to worm or not to worm??

[Crugeran Celt]

I always worm around this time of year and usually use equest promax. I have three miniatures and have wormed them with this before but I have now been told that this wormer can ge very dangerous for minus. So what does everyone else use for their minus?

 

[Gift Horse]

I don't have minis so can't comment, but I usually worm for tape in the Autumn.
This year I used the saliva test from Westgate along with the usual egg count and neither horse needed worming. I found it easy to use and it is reported to be reliable. Could you test and only worm if needed?

 

[Kezzabell2]

I gave it to my mini at the weekend and he's fine. Gave him 200ml

 

[Kezzabell2]

You should worm for tape worm after the first frost.

Worm counts don't pick up all worms

My vets give me a free count and always a pramox at this time of yr. No frost by mid Nov, you need to worm again in 13 weeks

 

[catembi]

Second testing first. I've just done a poo test for 'normal' worms on my mini (came back as no worms seen today) & got a saliva testing kit from Westgate yest, so will have a go at that tomo.

I got a very cute 7 month old miniature Shetland this week & didn't want to let her mix with my ex-racer until I'd tested her. I've had 10 years of zero worm counts & want to keep it that way.

T x

 

[Nari]

I'd test & worm as needed.

If you do need to do for tapes then I'd go for Equitape (if that's safe for minis), or failing that a double dose of a pyrantel wormer. Personally I think it's a bit early to worm for encysteds & I suspect it's the moxidectin that's the risk so I'd give a five day course of Panacur Guard. That also gives a bit of time between drugs so is less of a challenge to their system.

 

[Borderreiver]

Kezzabell2 which worms are you worrying about not being picked up? You can test for tapeworm now with the saliva test. Only a plain Equest needed mid winter for encysted redworm. Worm count in three months and don't worm again unless you have to.

 

[Ella19]

I'm working with equest as I worm counted (nothing) and tape worm tested (nothing) but encysted red worm aren't able to be tested for so you need to worm for that this time of year. If in doubt call your vet or worm count lab. Westgate are very good.

 

[maisie06]

You should worm for tape worm after the first frost.

Worm counts don't pick up all worms

My vets give me a free count and always a pramox at this time of yr. No frost by mid Nov, you need to worm again in 13 weeks

No you don't need to worm again in 13 weeks - this advice is what is encoraging resistance. We need to TEST!!! Only worm those who need worming. You are right in saying that worm counts don't pick up all worms...however a good worming programme would look something like this:

DEC/JAN worm with Moxidectin - Equest - for encysted redworm

MARCH/APRIL worm count - only treat those with counts of more than 200epg And do an Equisal tapeworm saliva test

June/July - worm count ...^^as above^^

Sept/Oct - worm count plus Tapeworm test treat only those that need worming

Dec/Jan - equest for encysted.

On no account should we be blanket worrming, once we see resistance to Moxidectin we are buggered - there are NO NEW WORMERS being developed for horses, The BVA would love to see horse wormers as a prescription only from the vet, as responsible owners we MUST cut down our use of horse wormers and move to testing and treating only those that actally need worming.

Its way, way too early and too mild for Pramox just yet.

 

[maisie06]

Second testing first. I've just done a poo test for 'normal' worms on my mini (came back as no worms seen today) & got a saliva testing kit from Westgate yest, so will have a go at that tomo.

I got a very cute 7 month old miniature Shetland this week & didn't want to let her mix with my ex-racer until I'd tested her. I've had 10 years of zero worm counts & want to keep it that way.

T x

Just out of interest with ten years of zero counts do you do a winter dose for encysteds??

 

[Equi]

I would never use that wormer on minis. The dose has to be so accurate and people generally hugely overestimate their minis weight. I don't care how many people say "I used it and it was fine" I would not put it near my miniatures.

I use strongidP double dose and panacur 5 day

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Panache 5 day guard is now showing resistance. Only worm for encysted redworm. We are going to end up with country wide resistance if people insist on worming for everything. I do wish this was more widely advertised. I wish wormers were prescription only, it would stop the ridiculous blanket worming.

 

[ycbm]

A vet once told me that if the horse tests negative for adult worms producing eggs then it is pointless to worm for encysted as there are no eggs to develop and encyst. Is this not right?

