Too late to vaccinate against strangles?

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horseykitty

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A horse on my yard has today been confirmed as having strangles - although as of yesterday it was out and about on the yard as if nothing was wrong with it despite awaiting the results of testing.

As a fairly new horse owner I am concerned about what precautions to take - is it worth having my horse vaccinated now?
 
I am not sure I asked my vet this once and I can't remember the answer I would ring your vet first thing in the morning.
 
Not sure how correct this is but I have heard that there is a vacine against stranges but it's not that plesant and it is injected into the gum. Sorry if this is wrong but I'm sure I heard this when there was strangles in an area close to us
 
If your horse has been infected it is too late now, and the vaccine is difficult, mostly advised for competition horses.

The livery yard should have taken advice from THE VET IN CHARGE OF THE OUTBREAK

You should NOT mix with any other people or animals or fodder on the yard, ie isolate your horse. If the yard has done nothing, put a notice up "HORSE IN QUARANTINE" do NOT enter.
Keep your horse in its stable.

Avoid communal feed and tack room, use water tap after puting [small glug ] bleach in to water tub and spraying tap with bleach, do not allow hose to dip in water. Make sure bleach is not left in drinking water. Wash barrow before and after use, spray wheels with bleach.
Keep a tub of disinfectant to dip welly boots in, fill with Jeyes Fluid solution.

Wear clean clothes every time you visit, wash at 40 degrees after every use.
Buy Marigolds, and wipes [for car], spray on Bleach, bleach.

Do NOT let haynet touch any other net, wash in bleach [pop in to water bucket] every time you fill it.
Ask for your OWN supply of hay, cross contamination is normal method of transmission.

Buy a [human] thermometer from chemist [not Boots Own], insert in to bum-hole, holding tight [to thermometer] and to one side, wait two mins and record temp, do this twice per day.
If temp iis over 38.6, or goes 2 degree above its normal temp, you have a suspect horse, notify YO and vet.
http://www.horseandrideruk.com/article.php?id=391
You need to try to do this on your own, give him a little feed, and stand to one side of tail, some horses will object strongly, so you have to give up.
Record any nasal discharge and any swelling under or around jaw, these are symptoms, abcesses as seen in horrific pictures are NOT typical.
There is normally no treatment as antibiotics will prolong the disease.

Keep horse warm especially if he has a temperature, a light rug if he is stood inside.

If you have been close to a diseased horse, you will be more likely to have picked up the infection, but chances are you will be OK.
You may be mistaken about this horse [rumours abound about strangles], it is up to Yard Owner to put procedures in to place, I think you should email her, telling her of your concerns, your own vet will "know" what to do, so phone him. You are best to use the yard vet if he has been appointed Vet in Charge of Outbreak.

Try not to worry, but be absolutely scrupulously clean, wash all stable surrounds with bleach solution, and do not touch anything in the yard.
 
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I am on a 43 horse yard. About four years ago everyone decided to have the strangles vaccination from the one vet (it worked out cheaper if we had it all done at the same time). Fortunately for my horse he was on antibiotics at the time so was unable to have the vacinnation.

Every horse without exception suffered moderate to severe problems hours after the injections were administered. Two horses were shivering violently and one horse developed colic. Another horse encountered problems, an ECG actually showed as a result of the vaccination her heart had become enlarged. Fortunately the vet was able to treat the problem and show the manufacturers of the drug how it had affected this mare and the girl was able to get her vets bill covered by the manufacturer of the drug.

The vet said he would not be using the strangles vacination again and nor would his practice (he was the senior partner so could make that decision).

I remember walking up the aisles and looking at the horses through the stable bars. It was very obvious which horses had received the vacination by the sorry look of them. They were all depressed, not eating and looking quite poorly. I remember walking along and saying 'Fred hasn't had it, John has, Billy hasn't, Sparkle has, Joey has, etc, etc.

To be honest a previous yard I was at was hit by the strangles virus twice. We never had more than a feverish horse and a bit of snot. Maybe we were lucky. But personally I really think the strangles virus is a little over rated in terms of people freaking out about it. So long as you take precautions to prevent the disease spreading, and maintain proper, efficient stable management the problem rarely escalates imho. Apologies if this infuriates someone who has lost a horse to strangles. I know it can be serious, but what I am saying is that I believe it is a subject that is grossly over inflated in terms of how it is reported around the equine population. Its like a black cloud of gloom descending over a yard and every horse is doomed. Everyone knows everything about it all of a sudden and there are whispers of such and such a yard having it and no one should visit any friend on that yard, etc, etc. And before long there is mass panic amongst owners. Anyone else agree?

