Tongue over the bit - why?

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Very recently, my horse has started putting his tongue over the bit towards the end of a schooling session. It is most disconcerting.

His flash is on fairly tight and I am loathe to make it too tight.

He usually pops it back if I allow him to stretch down for a bit, but I don't want him to start to associate putting his tongue over the bit with getting a break (or he'll just start doing it more).

I've not had a horse that does it before. Why do they do it and how can I help him so he doesn't feel the need to do it anymore?
 
My mare does this. Apparently it can be associated with them feeling like they can't swallow properly if they feel restricted.
What bit do you have him in? How is he to ride without the flash or with it looser?
 
Interesting. He's in a hanging cheek snaffle. I'll loosen the flash and see if that helps (see - I am so glad I asked on here, I was all set to tighten the flash!!)
 
Well when I bought my mare she was in a flash and hanging cheek so I opted for one of the KK bits with a thinner mouthpiece to give her more room in her mough and took the flash away completely. She is a different horse. She also hated the poll pressure which didn't help.
 
I had a pony who used to do the same, for some reason he didnt like the flash noseband, i changed to a drop and never had issues with him and his tongue after that
 
Has you changed anything to do with his tack or the way that he is ridden lately? If you think it's something he's doing as a result of working harder you could try and pre-empt him and give plenty of breaks to stretch and rest throughout the session, rather than waiting until he tells you he's tired. (Apologies if you're already doing this but often when we're asking more from a horse and having them use different muscles it can make them a lot more tired than you might think!) I would assume this is something he is doing due to discomfort and would definitely not be tightening the flash as you really want to get to the bottom of it.
 
if the bit doesn't allow enough room for his tongue then it can make them feel restricted and make it hard to swallow - trying to put their tongue over the bit is a reaction to this to escape the restriction.

When you are schooling and have a contact then there is prob more tongue pressure than when you give a much looser contact and allow him to stretch down.

What bit is he in now? I would consider a shaped bit like neue schule or cotswold sport tongue saver - both do really fab bits, the cotswold sports ones allow a little more tongue space though I think than the ns ones.
 
Damnation said:
ThePony - I might look at those :D My mare doesn't put her tongue over the bit anymore but anything to get her more comfortable and going better ;)
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They really are fab bits - oh mare has the cotswold sport tongue saver hanging cheek - she is such a sensitive fussy mare and she really settles in this - the only bit we have found that she is comfortable enough in to not go above the contact all the time, without using the softness of the bit against you in exciting situations! She really is happy and relaxed in it. My mare has the ns loose ring verbind which she is very settled in too - the extra tongue space on both of the bits has made a huge difference tbh.

JenCots on here is a good one to chat to, I think it is her dad who runs cotswold sport and designed the tongue saver bits?
 
interesting post - my horse has never put his tounge over the bit but as soon as i put him in a hanging cheek he has started doing it ?? its not a particularly wide bit ? very strange...he also has no flash !
 
scrumpyjackles said:
interesting post - my horse has never put his tounge over the bit but as soon as i put him in a hanging cheek he has started doing it ?? its not a particularly wide bit ? very strange...he also has no flash !
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A hanging cheek is usually a lovely bit as when a contact is taken the bit lifts a little in the mouth, so giving a slight release of tongue pressure. Has the mouthpiece changed at all? Even going from a french link lozenge to a french link with a plate can make a massive difference as the plate gives more of a positive tongue pressure which some horses dislike. I would def sill leave off the flash - then you can see clearly what suits and get him comfortable in his mouth!
 
The reason horses put their tongues over the bit is discomfort, either the bit is too low in the mouth or is causing the horse to feel uncomfortable in some other way. My ID came in a single jointed hanging cheek with a flash noseband. I can think of nothing more uncomfortable for a horse than having its mouth strapped shut while the bit is poking the roof of the mouth. I got rid of both the bit and the noseband, at first she had a french link snaffle, which seemed fine but then I realised that in an emergency by steering wasn't as good as it could be, so now she has a PeeWee bit, which is very slim and fits her fat tongue and fleshy mouth extremely well. It has the added advantage of sidepieces to aid steering.
 
Thanks so much all for your replies - I will definitely look into different bitting and also nose band options.

Interestingly, he's only done it the last two times I've schooled him. His bit has not changed for many months. But that's not to say he isn't starting to find it uncomfortable now.

I will also build in lots of breaks. We are starting to do more lateral work and I think he does find it hard. Poor love, he's so honest and is trying his little heart out.

