Too much mud? am i over stressing?

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goldenchestnut

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I previously asked how you sleep at night when your horses live out 24/7. I found your replies very helpful as i'm stressing about their welfare now have our own land. On the same thread "am i over stressing ?" how much is too much mud? Our field is turning out to be really wet as the field drains are rubbish and it's clay soil. The horses are slopping around in fetlock deep soup. I've filled the field shelter with shavings and give them really good hay. Is there a stage when you have to get them off it at any cost because it's just too bad. Tell me again that they will be ok, that the field will recover and i will laugh at this one day. I should say that i've been ill with a bout of depresssion so not in the best frame of mind to deal with this.
 
goldenchestnut said:
I previously asked how you sleep at night when your horses live out 24/7. I found your replies very helpful as i'm stressing about their welfare now have our own land. On the same thread "am i over stressing ?" how much is too much mud? Our field is turning out to be really wet as the field drains are rubbish and it's clay soil. The horses are slopping around in fetlock deep soup. I've filled the field shelter with shavings and give them really good hay. Is there a stage when you have to get them off it at any cost because it's just too bad. Tell me again that they will be ok, that the field will recover and i will laugh at this one day. I should say that i've been ill with a bout of depresssion so not in the best frame of mind to deal with this.
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My ex racer lived out 24/7 last winter, no field shelter, just well rugged with ad lib hay. Areas of the field turned to deep mud, wet mud. Horse was quite happy trudging around in the mud - never got cold, never got mud fever, didn't lose weight, didn't have any hoof issues (barefoot), never looked unhappy and the field returned to lush green grass in the following spring/summer even though it wasn't rested so don't worry! The horses and the field should survive no problem x
 
OP am feeling your pain; I HATE, absolutely loathe, mucky damp weather like we've been having - my main stress area is shoes coming off/getting sucked off in it - I really can feel myself getting totally anal about it quite frequently!!:) (like today....... mare has a loose shoe, and I KNOW the flippin thing will either be off totally by tomorrow, OR - worse - she'll pull half her foot off with it).

We're on clay here too. Livery has her own field, which is drained, but where mine are isn't, and they have to go through a narrow gap which is a bit like the water jump at Badminton at the moment. But they can get down to the end bit of the field which isn't too bad TBH.

How much acreage are yours on?? Do you have a plan for rotating the fields so each bit can have a rest? I did this with mine, and it really revolutionised the whole way I was keeping them and made life a lot easier, so it might be worth having a re-think about how you divvy up your grazing. We also use sheep from a local farmer to graze the land, which is a real godsend as it improves the grass no end.

As long as your horses are OK, i.e. no signs of mud fever, plenty of hay, and dry area if they want/need it, and your shoes are staying on, and they're wormed and vaccinated etc and not losing condition at all, I'd personally try not to worry! Not easy I know when you see them slopping around in the mud.

Do you have the option of bringing them in if it does get any wetter? It might just be that they need bringing in say for the night, or just during the daytime for a few hours just to get them off the wet, whichever routine would best suit you.

Sorry meant to say that the grass WILL grow back - with a vengeance. This summer we had virtually nothing, the sheep had eaten up everything remotely green in the place, and I was worried about what everyone was going to eat. Then came the autumn - and we've got lovely lush grass now (too much in fact!).

Last winter we worried that there wasn't going to be enough grass because they'd trodden it all in. But it all grew back come the spring (having sheep helped to tread down the rutted/poached bits of field too).
 
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ImmyS said:
My ex racer lived out 24/7 last winter, no field shelter, just well rugged with ad lib hay. Areas of the field turned to deep mud, wet mud. Horse was quite happy trudging around in the mud - never got cold, never got mud fever, didn't lose weight, didn't have any hoof issues (barefoot), never looked unhappy and the field returned to lush green grass in the following spring/summer even though it wasn't rested so don't worry! The horses and the field should survive no problem x
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Thank you so very very much for reply, i'm really worried about them and need reasurance.
 
