Too much of a good doer

Hazkirbo

Hazkirbo

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As the title suggests, Harley is too much of a good doer (aka fat).
I'm really struggling with ideas that'll help manage his weight & so is my vet. Here's our current situation:
- In during the day with ad-lib soaked hay
- Out at night with minimal grass, cannot be in a bare paddock as he will jump/go through any height of fencing so he does need *some* grass
- He has a small handful of graze-on to incorporate supplements (turmeric for joints, linseed oil, chamomile/red bush tea for his sweet itch) once a day

He is usually in regular work, however I was on a much-needed holiday last week and I've come back and he's fat. He had about 2 weeks off and has gained loads of weight. Yard owner was looking after him & all his routine maintained the same, however he had no exercise.

He has been tested for PPID, EMS and another thing that I can't remember the name of. All came back negative.

Vet has suggested muzzle but dentist has advised against it, he also suggested starving over winter. I'm stressing about laminitis now after the rain we've had.

ANY suggestions would be kindly appreciated; diet and exercise. Loosing the will to live now :(
 
Rather than ad-lib soaked hay when he is in, I would give him *some* hay, soaked or not as you choose, he can have more if it's soaked, and a big trug of plain oat straw chaff (Halley's or Honeychop, not Top Chop Zero). That will keep his digestive system working, keep him full and eating while allowing him to use weight. I used that method with my Draft horse who was obese when I bought her, having been fed on cheap sugary, starch, coarse mix with light work for the year before I got her, after having been in full work before then in a different home. She eventually lost 200kg.
 
I believe in giving ad lib forage but there is a limit and with the really good doers you do need to restrict it a bit as most do not have an off switch, I would cut back the hay and if riding straight from the stable give him his token feed before exercise to line his tummy.

I would increase the exercise as much as you can and increase the faster work once he is slim enough to do more, it is surprising how much they burn off cantering and jumping and most do not do enough spending more time walking than they need, they walk around the field constantly so in my mind the exercise needs to be at least 80% trot and canter to really count towards weight loss, obviously they need breaks and have to be fit enough and it needs to be built up steadily.
 
Chopped straw works well when theres no off switch.

Exercise helps a lot of them. Once mine got up to around 12 to 15k mainly trotting with the odd canter and walk break, interspersed with 45 mins schooling sessions with lots of canter, the weight dropped off and he needed hard feed. I am lucky and he does regulate himself to a certain degree but out of work on ad lib hay and grazing he would be fat. In his current level of work he gets low sugar high oil feeds, and ad lib first cut meadow hay and he looks and feels good!
 
My friend has started to weight her welsh section As hay as they were both porky despite limited turn out, mostly on wood chip pens and what she thought was not too much hay. It was amazing how little they needed for their healthy body weight (I think she did 1.5% for a bit and then 2% after they lost a little weight and are now in more work)
I agree with not starving/ that is dangerous and causes other issues. But it is very easy to be too generous. Preferably you want to be able to slplit the hay portions up if they tend to pig and eat too quickly so they don’t have ages with out.

Mine are on a track which really helps keep them moving (I’m 9 months pregnant and 1 is retired and the other 2 live on fresh air like yours!)
 
I wouldn't feed hay. only chopped straw. If he is getting grass and he is fat he doesn't need hay. If you don't want to do that I'd put him in a completely bare paddock with a bucket of chopped straw and an extremely strong electric fence.
 
With the chopped straw which seems to be around £12 to £16.00 for 12.5 or 15kg, how much would you feed to a big cobby type ?

I have a big horse in need of dropping some weight, he is in the day and having soaked hay which he finishes in a nano second. The chopped straw might keep him occupied longer but seems a very expensive feed.
 
I double net soaked hay when in and have taken out the centre of my field with electric fence so they have a mini track to go around. Soaked hay in field gets spread around the track. Fibre blocks are good for entertainment too.

I have two drafts. One drops weight nicely and the other came from a meat breeding herd and never seems to shift blubber.
 