The only thing that has changed in the recent past is about 6 weeks ago he had his saddle refitted and reflocked as it was moving and rubbing him (although when the saddle WASN'T fitting, he wasn't putting his tongue over the bit). The saddle fitter suggested I put a Pro-Lite pad under the reflocked saddle for added comfort and pressure absorbtion, which I will now definitely do. I always check his back after riding (running my fingers over) and he is not showing any signs of rubbing or tightness / discomfort.

His old owner has also just told me that he used to do it during her jumping lessons if he was doing lots of 'thinking' work. She used to blast him round the school for a bit and then bring him back to work and he would be ok then. He used to be jumped in a pelham and grackle combo.
 
This video explains why a lot of horses will put there tongue over the bit. Mostly is caused by pain, when the points of a single jointed snaffle hit the roof of the mouth. This will happen more when you pull the reins. The horse puts its tongue over the bit to cushion the roof of the mouth.
I would always recommend taking away the problem ie the bit, but if this isnt possible, a bit that gives the tongue more room and has less nutcracker action. Like a french link, or even a ported bit, or a mullen mouth, something kinder to the mouth. A horse will not open his jaw or stick his tongue over the bit if he is soft and responsive the the contact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a-aV0Rsxmg
 
My boy started popping his tongue over the bit and back under again, and over, and under...He was clearly uncomfortable and also while the tongue was over the bit I had no control (he is a very chilled chap, but still!). Problem was solved with the Sprenger Tornado.
 
My young mare keeps getting her tongue over the bit. We are only at the stage of going out on small hacks in walk and trot at the moment so I am not asking her to work particularly hard. She is ridden in a loose ring straight bar happy mouth snaffle with bit guards. At first I thought it was because the bit was too low in her mouth so I have put the cheek pieces up a hole but she still does it! I have been thinking about trying her in a flash noseband but just wondered if anyone else had any advice?
 
ShowjumpingStars - When you put the bit in your mares mouth have a look and see how much room she has around it. I find if they have quite a big fleshy tongue and fleshy cheeks they don't have alot of room and the happymouth straightbar doesn't give alot of room. Something thinner with a french link or penut in the middle may be better?
IMO putting a flash on is just hiding the problem.
 
Damnation - Yes that's the reason why I haven't put a flash on her yet. She does have quite a small mouth so it could be that she hasn't got enough room. Also, she has only just had her teeth done (I haven't had her long) and my dentist said they were very sharp, so it could have been discomfort. Haven't ridden her yet since she had her teeth done but she might not do it now her teeth feel more comfortable.
 
My Andalusian used to do it just because he could. He was wearing a Myler comfort snaffle and no noseband. I think the bit was too low in his mouth so put it up a hole. He still did it but not as much. Changed his bit to a happy mouth snaffle and put a drop noseband on him. He's much happier in his mouth now.

I've noticed drop nosebands are being used more and more now!
 
As long as teeth all ok and not due for rasping then I would have a play with different bits and nosebands- maybe a cavesson, or drop- one of my horses loves his drop!- or even a high ring grackle.

Or You could try the flash done up looser or tighter.

You could may be try a french link hanging cheek snaffle which would sit higher in the mouth so make it more difficult to get tongue over or a sprenger training bit with lozenge would relieve the tongue pressure with the lozenge or even a nathe duo as that has lots of room for the bit.


If you can feel when they are putting their tongue over the bit then just by riding them more forwards and getting the horse using their back, can stop them doing it.

Good luck with it!
 
so glad i read this post !!!! i thought he was just being naughty !! - - the more i think about it i never have him in a single jointed bit as i dont like them but i bought this hanging cheek in a hurry and it is actually a single jointed !! will get a hanging cheek with french link now !! thank you everyone !
 
ShowJumping Superstars said:
Damnation - Yes that's the reason why I haven't put a flash on her yet. She does have quite a small mouth so it could be that she hasn't got enough room. Also, she has only just had her teeth done (I haven't had her long) and my dentist said they were very sharp, so it could have been discomfort. Haven't ridden her yet since she had her teeth done but she might not do it now her teeth feel more comfortable.
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its not nessesarily the teeth that are the problem. The bars of the mouth are actually a point, with the tongue laying over them. this can pinch and is likely to hurt.
Perhaps a thinner mouthpiece if you think she has a small mouth, or a ported or mullen mouthpiece, to give the tongue more room.

But at the end of the day, most horses object to the bit in many different ways because it hurts. And it doesnt just hurt when u pull the reins either.
The best way to solve the problem is to take it away, as simple as that.
 
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