Due to underground streams converging where my lot walk down to the barn, we end up with knee deep mud, field has natural shelter, but I encourage my lot to come to the barn for ad lib hay, giving their feet chance to dry out, we now have an additional two acres mud free of good grass, so for the sake of a five minute walk, that's where they spend daylight hours
 
goldenchestnut said:
Thank you so very very much for reply, i'm really worried about them and need reasurance.
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It's natural to worry, I'm such a worrier - I was terrified last winter that nothing would recover from the bad winter, but it was all fine :) .. As long as your horses are happy, there's no need to worry x
 
As well as managing your horse, you also have to manage the land, and when it turns to slop I'm afraid that you have to be kind to the ground as well as the horse and bring horsey in. Time in out of the muck is good for the horse, his feet, and the ground. I don't see any point in forcing the horse to be out in the mud when there is no grass; ours like to be in their stables, or in the sand arena out of the wet. But ours also get plenty of exercise, so perhaps turn out is not as important.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
OP am feeling your pain; I HATE, absolutely loathe, mucky damp weather like we've been having - my main stress area is shoes coming off/getting sucked off in it - I really can feel myself getting totally anal about it quite frequently!!:) (like today....... mare has a loose shoe, and I KNOW the flippin thing will either be off totally by tomorrow, OR - worse - she'll pull half her foot off with it).

We're on clay here too. Livery has her own field, which is drained, but where mine are isn't, and they have to go through a narrow gap which is a bit like the water jump at Badminton at the moment. But they can get down to the end bit of the field which isn't too bad TBH.

How much acreage are yours on?? Do you have a plan for rotating the fields so each bit can have a rest? I did this with mine, and it really revolutionised the whole way I was keeping them and made life a lot easier, so it might be worth having a re-think about how you divvy up your grazing. We also use sheep from a local farmer to graze the land, which is a real godsend as it improves the grass no end.

As long as your horses are OK, i.e. no signs of mud fever, plenty of hay, and dry area if they want/need it, and your shoes are staying on, and they're wormed and vaccinated etc and not losing condition at all, I'd personally try not to worry! Not easy I know when you see them slopping around in the mud.

Do you have the option of bringing them in if it does get any wetter? It might just be that they need bringing in say for the night, or just during the daytime for a few hours just to get them off the wet, whichever routine would best suit you.

Sorry meant to say that the grass WILL grow back - with a vengeance. This summer we had virtually nothing, the sheep had eaten up everything remotely green in the place, and I was worried about what everyone was going to eat. Then came the autumn - and we've got lovely lush grass now (too much in fact!).

Last winter we worried that there wasn't going to be enough grass because they'd trodden it all in. But it all grew back come the spring (having sheep helped to tread down the rutted/poached bits of field too).
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Thank you. x I have two cobs on 1 1/2 acres and two welsh A's on another 1/2 acre both have field shelters. None are shod and only the vetran is rugged. Some of the field is fenced to save it and when it freezes i'll let them have the run of it. I have no where to bring them off it at the moment we only movrd here 2 months ago and it's done nothing but rain since. Ihave plans for a dry area at some time. I worry about their feet being wet all the time but i think someone said it was better that alternating between wet and dry all the time. No sign of mud fever,thank god. One is a tradie with heavy feather. I just want to scream and go home.arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
 
Cortez said:
As well as managing your horse, you also have to manage the land, and when it turns to slop I'm afraid that you have to be kind to the ground as well as the horse and bring horsey in. Time in out of the muck is good for the horse, his feet, and the ground. I don't see any point in forcing the horse to be out in the mud when there is no grass; ours like to be in their stables, or in the sand arena out of the wet. But ours also get plenty of exercise, so perhaps turn out is not as important.
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Thats the problem, other than go to livery i have no where to put them.
 
I had this problem last year as I had only just moved in and hadn't got the stables built. I didn't have too much mud but I did have a lot of standing water for most of the winter apart from when it got frosty and hard. I had to just ignore it and I let them have the whole field to minimise the damage to one area and also to let them find the driest area for themselves.
I tried shavings in the shelter and rubber mats but it kept flooding. Straw worked ok but in the end I had sand left over from the arena dumped in there and it worked really well and have them a dry area to stand.

My fields recovered well and I have now started to rotate and look after them properly as I have stables, an arena and a dry area to use. I also now have some clean stone in the gateways. These things all took time to organise and my horses had to make do. This year we harrowed, rolled, topped and weed sprayed and reseeded bare areas so it is gradually recovering. You can either make do now and resign yourself to repair and managing it once you have the facilities to rest areas or you move to livery so you can preserve it. I guess you just have to balance the costs of livery against reseeding and fertilising etc.
 