AdorableAlice said:
With the chopped straw which seems to be around £12 to £16.00 for 12.5 or 15kg, how much would you feed to a big cobby type ?

I have a big horse in need of dropping some weight, he is in the day and having soaked hay which he finishes in a nano second. The chopped straw might keep him occupied longer but seems a very expensive feed.
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I fed cobs chopped straw just in a trug and she usually ate about half in a day without grass. She did lose weight.
 
My fatties are in almost bear but large paddock with muzzles on. With straw/soaked hay they just stand around in the sun and eat all day, which doesn't help much with shifting weight in the summer (much as I am sure they would enjoy it).

A question, though: is chopped straw/feeding straw better to feed than long strand stuff/bedding straw? If yes, then why? or is it just a matter of personal preference?
 
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Chinchilla said:
A question, though: is chopped straw/feeding straw better to feed than long strand stuff/bedding straw? If yes, then why? or is it just a matter of personal preference?
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I can't find long straw good enough to feed up here. long oat straw gets more difficult to find the further north you go and the wheat/barley straw harvest was almost non-existent last year and I've seen enough straw impaction colics to make me wary of feeding loads of it.

Personally I think the trend of having ad lib hay for natives and cobs is partly responsible for how much obesity we see. having hay all the time doesn't mean stuffing their faces 24/7 and many won't loose much weight on soaked hay if they have too much (my Fell for example does better on hay than the Exmoor I've found). Moor bred rarely self regulate ime-they are programmed to eat what's there at any time-it might not be there if they wait and I expect some cobs are the same.


walking, if you do enough of it (if you have the time!) with purpose will help get the weight off-most horses don't have paddocks that are conducive to enough walking and feeding them forage outside means they just stand and eat.
 
AdorableAlice said:
With the chopped straw which seems to be around £12 to £16.00 for 12.5 or 15kg, how much would you feed to a big cobby type ?

I have a big horse in need of dropping some weight, he is in the day and having soaked hay which he finishes in a nano second. The chopped straw might keep him occupied longer but seems a very expensive feed.
Click to expand...

I fed the obese Draft horse, who was meant to be a big girl, 16hh Westphalian Kaltblut, barrel on (short) legs, (I think you have seen a picture of her on here) 2 bags of Honeychop per week when she was at her heaviest. She had one of the biggest trugs, that we usually use as water buckets, full each night. It isn't cheap but it is cheaper than the vet bills which could potentially have been incurred, if she hadn't had it. It worked because when she realised that there would always be food available she stopped gulping it down as if she thought she wouldn't see food again for a week and then I could decrease the amount I gave her. It isn't particularly tasty, so they only eat it if they really need to do so.


ETA, Chinchilla, I did feed my mare on long straw for a while but she was prone to colic, so I swapped to chaff.
 
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Pearlsasinger said:
I fed the obese Draft horse, who was meant to be a big girl, 16hh Westphalian Kaltblut, barrel on (short) legs, (I think you have seen a picture of her on here) 2 bags of Honeychop per week when she was at her heaviest. She had one of the biggest trugs, that we usually use as water buckets, full each night. It isn't cheap but it is cheaper than the vet bills which could potentially have been incurred, if she hadn't had it. It worked because when she realised that there would always be food available she stopped gulping it down as if she thought she wouldn't see food again for a week and then I could decrease the amount I gave her. It isn't particularly tasty, so they only eat it if they really need to do so.


ETA, Chinchilla, I did feed my mare on long straw for a while but she was prone to colic, so I swapped to chaff.
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Oh, OK! Thank you for clarifying! My unspotty spotty mare stole loads of long strand stuff over winter but wouldn't eat the (expensive) short chop. Didn't colic though despite her idiotic kleptomaniac tendencies. :p
 
I use a track system and Ossichaff plain and simple the ponies dont like it much but will eat it is really hungry. My view is they will be fine with self regulation. They have one slice of soaked hay a bucket of ossichaff and a narrow bare track between two of them. Little pony lost 100 kgs over winter has put a bit back on, Laminitic pony will likely need rugs and feed over winter as he hasnt gained any weight over summer and so doesnt have a lot to lose. They all looked sleek and slim in April
 
I have used normal long straw, probably barley straw I guess, mixed with hay in nets, takes much longer for them to tease the strands of hay out and the straw is there if really hungry
 
AdorableAlice said:
With the chopped straw which seems to be around £12 to £16.00 for 12.5 or 15kg, how much would you feed to a big cobby type ?

