Too much work for a 20 year old horse?

[PipsqueakXy22]

Hi so about 3 months ago I started part loaning a 20 year old horse 3 times a week as I wanted something I can do a bit more with, nothing spectacular just a few shows, and have the odd jumping lesson now and then... But I have Come to find that his owner actually already does a lot with him. She rides him almost every day, competes him in elementary dressage and takes him out showjumping. On my days I go up in the evenings but she will already have ridden him in the morning. She seems very keen for me to do lessons with him, but for instance last week I had a showjumping lesson from a regular visiting instructor to the yard (which she had suggested I try) I assumed she meant that I would do the lesson instead of her but instead she did a jumping lesson in the morning then I did a jumping lesson in the evening… in all honesty I don’t even know why she needs a sharer, though I assume it might be something to do with costs…

The thing is he doesn’t seem to struggle too much, except from lack of energy sometimes but he is the push button type of horse and I’ve been told he’s been that way all his life. But I still can’t help but feel guilty for doing all this on a 20 year old horse… I know I’m quite soft and over protective when it comes to horses but I don’t want to push him to the point he’s crippled before retiring him. If he were my horse I’d only be riding him once a day, jumping him once a week maybe twice max etc… but currently he’s being ridden twice a day on my days, jumped maybe 3 times per week by his owner, and if I jump him, which I have been doing every other week, then it’s 4 times. Plus the lady gets two lessons per week, I ususallt do about one, meaning he’s doing 3 lessons per week. On top of this he’s out competing 1-3 times per month… just seems like an awful lot for a 20 year old horse… My own horse is 13 and semi retired only hacking and light schooling 3/4 times per week, but he does have arithis and other lameness issues…hence why I wanted another share horse to do a bit more with… the thing is he seems to be sound and fit, and everyone comments on how good he looks for his age, which he does look amazing, I don’t think you could tell he was 20 by looking at him. The only thing is he gets his hocks injecting once a year I believe, though I’m not sure for what.

I guess I just wonder whether or not it’s worthwhile continuing the share, had this been an 8 year old horse I would probably have no issues but it’s the fact that he’s 20…like I say he’s sound but sometimes he seems like he lacks energy… so some days I come down in the evening wanting to school or hack - nothing intense! Just a 20 mins schooling session, or perhaps go for a little short canter round the fields but find he seems tired since he had a lesson with his owner in the morning so instead I go for a gentle walk only round the field…but it seems like a lot of money to be paying to walk a horse round the field (when I could really just do that on my own horse)… I am quite fond of him, but I keep thinking it’s a bit pointless for me to come (and pay for it)…

like I say he seems to cope fine other than lack of energy, I’m just not sure if it’s all in my head and I could potentially just school him even if he’s been ridden in the morning…the owner seems very keen for me to do lots she’s always asking if I want to do a lesson or a show etc…

any thoughts/ advice? What would you do?

 

[FlyingCircus]

No way I'd be paying to share a horse that is already ridden on "my" days. Sounds like the owner just wants some extra money!

 

[ycbm]

I would stop the loan. It doesn't sound like a true loan, it sounds as if she's just hiring out an older horse like he was in a riding school, poor boy.
.

 

[spotty_pony]

I wouldn’t be concerned about work everyday if he is fit and well but working twice is taking it a bit far - on your days the horse should be your responsibility, therefore she shouldn’t be riding him on your days. If it was me, I’d either speak to her and explain your thoughts or look for something else.

 

[jhoward]

Realistically how many hours of work is he actually doing? That's possibly the question that needs asking

It may seem out of the normal but 1.5 hours work isn't actually that much ( for example)

 

[Goldenstar]

TBH the jumping sounds a bit much for an oldie and that’s more lessons than I like my horses to have and they are in the prime of their working lives .
I think I would end the arrangement.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

Realistically how many hours of work is he actually doing? That's possibly the question that needs asking

It may seem out of the normal but 1.5 hours work isn't actually that much ( for example)

proabably 45 mins to hour a day by his owner but I would like to do more with him, like go for an hour hack or School him 30 mins but I feel guilty for pushing him when he seems to already lack the energy…I feel as though he’s tired by the time I ride, though I’m told he’s just a laid back push button Horse

 

[jhoward]

Ask to ride him in a morning, see if he feels any different?

 

[Gloi]

I wouldn't consider that a lot of work for a horse if he is sound. Most horses get too little exercise. If you think he may have already done a harder session in the morning take him for a hack

 

[Rowreach]

For a sound older horse, not working them enough is usually the thing that breaks them. I've had a few that I've regularly hunted well into their twenties.

I would, however, be concerned about him working 7 days a week and sometimes twice in one day, if it's schooling and jumping. A mooch round a hack as a second bit of exercise in the day wouldn't bother me too much, so long as he is getting enough downtime and enough (appropriate) feed.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Sounds like you need to clarify with the owner what sort of "share" she thinks is right and fair, because if I was "sharing" a horse and had him for an agreed "3 days a week" then I certainly wouldn't expect to rock-up to the yard and find he'd already done something that day! Bleddi cheek!