I'm afraid your main problem is too many horses on very little land. For horses living out all year round, 2 acres each is a minimum requirement.
 
glenruby said:
I'm afraid your main problem is too many horses on very little land. For horses living out all year round, 2 acres each is a minimum requirement.
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I think I agree with this, the fields will be trashed if they are too small. Our 5 probably have an acre each winter that is total muddy slop, but they have another 11 acres to go at. Whilst I get annoyed that our field is hilly and rubbish for schooling, the hills mean there is always somewhere dry and drained for them to go.

Your horses will survive, and they will be fine this winter, but in the spring you will need to put proper drains in and manage the land better. Depending on how this winter goes you may have to rent additional grazing next year as I doubt you will have any grass left in spring, sorry.
 
You cant do anything at the moment but as soon as it dries up enough I would get some terram (ground sheet which stops grass/weeds growing through) and put it down in front of/around the field shelter (assuming field shelter is on highish ground) then tip tonnes of hardcore down - you could then post ram some stakes in (or use plastic ones) and tape to keep them in that area on very wet days - it makes a huge difference to the ground - if you leave them out it sounds like you wont have enough ground to let it rest for long enough.

Meantime they will survive !!
 
like others have said, you really need some extra land so you can rotate fields and give the ground time to heal. But all mine live out 24/7 and even though its fairly well drained, we do still get mud upto our calfs by the end of a wet winter and non of my horses have ever had mud fever and would rather stand in mud than in the field shelter! (they are all a butty short of a picnic)

so dont worry about the mud, just dont be tempted to repeatedly wash or even brush their legs, feathers and a hard layer of mud will work as a barrier and help gaurd against mud fever.
 
glenruby said:
I'm afraid your main problem is too many horses on very little land. For horses living out all year round, 2 acres each is a minimum requirement.
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Absolutely right.

It's more common to see grazing used to the max and more these days. With so little acreage for so many hooves, ultimately you'll need to get them off it and stabled at night etc, maybe not this year but defiantly next. The land will recover in the spring but will always be overgrazed.
 
I completely agree you need a proper surface down in the field shelter and preferably a patch around it too. Then you can feed hay on the hard standing
 
I have nearly four acres for two horses they live out most of the time while its fairly dry, once its wet my fields get trashed if they are left out, about half an acre of my field is once small paddock which gets the wettest so I tend not to use this in winter unless its very dry or it gets bad, so mine come in at night once the fields start to get too muddy, the grass ends up running out by about January I am chucking hay out there at the moment and will do all winter during the day and they are happy to come in at night, I agree with the fact you need ample grazing if it is to be used all year round 24-7, mine is just not enough to do this I feel and would rather them in at night rather than standing in deep mud with no grass.
 
I have clay soil I have over twelve acres of grass and four horses ATM I would never attempt to manage them outside 24/7 in winter in wet weather the land would not manage and the soil structure would be too damaged .
I think you will have to look at providing a hard standing round the shelter and fence it off .
 
Elsbells said:
Absolutely right.

The land will recover in the spring but will always be overgrazed.
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Clay soil usually very little top soil one it's churned into the clay the soil takes years to recover .
Such Land will only recover in spring with a lot of work .
I rest my winter sacrifice paddock a absolute minimum of four months and sometimes six months from spring in that time we do a lot of work on it.
Pastures especially those on clay dont just recover .
 
I have clay soil and 2 living out currently 24/7. Yes their paddock is dreadfully wet and muddy, but neither are shod. My worst fear is mud fever. They are happy though. I shall be bringing these 2 in from Christmas ( I already have 3 in at night so need to delay the work of 5 in).
Last winter the 2 wintered out and survived well. One is a very fine 17hh WB and actually 2 years ago he wintered out rugless too as he wouldn't tolerate handling. He did get a mild degree of mud fever and then thrush, but then the wet summer before last brought that on to many horses too.
Keep them well rugged (if they are not native - my Dales is naked) and well fed and they will be fine. Maybe think about a set of mobile stables (if planning is a problem) or a hard standing area you could create with crushed concrete and road planings with a field shelter next summer for the followning winter.
 
