Tobiano/skewbald/piebald -What is the difference?

[dozzie]

Having posted in breeding about coloured genetics i realised i dont know what the difference is between a Tobiano and other coloured horses. What makes a Tobiano a Tobiano rather than piebald, skewbald or pinto? Or is Tobiano the modern name for pinto and Im just out of date?

Can someone please enlighten me!!

ETA I do know that skewbald is brown and white, piebald is black and white, and pinto all three!!! Not that stupid!!!

Have posted in here because I bet Im not the only one who doesnt know

 

[Fahrenheit]

Tobiano in simple terms means coloured, its a type of coloured (as there is other overo etc etc) but its also what breeding people call the gene that causes a horse to be coloured.
So Piebald is Black Tobiano or Skewbald can be bay tobiano, brown tobiano, chestnut tobiano...........

 

[soph21]

piebald is black and white
skewbald is brown and white

Pass on the other 2!!!!

 

[Patches]

Patches is a blue tobiano.

I think Tia explained this to me a while ago. Tobiano's are coloureds who have a solid coloured head. If you look at Patches pictures when she's in her summer coat, she does infact have a blue (grey) face with a huge white blaze.

 

[Enfys]

www.apha.com/breed/index.html

That should make things a little more clear. It would be easier if we just stuck at piebald and skewbald wouldn't it?

When I looked into it I find that my overo mare is not 'just' a frame overo, but a sabino frame because she has a big white face,white legs and lacy borders. Bah, she's ginger and white my husband says!

 

[buzzles]

This horse is a tobiano, I posted a while ago and some of the coloured experts told me! I think tobianos have to have a dark solid head with some markings (star, stripe etc), white legs, a dark back and white and dark tail. But I'm not 100% sure, other people will know more, Enfys and Tia know a lot about coloureds!

I don't know how this differs to the other type of coloured horse though.

 

[Tia]

It's not new, it's just new to British people. Over here tobiano's have been around since before the registry was set up for APHA (American Paint Horse Association).

Tobiano can only be a coloured horse with the head and markings of a solid horse (with blaze, snip or whatever)...but it will have a coloured body. It doesn't matter what the other colour is and it can be more than one colour. For example one of my guys is a tri-coloured bay roan tobiano...now that's a mouthful, LOL!!

Tovero and overo are just different coat patterns; but again they can be any colour.

Many people over here understand piebald but I have yet to meet someone who knows what a skewbald is

.

Pinto is any coloured horse with no pedigree - so it will be a crossbreed.

 

[Enfys]

This site explains it even more if you can plough through it!

http://www.coloredhorses.com/PPnew.html

Hah. Yes to skewbald! What's a screwbord they say to me. I explain, and they say, ahhhhhhhh, a paint then, why didn't you say so?

 

[Fattie_Hattie]

Thanks tia that explained it very well

so my girl would be a black tobiano??

 

[Cahill]

if you had a pot of white paint its like.....if they stood in it or if it was poured over them.
um um?????
sorry.other can explain it better

 

[Tia]

Yes - your's is a black tobiano.

And very nice too.

 

[dozzie]

Cant quite get my head round the frame sabrino but I'll believe you!!! the site did make it clearer! Trust the americans to complicate things!!

But I'm going to learn these off by heart (Im sad like that) so i can impress people! " Hey, thats not just any old skewbald you know...Its a bay tovero !!! (Is that right?)"

I'll probably just get funny looks and people will surrepticiously move away!!!

 

[dozzie]

[ QUOTE ]
Pinto is any coloured horse with no pedigree - so it will be a crossbreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didnt know that either! Pikey pony then???

[ QUOTE ]
a tri-coloured bay roan tobiano

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that sounds posh!!! Im gonna learn that one as well!!!

OH MY GOD, Im turning into an American!!!!!!AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tia]

Pinto is a bit like British Spotted or CHAPS I guess (from what I know of them anyway ...I could be wrong) where the horses can come from good stock, are mixed up somewhere along the line and become crossbreeds and there will be a society which will pick them up just to give them papers....I think to make the owner think they have a super horse because it has papers LOL!! It isn't breed-specific and pintos are generally frowned upon in my circle.

 

[dozzie]

Sounds flippin complicated to me!!! I think I'll stick to my chestnut TBs!!

And my dark bay with grey mane and tail. It isnt natural, I highlight it for him!!!

 

[Donkeymad]

What's wrong with good old skewbald, piebald and tri-coloured????

