Tongue over bit...

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VickyP

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My ex racer will have been with me two years this summer. He is 11, flat raced till he was 9. I have pics of him racing with his tongue tied down with a pop sock so his tongue issue is a long standing one. As soon as the bridle goes on he literally gives you no time even to get the noseband done up before the tongue goes over the bit.

His teeth and any health issues which could cause this have been investigated and he's healthier than I am!

I have hacked about and ridden in the school with tongue over with no dire consequences, but I would like to have him going a bit better so am looking for advice. The more left alone in his mouth the better he is, but he can be a total idiot when he's a bit fresh, which is often, so I'd love some more control!

I have tried a NS verbinand (sp!) which made no difference, I was hoping more tongue room may help his comfort but the loose ring is an invitation to be gobby. His best so far is a full cheek snaffle, fitted maybe a hole higher than I'd like but I can get the noseband done up before the tongue goes over and the full cheek with keepers to the cheek peices is very stable in his mouth so he is quieter with it. Despite this if he puts his mind to it he can get his tongue over!

I saw some tongue bits like the bomber spinner, which also comes in a full cheek version. Sadly in Italy we have no such thing as bit banks so I'd appreciate some advice! I also don't mind a none dressage legal bit as I'd very much doubt we'll be going down that route.
 
I should try a hanging cheek - they are quite straightforward but tend to help the ones who put their tongues over the bit ;)
 
VickyP said:
My ex racer will have been with me two years this summer. He is 11, flat raced till he was 9. I have pics of him racing with his tongue tied down with a pop sock so his tongue issue is a long standing one. As soon as the bridle goes on he literally gives you no time even to get the noseband done up before the tongue goes over the bit.

His teeth and any health issues which could cause this have been investigated and he's healthier than I am!

I have hacked about and ridden in the school with tongue over with no dire consequences, but I would like to have him going a bit better so am looking for advice. The more left alone in his mouth the better he is, but he can be a total idiot when he's a bit fresh, which is often, so I'd love some more control!

I have tried a NS verbinand (sp!) which made no difference, I was hoping more tongue room may help his comfort but the loose ring is an invitation to be gobby. His best so far is a full cheek snaffle, fitted maybe a hole higher than I'd like but I can get the noseband done up before the tongue goes over and the full cheek with keepers to the cheek peices is very stable in his mouth so he is quieter with it. Despite this if he puts his mind to it he can get his tongue over!

I saw some tongue bits like the bomber spinner, which also comes in a full cheek version. Sadly in Italy we have no such thing as bit banks so I'd appreciate some advice! I also don't mind a none dressage legal bit as I'd very much doubt we'll be going down that route.
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I would really investigate going bitless with him, it was the best decision I've ever made with my ex racer who was never happy in a bit. She moves the best she has ever moved and collects beautifully in it.

I use a Dr Cooks leather bitless bridle that looks like a conventional bridle however if you considered bitless you can get matrix bridles which can be used as either side pulls/dr cooks or you can even try a simple rope halter with rope reins which I still often use for hacking. I've never had any issues with breaks or steering even out cantering in company and I've now got one very chilled out and happy horse who doesn't have a tantrum with the slightest contact.
 
Here's a picture of my girl in her Dr cooks -

image-7_zpsf5875354.jpg
 
Flicker51, what sort of mouth piece would you suggest?

And ImmyS I have thought about bitless, and that's as far as it got because I think I'd poo myself. He's quite strong, both pulling wise and strong minded. I do posess somewhere or other both a hackamore and a micklem bridle which can be used bitless. But I'd need some serious vodka before trying that, more of a mental limitation on my part than a real reason..
 
Oldenfelle, no I have no desire to compete. I'd like to try him jumping though. Just for fun. I work nearky every weekend so competing is a distant memory!!
 
VickyP said:
Flicker51, what sort of mouth piece would you suggest?

And ImmyS I have thought about bitless, and that's as far as it got because I think I'd poo myself. He's quite strong, both pulling wise and strong minded. I do posess somewhere or other both a hackamore and a micklem bridle which can be used bitless. But I'd need some serious vodka before trying that, more of a mental limitation on my part than a real reason..
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I personally don't like a hackamores action but love my dr cooks. I know the feeling " how the hell can I control a horse without a bit?!" But I really think you'd be surprised, its incredible how much more the horse listens to you when they don't have a bit to distract them! My mare used to have proper temper tantrums when you took up a contact (all Heath checks done) decided to try bitless, actually started by hacking her in her rope halter, probably not the smartest idea, but we've never looked back! she can be strong but I've never ever had an issue with her bitless, in fact I've had a lot less if any braking issues since going bitless. Just teach your horse the one rein stop! Handiest tool ever in an emergency :p
 
My dissertation is on bit evasion, I feel more confused about what's best than before I started though!

However the Dr Cooks bitless after reading wins hands down if I was to ever have a horse that's having real issues with the bit :)

In fact I've considered using one for hacking but as I want to do a little bit of competing, I'm worried my horse will love it so much we won't be able to go back to a bit.
 
Oldenfelle said:
My dissertation is on bit evasion, I feel more confused about what's best than before I started though!

However the Dr Cooks bitless after reading wins hands down if I was to ever have a horse that's having real issues with the bit :)

In fact I've considered using one for hacking but as I want to do a little bit of competing, I'm worried my horse will love it so much we won't be able to go back to a bit.
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Go for it! best decision i ever made. On the worries about the horse not wanting to go back to a bit, i occasionally ride my mare in her snaffle as at some point in her life she may have to be ridden in a bit again, ive actually found that shes a lot more accepting of the bit after being ridden bitless and i believe this is quite a common reaction. I think that the horse becomes a lot more reactive and in tune to the riders other aids, weight, seat etc.. and so are actually better when the bit is reintroduced.
 
My horse is 24 and has always done it when he gets excited , I did try a miler raised port bit , didn't make much of a difference he is still ridden in a snaffle and I just accept it as one if his quirks
 
When i was 14 I had a show jumper who did this constantly, we tried a lot if different bits etc and eventually got a Tongue tie... Not sure if I would consider it cruel now but it was effective! Basically it slid onto and around his Tongue with straps hanging down so we tied the tongue to the bittomr jaw. It was loose enough to allow some movement, but prevented him getting his Tongue over the bit. It was very slimy to get on though!

The senior rider at the yard found it for me, I have no idea where though, but try googling it if you fancy a try, they can't be very expensive as it was basically soft rubber and nylon strapping
 
I have a horse who puts her tongue over the bit and I need to leave her noseband quite loose and she usually just pops it back again. I found the rubber tongue guards you can attach to the bit work really well for some but my horse can occasionally turn them around. I used one for a while until she got out of the habit and now she rarely does it.

http://www.robinsonsequestrian.com/.../cottage-craft-rubber-tongue-guard-black.html
 
Horse on my yard did this-owner got her a bit like the one in Cuppatea's link and that stopped it. Horse goes nicely in the bit too.
 
Mine dies it in all bits bar the cotswold sport tongue saver - she's ridden in s hanging cheek version. All straight, lozenge, French link, single joint she gets her tongue over!
She is also ok in a Waterford - again having cheek - but it's only needed in XC occasionally
 
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