Heavy clay is a nightmare We moved 4 years ago from 7 acres of pasture (heavy clay) We had 4 horses and had to stable overnight to save the land in winter, sometimes from 4 pm tuning out 7am .We also shut off 3 acres all winter so we had grass to go to in spring whie the rest recovered (which it did)
We now have 15 acres of well drained sandy soil and the 4 horse now live out 24/7 all year round with a massive pole barn bedded down with straw and hay fed at the back of it(75 ft long 25ft deep) for shelter .
Even here we have a huge hardstanding (planings over deep rubble base ) that they can be confined to if needed. It is 100 ft long and 40 ft deep and has access into the fields).They come into the stables every
day for a couple of hours so the oldies can have a feed.
You probably need to construct a hardstanding area around the field shelters solidly fenced that the horses can be confined to during bad weather as large as you can mange and well drained.Dug out and then topped with scalpings or road planings so as not to be slippery in frosty weather.
Clay is a nightare after managing it for many years I feel your pain
 
glenruby said:
I'm afraid your main problem is too many horses on very little land. For horses living out all year round, 2 acres each is a minimum requirement.
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Not necessarily correct. I had up until recently 6 on 4 acres, (I lost my little New Forest mare on the 12th of last month) ,this is split into three fields. A large one which is shut off at Christmas and the small one is kept as a standby.

Mine live out 24/7 twelve months a year. Due to the weather this year I have still got plenty of grass. At the moment I am not feeding any Hay. They are fed a good feed in the evening and a small token one in the morning. They are able to get into a large field shelter and the stables which are all bedded down with shavings. They are rugged up as appropriate.

Good management means that they can live out all year round.

Since having them out all the time I find they are more healthier and happier too.
 
I think so much depens on the soil, we have 5 acres ( but within that a ménage and walkway) spilt in to 8 paddocks, and 4 horses.
They spent 6 months in one paddock each, then swap for 6 months to a fresh one, so have just over half an acre at a time and we never ever have mud, but the soil is incredibly sandy and we allow the resting half to grow very long and go to seed which seems to give a very strong root structure and prevent poaching.

We are lucky I know.

OP you need to fence an area around the shelter and put down hard standing, and restrict them to that area for at least half the day until it freezes or you are go into have a huge bog to sort out come spring.
 
Hello, have you heard of paddock paradise?(also called track system) As it is your own land it may be the way to go for you?Have a look on the Paddock paradise website and facebook page :) There is also a great book you can buy about it. You can then have lots of horses on a small amount of land without having to rest it + even better than having the horses in a "boring" field! :)
Feel free to pm me for more info.
 
I was on clay for 8 years and 24/7 winter turnout was very difficult due to waterlogging. I tried to keep them out but it wasn't really do-able, even with a massive field.
I have seen good results with mole draining - perhaps that could be something to look at for next year.
 
Too many horses, on too small an acreage, and the worst type of soil!

Bearing in mind we are still in Autumn, your fields will have at least 5 mnths of crappy weather to endure and you will be left with a mud bath. Yes it will be recoverable but only at considerable expense and will require a lot of resting.

You need to create an area of hardstanding to keep them off the fields for a portion of every day - if not look for more land to rent or possibly move a couple of them onto grass livery.

Sorry to be so negative but having had 5 acres of clay for just 2 horses, I have been there and done it! And ours came in at night.....
 
Oh dear. Started positive then went down hill. Wish i'd never asked now. Hard standing is in the planning for the future and we have a drainage contractor to come and quote but for now i can just do my best i suppose.
 
YasandCrystal said:
I have clay soil and 2 living out currently 24/7. Yes their paddock is dreadfully wet and muddy, but neither are shod. My worst fear is mud fever. They are happy though. I shall be bringing these 2 in from Christmas ( I already have 3 in at night so need to delay the work of 5 in).
Last winter the 2 wintered out and survived well. One is a very fine 17hh WB and actually 2 years ago he wintered out rugless too as he wouldn't tolerate handling. He did get a mild degree of mud fever and then thrush, but then the wet summer before last brought that on to many horses too.
Keep them well rugged (if they are not native - my Dales is naked) and well fed and they will be fine. Maybe think about a set of mobile stables (if planning is a problem) or a hard standing area you could create with crushed concrete and road planings with a field shelter next summer for the followning winter.
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Thanks for being positive.xx
 
Randonneuse said:
Hello, have you heard of paddock paradise?(also called track system) As it is your own land it may be the way to go for you?Have a look on the Paddock paradise website and facebook page :) There is also a great book you can buy about it. You can then have lots of horses on a small amount of land without having to rest it + even better than having the horses in a "boring" field! :)
Feel free to pm me for more info.
Click to expand...

Thanks, yes heard about it and will look into it.
 
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