shims.
 
I used the numed numah with memory foam and shims on my horse who moved bum high and sent the saddle up the neck I shimmed the front .
Tbh when a croup high horse is powering the saddle forward it’s very difficult to get it stay still has the saddle got a point strap I don’t like them but needs must and all that .
On a brighter note he may be moving more openly in the new saddle because he’s more comfortable that’s what mine did .
I have had my horse a year now and have done a lot and I mean a lot of training he now carry’s his saddles well and is moving up through the wither better and better all the time .
 
Bum high cobs are such a pain in the, well; bum! They were not designed to be riding horses, they are built to pull, which is what they revert to if not constantly asked back to their hocks. Having had one particularly beloved example who was a full hand higher at the croup than the wither, I can tell you that although she was a truly delightful horse, riding her was always a thorough workout, and she always wore a crupper.
 
Not wanting to detract from the saddle-fitting issue; just a suggestion, but you might like to think about bitting?

I ride my cob in a French Link Rugby Pelham and found that the best thing for him. Agree with poster above that you really have to get these horses off the leg and into the bridle, it can be such a PITA sometimes to get them going into the bridle and off the leg, but I did find this bit very helpful for him.

Snaffle was hopeless: for one thing he didn't respect it, but also flattened out and went "under" the movement; ditto a Waterford - he just poked his nose out in it, flattened out and tripped over himself.

With the French Link Rugby Pelham, you'll need to get another headpiece - and ideally someone who knows the fit of it and what it should look like. There's a lady on FB called the "Bit Fit Lady" or something, she I believe goes up and down the country - might be worth contacting her as she's probably got one you could try, plus other bits also that might suit your horse and which you can try. She has an excellent reputation.

I've got a youngster: also bum-high - gaarrrghhhh!! I must be mad to have got another one! ...... am hoping she might grow into herself (OK so a vain hope!!) - but TBH if you've got a really nice person, and they do their job, personally I can cope with a bit of comformation problem.
 
Goldenstar said:
I used the numed numah with memory foam and shims on my horse who moved bum high and sent the saddle up the neck I shimmed the front .
Tbh when a croup high horse is powering the saddle forward it&#8217;s very difficult to get it stay still has the saddle got a point strap I don&#8217;t like them but needs must and all that .
On a brighter note he may be moving more openly in the new saddle because he&#8217;s more comfortable that&#8217;s what mine did .
I have had my horse a year now and have done a lot and I mean a lot of training he now carry&#8217;s his saddles well and is moving up through the wither better and better all the time .
Click to expand...

I tried it with the sheepskin pad tonight, not to ride just to try on and it sat much leveller and didn't move at the back. I tried it without to compare and it is definitely tipping at the front. I did try with it on the 1st and 3rd strap and 1st and 4th and seemed more stable with both of them (had previously been on 2nd and 3rd). It's very early stages with the newbie and I am getting used to riding such a heavy cob type! I just want to make sure the saddle is comfy for him to be able to do the work!
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Not wanting to detract from the saddle-fitting issue; just a suggestion, but you might like to think about bitting?

I ride my cob in a French Link Rugby Pelham and found that the best thing for him. Agree with poster above that you really have to get these horses off the leg and into the bridle, it can be such a PITA sometimes to get them going into the bridle and off the leg, but I did find this bit very helpful for him.

Snaffle was hopeless: for one thing he didn't respect it, but also flattened out and went "under" the movement; ditto a Waterford - he just poked his nose out in it, flattened out and tripped over himself.

With the French Link Rugby Pelham, you'll need to get another headpiece - and ideally someone who knows the fit of it and what it should look like. There's a lady on FB called the "Bit Fit Lady" or something, she I believe goes up and down the country - might be worth contacting her as she's probably got one you could try, plus other bits also that might suit your horse and which you can try. She has an excellent reputation.

I've got a youngster: also bum-high - gaarrrghhhh!! I must be mad to have got another one! ...... am hoping she might grow into herself (OK so a vain hope!!) - but TBH if you've got a really nice person, and they do their job, personally I can cope with a bit of comformation problem.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I really don't like the current bit he is in (french link eggbutt snaffle) but I've only had him 5 weeks and didn't want to change too much when I first got him. I don't think he much likes it either. I've swapped into a loose ring sweet iron with a lozenge for now. I was considering a waterford actually I thought it would stop him from leaning. I was thinking of something ported or maybe an all singing all dancing NS. I didn't know about the bit fitting service, going to have a look! He's a very willing chap and once he gets it he is very genuine but just takes a while to get there, I don't mind putting in the work, just want to make sure I am doing the best by him!
 
As above, I find most heavy cobby types go much better in a Pelham or other curb action bit. They very often have fat tongues and fleshy bars, and this type of bit seems to suit them and helps to back them off the forehand.
 
emfen1305 said:
Thanks! I really don't like the current bit he is in (french link eggbutt snaffle) but I've only had him 5 weeks and didn't want to change too much when I first got him. I don't think he much likes it either. I've swapped into a loose ring sweet iron with a lozenge for now. I was considering a waterford actually I thought it would stop him from leaning. I was thinking of something ported or maybe an all singing all dancing NS. I didn't know about the bit fitting service, going to have a look! He's a very willing chap and once he gets it he is very genuine but just takes a while to get there, I don't mind putting in the work, just want to make sure I am doing the best by him!
Click to expand...

I tried my bum-high, 8yr old, forward leaning mare in a waterford for a couple of weeks and it made a huge difference. Taught her not to pull, softened her poll and brought her onto the bridle nicely. Now back in her lozenge snaffle and she's still going well.

We have a long way to go to get her balance better, stepping through etc and weight further back, but it was a great start...

PS Bit Fit lady was great when she visited our yard last year. Worth every penny!
 
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