Yes ******* strangles which gets into the blood stream is life threatening but I bet there are more horses that die from getting hit on the roads by a car than die from strangles every year.
 
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All I can say Applecard14 is that you have either been irresponsible or very lucky. Otherwise it will fill you with dread along with the rest of us.

I have been through strangles on the yard several times in the past, not something I ever want to do again.

On a large yard it can take many months before the last case has cleared up and people get the all clear. This can almost a year of never riding out or leaving the yard, even if your horse is not sick. No shows or competitions, no movement of horses too and from the yard etc etc.

I would never visit anywhere where I might possibly pass it on to other horses, so no visits or shows, even without the horse.

For anyone competing it the loss of a season and terrible for business for any yard. How many times do you see people asking if they should go to a yard which has had strangles in the past.

In three outbreaks the worst my three got was snot and other mild symptoms but I was very very lucky and I think mine had some immunity after the first time. Other owners were dealing with far more serious symptoms.

Two horses died in three outbreaks, one was a foal which is not really surprising, but another was very shocking. It developed different symptoms after the main outbreak had ended, it entire body swelled until its skin split apart. It had to be PTS for its own sake after a few days.

I think mad panic would be preferable to dont care. I have seen owners take sick horses to shows, deliberately move from infected yards without telling the new yard etc etc.
 
I only know of one horse that was vaccinated and it still got strangles. Still had to be scoped different strangles so the vet said.
 
rockysmum said:
All I can say Applecard14 is that you have either been irresponsible or very lucky.

I think mad panic would be preferable to dont care. I have seen owners take sick horses to shows, deliberately move from infected yards without telling the new yard etc etc.
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Here we go! I am about to get slaughtered for my comments!:(

I am not irresponsible. On the yard I was at I took my horses temperature daily. The vet said if the temperature rose on any horses that were monitored he would give us antibiotics to prevent the disease. I administered antibiotics to my horse and he didn't develop it. We still ensured that strict hygiene was adhered to. None of the horses (numbering 40+) that were hit by two separate strangles outbreaks went on to develop problems. Our yard was quarantined. Nothing came in, nothing went out. Shows were cancelled and we were all dissappointed. S**t happens. Hygiene was adhered to, temperatures taken, horses made comfortable and nursed appropriately.

Nor did I say I didn't care either!! I said that I thought that the whole 'strangles thing' was over exaggerated imho, there was a lot of scare mongering that goes on, and a lot of incorrect information strewn around by gossips and people who like to be overly dramatic.

I didn't say it couldn't be spread. I didn't say it wasn't serious, I know it can be serious, that are exceptions to every rule. But not very often is it life threatening. The mortality rate of strangles is actually less than 2% in America and only 1% here in the UK with a population of 1.3 million horses.

What I tried to say in my previous post about ba**ard strangles was that this is obviously more serious. (The forum took the word Ba*ta*d off the screen and replaced it with *******!)
 
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applecart14 said:
I am on a 43 horse yard. About four years ago everyone decided to have the strangles vaccination from the one vet (it worked out cheaper if we had it all done at the same time). Fortunately for my horse he was on antibiotics at the time so was unable to have the vacinnation.

Every horse without exception suffered moderate to severe problems hours after the injections were administered. Two horses were shivering violently and one horse developed colic. Another horse encountered problems, an ECG actually showed as a result of the vaccination her heart had become enlarged. Fortunately the vet was able to treat the problem and show the manufacturers of the drug how it had affected this mare and the girl was able to get her vets bill covered by the manufacturer of the drug.

The vet said he would not be using the strangles vacination again and nor would his practice (he was the senior partner so could make that decision).

I remember walking up the aisles and looking at the horses through the stable bars. It was very obvious which horses had received the vacination by the sorry look of them. They were all depressed, not eating and looking quite poorly. I remember walking along and saying 'Fred hasn't had it, John has, Billy hasn't, Sparkle has, Joey has, etc, etc.