I have a big horse in need of dropping some weight, he is in the day and having soaked hay which he finishes in a nano second. The chopped straw might keep him occupied longer but seems a very expensive feed.
Click to expand...

I feed honey chop life and healthy and my good doer maintains a steady weight. A friends of mine feeds hers ossi chaff plain and simple, which I believe is a total hay replacer so can be fed adlib and has no nasties in it.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I can't find long straw good enough to feed up here. long oat straw gets more difficult to find the further north you go and the wheat/barley straw harvest was almost non-existent last year and I've seen enough straw impaction colics to make me wary of feeding loads of it.

Personally I think the trend of having ad lib hay for natives and cobs is partly responsible for how much obesity we see. having hay all the time doesn't mean stuffing their faces 24/7 and many won't loose much weight on soaked hay if they have too much (my Fell for example does better on hay than the Exmoor I've found). Moor bred rarely self regulate ime-they are programmed to eat what's there at any time-it might not be there if they wait and I expect some cobs are the same.


walking, if you do enough of it (if you have the time!) with purpose will help get the weight off-most horses don't have paddocks that are conducive to enough walking and feeding them forage outside means they just stand and eat.
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My NF was born on the forest as well so has NO off switch. She'd eat all day, every day if she could; even when it was 29 C, she was out in the full sun munching away :eek3:

With straw (it's not too hard to find down here) is one type better than another to feed, mixed with hay? Also if impaction colic is a risk, can you prevent it whilst still feeding straw, or is the only way to ensure it won't happen just to not feed straw? Sorry for all the stupid questions xD
 
Chinchilla said:
My NF was born on the forest as well so has NO off switch. She'd eat all day, every day if she could; even when it was 29 C, she was out in the full sun munching away :eek3:

With straw (it's not too hard to find down here) is one type better than another to feed, mixed with hay? Also if impaction colic is a risk, can you prevent it whilst still feeding straw, or is the only way to ensure it won't happen just to not feed straw? Sorry for all the stupid questions xD
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with straw they need to have good teeth-so teeth need checked regularly. traditionally you feed oat straw as it's softer and more digestible, wheat straw is not that palatable and barley straw has a high percentage of lignin which is not that digestible. Most straw is sprayed with round up/equivalent before cutting and baling. They need more water if feeding straw, the impactions I used to see (I was a EVN at a very large equine hospital) were often (but not always) in heavy breed horses fed straw to save money and keep their weight down and would occur in hot, or very cold weather. Amd movement is important-another thing that decreases in very hot and very cold temps.

Now I've fed all types of straw in a limited way through the years and my personal choice is to not feed it-I dont think its wrong or shouldnt be done, just that I choose not to and of course many people feed it without any issues whatsoever but people need to make an informed choice. I keep both mine on straw in the winter (barley as its the only one I can get locally when I can get it) and they really dont eat much of it at all.
 
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MotherOfChickens said:
with straw they need to have good teeth-so teeth need checked regularly. traditionally you feed oat straw as it's softer and more digestible, wheat straw is not that palatable and barley straw has a high percentage of lignin which is not that digestible. Most straw is sprayed with round up/equivalent before cutting and baling. They need more water if feeding straw, the impactions I used to see (I was a EVN at a very large equine hospital) were often (but not always) in heavy breed horses fed straw to save money and keep their weight down and would occur in hot, or very cold weather. Amd movement is important-another thing that decreases in very hot and very cold temps.

