Too much saliva causing headshaking?

[Elle123]

Hello,
Just wondering what you thought of this and if anyone had any ideas.
My warmblood mare (in my sig) Beanie started head shaking last year which i personally was triggered by a particular incident but i wont go into that. She headshakes not in the usual manner but in a very violent head swing and cock to the left then runs flat out (she has hit the gate with me on 3 times )

) We had had veterinary investigations but have come to the conclusion she is basically gonna panic as when i talk to her and stroke her neck when she does it she calms down and relaxes after a while. The only thing i am finding now is it seems that when her saliva starts to build up when she has worked hard for 20mins or so it seems to irritate and make her shake more. She is in a neue schule tranz losange snaffle for dressage and a neue schule universal gag for hacking and jumping. Before this she was in a happy mouth gag that just doesnt work for her. She used to have a problem with not salivating enough! and when she has a little salivation (as in not spilling out of her mouth) she is much more relaxed

. Was wondering whether is was the aciditity and smothering vasaline around her mouth would help. or whether there is a supplement?
A bitless bridle is out of the question she doesnt even do well with the pressure of a headcollar across her nose

by her face shape i think she has had an accident.

thank you in advance for any help

Elle
x

 

[Orangehorse]

I thought that excess salivation is a sign of tension? If you look at some dressage competitions the horses have their jaw crammed into their necks and the saliva is just running out of their mouths. Not good.

You could ask Dr. Deb on the Equine Studies Institute pages - but she is a bit sharp with her comments and rather assumes that everyone is an idiot (well compared to her maybe we ARE idiots as she is super intelligent and has multiple university degrees). But there is a lot to learn and she is an absolute expert on what goes on underneath the skin. She is not a vet and won't answer questions that you should be asking a vet.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

I don't have any experience of headshaking Elle, but I would have thought that the cause and effect you decribe were the other way round. Rather than your ned producing excess saliva and it causing headshaking, I would have thought that the problem that causes her to headshake CAUSES the excess saliva. There is some evidence to suggest that really bad headshaking like your girl's is linked to damage to the facial nerves. If something is triggering pain in this area for your girl, it is likely that it would stimulate the salivary glands too. Have you tried her in a nosenet?

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

A bit can cause facial neuralgia, which in turn would lead to head shaking, but to me it sounds as though you are using the wrong bit, which is causing the excess salivating. The head tossing etc, is basically your horse telling you she's uncomfortable and unhappy. Bits trigger the eating response....i.e. you have to have saliva to swallow your food....and it sounds as though the bit is impeding her ability to swallow. Try her in a bitless bridle, or at least change her bit.

Just as an aside...there's far too much emphasis on the horse salivating when ridden thing. It doesen't mean the horse is working well, accepting the bit or being obedient etc., it means the horse just can't swallow properly.

 

[ruscara]

If this were my horse, I would certainly be getting a very good equine dentist or specialist vet to check out her teeth and jaw. It does sound as if she is extremely uncomfortable - in pain - and this is why she is salivating and head shaking. I would want to discount any source of pain at the start of my investigations.
I hope you can find the reasons for your girl's behaviour.

 

[Elle123]

Hello,
thank you for all your replies.
She has had a full veterinary investigation including endoscopy(ears and nose), xrays, bute and finadine (sp) trials, both with no improvement, eye tests, blood tests, you name it really. Had teeth done, has back done often (my sister is a mctimoney corly animal manipulation, sports massage and soon to be physiotherapist!) She has been doing these things for about a year and i havent pushed her and have done everything possible to try and help her.
Sorry i'm not very good at explaining things, i dont think that salivating means she was comfortable, it was her way of going and how she was reacting. we are very in tune and i know her inside out. This headshaking (not caused by a stress response) only happens when you can physically see the saliva building around her mouth.
A bitless bridle wouldnt work for her because of her reaction to nose pressure.
I hope ive responded to all ideas.
thank you again

Elle
x

 

[unicornleather]

The most over looked cause of head shaking is a front (browband) that is too short, this has the effect of pulling the headpiece of the bridle onto the back of the ears which can irritate the horse to distraction.
Make sure your front is loose enough to get 2 fingers underneath it.
If you can at least this eliminates this as a cause.
Oz

 

[feldon]

Dont know how much help this will be but my quirky mare used to fling her head up loads, lots of dribbling!!

I was told by a bitting person that this is because her tongue is too big to fit in her mouth with a thick bit and so it prevents her swallowing (also had prob with her putting tongue over bit which apparently is also caused by her pulling tongue up into back of head to try and swallow).

Now have her in a neue schule bit with a curved mouthpiece (think its called a verbinend?) and a thin mouthpiece and it has completely elimiated both problems.

 

[Resupgirl]

Sounds like something is worrying her.

Have you had an instructor watch you ride as I had exactly the same sort of thing with my youngster I was convinced she had something wrong and it turned out I was too tight through my right side hand and leg.

At the time I felt crap my ego was bruised as it took a very good friend to tell me that in the nicest possible way. I was lucky but if I did not look at myself first I would now be shelling out for vets, dentists.

Just a thought and please don't take this post the wrong way its just hard to find an answer sometimes I am trying the help.

 

[scallywags]

[ QUOTE ]
This headshaking (not caused by a stress response) only happens when you can physically see the saliva building around her mouth.
Elle x

[/ QUOTE ]

If the headshaking only ever happens when the saliva builds up. It does sound like shes having trouble swallowing. Horses will naturally salivate when bitted as said above it triggers the eating responce. But they should swallow it like normal, it shouldn't flow out there mouth's!
I sell myler bits, and by the sounds of it, your girl has a large tongue / low palate / large bit problem, preventing her from lifting her tongue to swallow. So I would advise going for a low ported mouthpiece, thats narrower than your current bit. This will allow her to lift her tongue to swallow, and in theory should stop the headshaking, if the excess saliva is the cause.

I dont know what the advertising rules are on here (so I wont put a link to my site) but if you would like me to advise on a particular bit, feel free to PM me, and I'll happily help.
I do 21 day bit trials, so if it dosnt help, you only loose £5 for the rental

Jill