 

[Tia]

Oh I wanna see the bay with the grey mane and tail!!!!!

 

[MillionDollar]

All I know is that I have a black tobiano and a bay tobiano

 

[TheresaW]

So, is the coloured in my sig, a black tobiano?

 

[Tia]

Yes

.

 

[xxcharlottexx]

is black tobiano the same as piebald or would it just be piebald if it had a coloured head?

lol i think im more confused than when i started

 

[charlyan]

Min is registered with CHAPS as a black tobiano- A tobiano should have a coloured shield down their chest and the dark colour will cover both flanks, and head markings will give the appearance of a solid coloured horse with blaze, strip or snip. Generally all four legs are white up to at least the knees.
Overos will not generally have white across the back between the withers and tail, at least one, if not all legs are dark and the white is irregular, rather scattered or splashy. (from The Complete Handbook of Horses by Judith Draper, Debby Sly and Sarah Muir)
Simple!

 

[Tia]

Piebald is a colour type; any type of markings which are black and white - it doesn't matter where about those markings may be or what shape they are. It's more a generic term for any horse who is b&w.

Tobiano is not a colour type; it is a marking type. You also have tovero, overo and sabino (and others for other breeds like Appys). These are all markings and are not colour-specific but they are all different types of markings.

 

[Tia]

Tovero:

Tobiano:

Overo:

 

[mandy4727]

Mines a Bay Tobiano. Bought her as a tri colour as she is skewbald but with black mane and tail. Tobiano refers to how large the "patches" are over the body and what parts they cover. One with more white would be called something else, one more white on face something else. Can't remember the others But there is a good website which we found we shows sketches of how the colours go over the body and which type of coloured they are. But can't remember it sorry.

 

[volatis]

Tobiano is the name given to the gene that gives what we call here in the UK piebald/skewbald horses, their white patches. Although tobianos usually have dark head, dark chest etc please dont take that as given.
Just because a horse has more white on it that that (like this filly here http://www.volatis.co.uk/delphi/delphi.htm doesn't stop it being a tobiano, as it most definatly is, just it is more strongly expressed than say this foal http://www.volatis.co.uk/khan/khan.htm

Same gene, just expressed a little mor or a little less.

So tobiano is just the name of the gene that adds the white patches over the base colour of the horse, be that bay, chestnut, palomino, whatever. Breeders often use the term tobiano for that reason, but most people understand what is meant by piebald etc, its the same thing in most cases.

 

[dozzie]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh I wanna see the bay with the grey mane and tail!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I didnt respond last night, Tia, Gave up with service temporarily unavailable and watched the programme on mototrways instead! How boring does that sound!

I will try and get a photo (depends if I can get near him!!

) although now he looks grey through old age and is very grey round his face. Ive got a younger photo but will need to scan it in! It was taken before the days of digital cameras! My scanner isnt working so will have to wait till I go back to work!

Thanks to everyone who has responded to this post. It has really clarified things for me and hopefully a few others too

 

[xxcharlottexx]

ahh that makes a bit more sense now
thanks

 

[minkymoo]

I cheated and went on Wikipedia:

Tobiano is a genetic trait among Pinto horses which produce a characteristic spotting pattern in the coat of the horse. The tobiano gene produces areas of white-haired, pink-skinned patches on a base coat color. The coloration is present from birth and does not change throughout the horse's lifetime. (Unless the horse also carries the gray gene, see below)

Tobiano traits generally include the following:

* White legs from the hocks and knees down
* White crossing the back between the withers and the dock of the tail
* White is arranged in a vertical pattern
* Facial markings like that of a solid-colored horse. i.e. star, snip, strip, or blaze
* White patches which are usually rounded or oval in shape, rather than jagged (see Overo)
* Dark color extending down the neck, giving the appearance of a shield

The coat pattern can occur when only a single heterozygous gene is present, because Tobiano is a dominant gene. When a horse is homozygous for Tobiano coloring, that horse's offspring will almost always be spotted unless the horse also carries the gray gene, in which case, the horse's spots will only be visible while it is young, eventually becoming lighter until finally, as the gray gene acts upon all coat colors, fade to pure white.

The Tobiano gene is not linked to lethal white syndrome. However, some Tobiano horses with ancestors of other backgrounds have been silent carriers of the gene and have produced affected offspring.[1]

In the UK, tobianos are frequently referred to as Piebald or Skewbald, depending on base coat color. Other spotting patterns seen in Pinto horses include overo and the sabino markings.