Now I've fed all types of straw in a limited way through the years and my personal choice is to not feed it-I dont think its wrong or shouldnt be done, just that I choose not to and of course many people feed it without any issues whatsoever but people need to make an informed choice. I keep both mine on straw in the winter (barley as its the only one I can get locally when I can get it) and they really dont eat much of it at all.
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Can you soak straw before feeding? Not soaking as you would with hay to reduce the WSC content, literally just dunking it in water to increase water intake? Also if I put a few smaller piles around the field they'd be walking to get it too. I think I'll speak to the vet and dentist about it when they're around next. Thanks for your help though :)
 
I feed long oat straw and chopped oat straw (efeed) during the day, out but muzzled at night. Both types of straw is dampened. My horses only eat it if hungry and don't guzzle it and have lost weight successfully. Both are exercised regularly.
 
I watch my 2 and realise how different they are in terms of their attitude to food. The Appy just doesn't have an off switch. If its there, she'll eat it. She was hand reared as a foal and I think has a lot of anxiety around food. When she had a straw bed overnight she'd eat most of that as well and would be bloated and sleepy in the morning. She can't have ad lib - she doesn't self regulate and gets fat quickly. I've found at the moment when she runs out of hay in the paddock (which is verging on dry lot) then she'll snooze and chat to the other horses, but if hay is out or if there is grass then she'll eat and eat. With ongoing lameness issues I can only really control her weight through diet at the moment.
 
I don't know about your horse but my pony will eat whatever I give him so I don't give him ad lib hay when trying to lose weight! He'd stuff his face with hay all day then go out at night and eat grass all night lol. What I've done with my fat NF pony was to figure out his current weight and figure calories in vs calories out effectively. They need around 2% of their bodyweight in forage per day to maintain. To lose weight go down to 1.5%. They eat around 0.6kg of grass per hour of grazing (in a light-moderately covered field). So I worked out how long he will be grazing for (maybe 70% of the time if out at night and 30% sleeping) to work out how much he will get from grass. Then made up the rest with soaked hay in a greedyfeeder haynet. So he is out for about 12 hours, will probably graze for say 8 of those. 8*0.6 = 4.8kg. He was 480kg so to maintain would need 9.6, to lose he would need 7.2kg forage / day. 4.8kg from grass and I made the rest up with hay.

Some horses will self regulate how much food they need but unfortunately not all (like mine) will! He's lost 35kg in about a month and his little fat pocket on his side is nearly gone! I also increased his exercise a little too which probably helped. That's worked for me :)
 
Another one with a fatty that is a very good do-er and no self regulation. It's not that he only has to see a blade of hay and he puts on weight but he only has to see it and he eats it, his life's priorities one, two and three are the quest for food. Barley straw is a key component of our weight control strategy. It is damped either with a hose or bucket of water thrown over the net. He has a feed of bran with just enough molasses-free mix to make it palatable, to try and counteract the impaction risk with straw. i've also found the fibre blocks - equiblox or similar - useful when i want to give him something to keep him occupied
 
Personally if he were mine Id leave out 24/7 so he's moving around all the time rather than not using up any calories standing in his stable all night. Id make his paddock smaller, if he's a jumper-outer then Id use the high electric fence posts and ensure the electric was working well (ideally mains). If you're really worried he'll jump out as there's not enough grass then Id possibly consider giving him a haylage (small holed) net of soaked hay. Id cut out the linseed oil, why are you feeding it OP out of interest? Its just extra calories IMO. Otherwise, Id up the exercise even if its just lunging.
 
MagicMelon said:
Personally if he were mine Id leave out 24/7 so he's moving around all the time rather than not using up any calories standing in his stable all night. Id make his paddock smaller, if he's a jumper-outer then Id use the high electric fence posts and ensure the electric was working well (ideally mains). If you're really worried he'll jump out as there's not enough grass then Id possibly consider giving him a haylage (small holed) net of soaked hay. Id cut out the linseed oil, why are you feeding it OP out of interest? Its just extra calories IMO. Otherwise, Id up the exercise even if its just lunging.
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Surely leaving out to move about, but in restricted paddock is counter productive?
 
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