To be honest a previous yard I was at was hit by the strangles virus twice. We never had more than a feverish horse and a bit of snot. Maybe we were lucky. But personally I really think the strangles virus is a little over rated in terms of people freaking out about it. So long as you take precautions to prevent the disease spreading, and maintain proper, efficient stable management the problem rarely escalates imho. Apologies if this infuriates someone who has lost a horse to strangles. I know it can be serious, but what I am saying is that I believe it is a subject that is grossly over inflated in terms of how it is reported around the equine population. Its like a black cloud of gloom descending over a yard and every horse is doomed. Everyone knows everything about it all of a sudden and there are whispers of such and such a yard having it and no one should visit any friend on that yard, etc, etc. And before long there is mass panic amongst owners. Anyone else agree?

Yes ******* strangles which gets into the blood stream is life threatening but I bet there are more horses that die from getting hit on the roads by a car than die from strangles every year.
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In the UK the vaccine was withdrawn s few years ago, due to problems. and re-introduced in the spring of 2010, your vets should have been aware of the problems before they recommended herd vaccination.. which is rare. yes, recommended by the drug companies, a different thing.
Streptoccus Equie is a bacterium not a virus, it is spread by contact, not by air currents [as is a virus]
The spread of any disease can be minimised, but if yard staff decide to ignore it and allow infected horse to mix, then an outbreak is inevitable, then people like me will be very angry, my horse suffered dreadfully, and was out of commission for six months. Perhaps I should have taken a video of the insertion of scalpel and collection of pus in a bucket.
I don't take my horse on the roads. what are you on?
Strangles on a yard is a call for action not a shrug of the shoulders.
 
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traceyann said:
I only know of one horse that was vaccinated and it still got strangles. Still had to be scoped different strangles so the vet said.
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There was no vaccine in the UK for several years, and very few herds have ever been done,
different strangles?, check out the science! There is only one Streptoccous Equi .
 
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Only saying what the vet said this horse was vaccinate about seven years ago so dont know what it was like then. I to have been at a yard that had bad strangles i was lucky out of the row of six horse three got it mine wasnt one of them Thank god as he getting on a bit But people do get in a major panic about really silly sometimes the only horses we lost was because we were coped up in the stables not one foot out of the door for three weeks and we lost horses to colic not strangles. Im not saying it dosent happen My friend lost all her JA ponies due to ba--tard strangles but that was about twentyfive years ago. All you can do is take care like no nose to nose contact no sharing anything horse to horse or human whos horse as it stay away from others. Sadly this virus has been going on years panic will not make it go away. All you can do is give the best care you can if your horse gets it. Our yard got crazy people ignore people whos horse had strangles and a horse was badly hurt in the stable noone would go and help it because it had strangles crazy people.
 
traceyann said:
Only saying what the vet said this horse was vaccinate about seven years ago so dont know what it was like then. I to have been at a yard that had bad strangles i was lucky out of the row of six horse three got it mine wasnt one of them Thank god as he getting on a bit But people do get in a major panic about really silly sometimes the only horses we lost was because we were coped up in the stables not one foot out of the door for three weeks and we lost horses to colic not strangles. Im not saying it dosent happen My friend lost all her JA ponies due to ba--tard strangles but that was about twentyfive years ago. All you can do is take care like no nose to nose contact no sharing anything horse to horse or human whos horse as it stay away from others. Sadly this virus has been going on years panic will not make it go away. All you can do is give the best care you can if your horse gets it. Our yard got crazy people ignore people whos horse had strangles and a horse was badly hurt in the stable noone would go and help it because it had strangles crazy people.
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OK. it is a bacterial infection not a virus, and things have moved on.
Temperatures should be taken twice daily.
 
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I know its not a virus wrong word to late to change it what im trying to say Its not the panic it causes Id rather my horse have strangles than some all the other horrible injuries that you read on here
 
traceyann said:
I know its not a virus wrong word to late to change it what im trying to say Its not the panic it causes Id rather my horse have strangles than some all the other horrible injuries that you read on here
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Having lost four horses in under seven years absolutely through no fault of my own, and having many many veterinary call outs over my horses lifetimes, some emergency and some not (again through no fault of of my own again, cuts, lameness, etc) I thoroughly agree.

Wobblers, a broken leg, a huge laceration severing two tendons and a heart attack were four of of the things that struck down and killed my precious horses. Wobblers is a breeze in comparison. But I suppose if I'd lost a horse to strangles I would think different.

The main thing I was trying to say was the panic factor when the word is banded about. If it was west nile virus or glanders and farcy then yes.
 
Thanks for your replies, especially Miss L Toe for your recommendations re hygiene. The vet recommended a blood test first to check whether she is a carrier and depending on results she will go onto to have vaccination if she is not already incubating strangles.