 

[Gift Horse]

Just out of interest with ten years of zero counts do you do a winter dose for encysteds??

I'm interested too. I have had 6yrs of 0 counts. I am going to ask Westgate or my vet before worming for encysteds in Jan.

 

[supsup]

From what I understand, worms can hibernate in the "encysted" stage for quite a long time, so having no egg-laying adults currently doesn't guarantee that there are no encysted larvae still present. I figure that chances of having encysted worms probably drop if your horse has tested with "no eggs seen" for a couple of years in a row. Mine never had a positive count, but I still do a once-a-year dose of Equest just in case. With the new Equisal test (also negative), that's the only treatment he gets.

 

[Gift Horse]

From what I understand, worms can hibernate in the "encysted" stage for quite a long time, so having no egg-laying adults currently doesn't guarantee that there are no encysted larvae still present. I figure that chances of having encysted worms probably drop if your horse has tested with "no eggs seen" for a couple of years in a row. Mine never had a positive count, but I still do a once-a-year dose of Equest just in case. With the new Equisal test (also negative), that's the only treatment he gets.

Thanks, this is my understanding too. I think encysted they can sometimes remain in the gut wall for years.

 

[Borderreiver]

If you have a long record of good test results and the horse has never been neglected in the past and you have good husbandry then I don't think you need to worm for encysted redworm. For all others it is an essential dose, but not yet. Wait until the weather turns cold.

Cinnamontoast wormers are prescription only but their category is POM-VPS which means 'Prescription Only Medicine' to be prescribed by a Vet, Pharmacist or SQP so in theory they are controlled drugs. Unfortunately this doesn't always work out in practice and we all know people who keep stuffing the wormers in and never do a single test. This really has to change. We do our best to educate but up against the huge budgets of the pharma companies it is not easy. They give some moderately good advice but if you look closely it is always subtly biased to their products and they certainly don't want us all to stop using their products. At Westgate we test horses right through the year, obviously fewer in winter, even with the caveats about winter dosing. We still see many high counts in January and it is a total myth that all worms encyst and stop egg laying in winter.

 

[DD]

re the resistance thing Panacur is an excellent wormer unless the worms have resistance to it. You dont know if they do unless you do a worm reduction test. ie send in a sample to see if horse needs worming. if it does worm with Panacur. send in another sample about 3 weeks later. If horse is still wormy there is resistance . Ifd it isnt then the drug is working fine.
On yards where other drugs such as ivermectin have been used for several years and there has been no exposure to fenbendazole [Panacur} then there wont be resistance to it.
So you cant say dont use Panacur 5 a day it wont work. You dont know unless you know that particular horses worms have resistance to it.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I do test and they have always been clear but I have also always wormed in December with the Equest Promax. I have had the minis for four years and they have always been fine but I have heard some real horror stories of people losing their minis after giving them this wormer. My old retired mare used to be on a complete worming programme but she began to develop colic after every worming hence the reason I started down the testing route. She has been fine ever since so I suppose I am a little paranoid.

 

[paddy555]

I do test and they have always been clear but I have also always wormed in December with the Equest Promax. I have had the minis for four years and they have always been fine but I have heard some real horror stories of people losing their minis after giving them this wormer. My old retired mare used to be on a complete worming programme but she began to develop colic after every worming hence the reason I started down the testing route. She has been fine ever since so I suppose I am a little paranoid.

i wouldn't use pramox on any horse. Far safer to split the chemicals, do tapeworm if it tests positive, leave it if not and then use equest for encysted at end Dec. I don't see the point of pramox. Both chemicals are available in separate doses.

BorderReiver,
probably not the right place to ask on but as we are on encysted. If you don't worm for encysted and haven't wormed for redworm (obviously) do you do anything for bots? I know all about a bot knife but sometimes just too many horses to clean up. Are bots a problem or do they get left? I have seen some come out in earlier years after equest.
thanks

 

[Borderreiver]

Bots are not thought to be particularly harmful but if there are a lot then you might want to treat for them. Ivermectin is a very effective wormer for bots.

 

[paddy555]

Bots are not thought to be particularly harmful but if there are a lot then you might want to treat for them. Ivermectin is a very effective wormer for bots.

thank you