As to what the yo is doing - answer - not a lot. There are no disinfectant baths around common areas like entrances to the stable blocks, muck heap etc...; horses haven't been told to stay in their stables, you can still turn-out if you want to and the yard floor and surrounding buildings haven't been washed down.

If you didn't know there was a confirmed case of strangles on the yard then nothing would alert you to it. Some people are very concerned to the point of not letting anyone walk past their horse and others (the majority) are taking the attitude of strangles being nothing more than a snotty cold and are quite happy to put their horses in an outdoor pen that the infected horse was in. I suspect their attitudes will change when they are faced with huge vet's bills for the treatment of their horses.

I am doing my best but I feel it is going to spread like wildfire.
 
Yep, it's going to spread by the sounds of it. And on large yards it can be difficult to contain.

Horses should still be turned out - but obviously separately from ill ones.

Good luck - it will run its course eventually, but will take several months.
 
applecart14 said:
Having lost four horses in under seven years absolutely through no fault of my own, and having many many veterinary call outs over my horses lifetimes, some emergency and some not (again through no fault of of my own again, cuts, lameness, etc) I thoroughly agree.

Wobblers, a broken leg, a huge laceration severing two tendons and a heart attack were four of of the things that struck down and killed my precious horses. Wobblers is a breeze in comparison. But I suppose if I'd lost a horse to strangles I would think different.

The main thing I was trying to say was the panic factor when the word is banded about. If it was west nile virus or glanders and farcy then yes.
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Its a great shame that you have lost so many horses.

BUT it doesn't alter the fact that non of those incidents would affect other people or their precious horses.

A bit of panic on a yard can mean that proper procedures are followed to prevent the spread and make sure it isn't passed onto other peoples animals.

I have seen a yard take it seriously and two that didn't. On one people were still going out competing.
 
horseykitty said:
Thanks for your replies, especially Miss L Toe for your recommendations re hygiene. The vet recommended a blood test first to check whether she is a carrier and depending on results she will go onto to have vaccination if she is not already incubating strangles.

As to what the yo is doing - answer - not a lot. There are no disinfectant baths around common areas like entrances to the stable blocks, muck heap etc...; horses haven't been told to stay in their stables, you can still turn-out if you want to and the yard floor and surrounding buildings haven't been washed down.

If you didn't know there was a confirmed case of strangles on the yard then nothing would alert you to it. Some people are very concerned to the point of not letting anyone walk past their horse and others (the majority) are taking the attitude of strangles being nothing more than a snotty cold and are quite happy to put their horses in an outdoor pen that the infected horse was in. I suspect their attitudes will change when they are faced with huge vet's bills for the treatment of their horses.

I am doing my best but I feel it is going to spread like wildfire.
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Re blood test [£25 plus visit = £80 is to tell if she has been exposed, a carrier will be difficult to identify, if the blood test is positive, the next stage is to do a GP [£200]. it is the G Pouch that stops the carrier. Personally I would not pay for any treatment, just take temp twice a day and keep in stable.
To go down the vaccine route at this stage is very debatable, you could contact Shering-Plough by email and ask for their advice.
The liveres should have a meeting with the YO, who is currently ignoring veterinary advice, there is a procedure worked out by AHT and it is not being adhered to, therefore there is no control over the disease, so it could burble on for six or more months.
PS do not allow a vet near your horse unless you are sure they have come to you first thing in the morning and have clean overalls. No need for argument, just make it clear your horse is in isolation.
 
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I know you want to do the best for your horse, but there is no magic wand, you need to research your options, if your horse gets the disease/or has already had it, it may become immune to further outbreaks for a while.
Have you, or your horse been in direct contact or in same paddock in the last four to ten days?. if not you may be OK.
It the YO does nothing I suggest you ask her if she is aware of an infected horse, and if so what does her vet advice, make it clear you need to use the same vet, that is to say The VET in Charge of the Outbreak.
Do not relax your hygiene procedures, there will probably be more infected horses fairly soon, that is IF everyone takes temperatures twice a day, which is really the only definitive symptom, sometimes the temperature is only elevated for 12-18 hours, and is the only symptom, but the horse is discharging virulent bacteria for up to a week, maybe more. Look out for [yellow] pus down one or more nostril.
 
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applecart14 said:
I am on a 43 horse yard. About four years ago everyone decided to have the strangles vaccination from the one vet (it worked out cheaper if we had it all done at the same time). Fortunately for my horse he was on antibiotics at the time so was unable to have the vacinnation.

Every horse without exception suffered moderate to severe problems hours after the injections were administered. Two horses were shivering violently and one horse developed colic. Another horse encountered problems, an ECG actually showed as a result of the vaccination her heart had become enlarged. Fortunately the vet was able to treat the problem and show the manufacturers of the drug how it had affected this mare and the girl was able to get her vets bill covered by the manufacturer of the drug.

The vet said he would not be using the strangles vacination again and nor would his practice (he was the senior partner so could make that decision).

I remember walking up the aisles and looking at the horses through the stable bars. It was very obvious which horses had received the vacination by the sorry look of them. They were all depressed, not eating and looking quite poorly. I remember walking along and saying 'Fred hasn't had it, John has, Billy hasn't, Sparkle has, Joey has, etc, etc.

To be honest a previous yard I was at was hit by the strangles virus twice. We never had more than a feverish horse and a bit of snot. Maybe we were lucky. But personally I really think the strangles virus is a little over rated in terms of people freaking out about it. So long as you take precautions to prevent the disease spreading, and maintain proper, efficient stable management the problem rarely escalates imho. Apologies if this infuriates someone who has lost a horse to strangles. I know it can be serious, but what I am saying is that I believe it is a subject that is grossly over inflated in terms of how it is reported around the equine population. Its like a black cloud of gloom descending over a yard and every horse is doomed. Everyone knows everything about it all of a sudden and there are whispers of such and such a yard having it and no one should visit any friend on that yard, etc, etc. And before long there is mass panic amongst owners. Anyone else agree?

Yes ******* strangles which gets into the blood stream is life threatening but I bet there are more horses that die from getting hit on the roads by a car than die from strangles every year.
Click to expand...



I think you will find that was the first vaccine which was withdrawn after many horses suffered what this posters described we had exactly the same here.
I believe that they have got over this now but I have not vaccinated again .
 
According to my vet the strangles vaccine is not that effective - good hygene and isolating new arrivals is the best way to go. Mine are not vaccinated and won't be ever.

I remember the days when any new horse spent its first three weeks in the isolation box on the far side of the yard. This area had its own feed room, water suply, mucking out equipment and at the gate was a container with Jeyes fluid in it for duncking your gumboots in.

We wore overalls when working with the horse and it was always the last to be dealt with, last to feed, muck out, groom ride etc. We managed to keep the yard free of all infectious diseases for many years.

At one time it was quite expected that if you had a youngster it was likely to get strangles if it was in the area. Birds can carry it too should they get sneezed on or land on a patch of goop! Prevention is better then cure. If you go to shows NEVER let your horse drink from a communal trough, take your own water and buckets. Don't allow horses to talk to each other - kids are a big problem with this as they think its cute when their pony touches noses with another and squeals!

A few years ago a horse brought on to the property I was grazing on developed strangles we think caught from the trailer she hired to move the horse. We were put into isolation for three months - she got her all clear a few days before my favourite show so we got to go to it. Around this time there had been an outbreak of strangles in a few racing stables but it settled down again fast.

Whenever I've hired a trailer I always spray inside with either Virkon or Jeyes Fluid and leave it to dry. I also do the same before I return it. I do transport horses for people at times and do them the courtesy of ensuring my truck is hygenically clean.

I also think people get obcessively panicky about it - it's easy to deal with aand the only time it is really bad is if a lymph node breaks open internally. Never allow the vet to give antibiotics until the throat abscess has opened - if you give antibiotics too soon the infection subsides but will recur should the horse become under the weather.
 
Coming from the states and very familiar with the disease, I would advise NOT to vaccinate when the disease is at your yard. I was in your shoes and, opted not to vaccinate when we had a outbreak of strangles, the yard had over eighty horses, mine was not affected
 
Sianage said:
Please tell me you didn't give your horse antibiotics without a diagnosis :(
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We were on a yard surrounded by horses with strangles. The vet said if anyones horse developed a temperature they would give us antibiotics (presumably as this would indicate the distict possibility of them developing strangles). This is what he said and this is what I did. He was happy to prescribe them, I was happy to give them and the horse was fine.

For goodness sake get a grip.
 
Just a quick comment, I believe that the vaccination against strangles is very shortlived, so in response to the comment about a horse being vaccinated 7 years ago and still getting strangles, the vaccine would have worn off long before that.
 
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