Frankly think the owner is taking the Yellow Liquid big-time; you are basically the bill-payer - but are getting nothing for your contribution!

I personally think TWO jumping lessons in one day is unacceptable for a 20yo horse; I wouldn't do it to my girl who's 9 next week, let alone a 20yo. That is really not fair, end of, and I think it says everything about the sort of person the owner is who would allow their horse to be used like this. Sorry but I think she is expecting you to pay the bills but get none of the benefits of the "loan", and I say that as someone who has been both a loaner AND a loanee. If you are contributing towards the "share" or "loan" (or whatever you want to call it) then on "your" allocated day you should expect sole use of the horse. You are being taken for a ride my friend - but actually, saying that, that is exactly what you are NOT getting, i.e. your ride!! You are not being allowed your "ride" on "your day"!! Are you??

Feel very sorry for this poor old horse too; what a shame that his owner is obviously treating him like a cash-cow, WTF is wrong with some people.

You obviously don't feel right about the situation; and my counsel would be to end the "share" (that isn't a "share") forthwith. This isn't fair either to the horse or to you.

 

[Regandal]

For a sound older horse, not working them enough is usually the thing that breaks them. I've had a few that I've regularly hunted well into their twenties.

I would, however, be concerned about him working 7 days a week and sometimes twice in one day, if it's schooling and jumping. A mooch round a hack as a second bit of exercise in the day wouldn't bother me too much, so long as he is getting enough downtime and enough (appropriate) feed.

You would hope that the owner would do the easier ride, and let the (paying) loaner get the more energetic ride on her days.

 

[throwawayaccount]

Not really fair on the horse… or you.

my old horse who I part loaned out was 19/20 and during that time he had a lovely teenager twice a week. Only she rode him on her days and would always hack one day and the other whatever she pleased. He was very fit but we were conscientious of his age and never ever pushed him.
if for whatever reason he was off work (ie pulled a shoe) she would borrow my other pony for that day, who was an old lady (about 23/24) just to play with. Although, she was very fit too!

At the end of the day horses aren’t machines.

 

[SO1]

If you are not getting what you want from the share then there is not much point continuing. I think 2 jumping lessons in the same day is too much and if the horse is a schoolmaster he probably does not need the jumping for training it is the rider that gets the benefit of learning on an established horse.

I would say being ridden twice a day in the school and schooled or jumped is different from being ridden twice a day if the other ride is a hack.

What this lady probably needs if she needs a sharer for financial reasons and she wants to mainly school and jump is someone who wants to mainly do some gentle hacking.

Even riding school horses who do more than one lesson a day tend to have a day off. It seems that this horse never has a day off.

Is this horse a good doer does it perhaps need a lot of exercise to control its weight and how long have you been sharing perhaps the horse is ridden a lot less outside of the competition season by it's owner so maybe in the winter months it might just be you riding.

 

[Peglo]

If it was my 20yr old I wouldn’t want him to be ridden that much (or that many lessons/jumping per week) so wouldn’t want to do it to someone else’s horse. But I’m pretty soft. You don’t sound very comfortable with the set up and I also think she may be using you for money so I would be ending it.

 

[Cragrat]

"IF"the horse is ound and happy, then 2 hours a day is fine- movemnt is definitely good, and most older horses do better kept going, unless lame. But 2 jumping lessons a week would be a bit much, let alone 2 a day.

However, I do think the owner is taking the mick by asking you to pay, and still riding on 'your' days.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

Thanks everyone at least I now know it’s not just me overreacting… he does get a day off but 6 days of what I’d say is quite intensive work..

I was hoping for more of an arrangement like throwawayaccount mentioned. I don’t mind gentle hacks sometimes but seems I do it all the time for fear of over working him. Even in my jumping lesson last week (which I only found out she did a lesson before me when the instructor said) I immediately gelt so guilty, and had even finished early as I told the instructor I think he’s tired already. And like Regandal said I would hope that I’m paying (and I am paying quite a lot) she would do the more gentle ride if she really had to ride him.

I will speak to the owner.

 

[Ratface]

I feel a number of things about the owner of this horse. None of them pleasant.

 

[Gingerwitch]

How much financial contribution is she actually expecting?
I would be more concerned about a 2nd jump lesson straight after from the point of both the horses and your neck. Drops a leg if he is tired, traps a pole or can't quite recover, you could ge under a half ton horse.

I also think she is not a very nice person, and Lord help you if he gets injured on your watch, I would be mindful you could be paying all the vets bills

 

[J&S]

I am not sure how long you have had this share for, if it is reasonably recently then he may look fit and well at this point in time but perhaps if the new regime carries on he will start to lag. With a share I think (and have experienced) that each party should have a defined role. One more active to include the jumping and schooling for dressage\competition etc, and the other to hack the horse and allow him some "active" downtime, could even include a fun ride or two but straight line work on different surfaces.

Rather than wait to see if he starts to get tired out I would address the issue now, as you say, speak to the owner and make appropriate arrangements regarding the horse and your finacial input.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Thanks everyone at least I now know it’s not just me overreacting… he does get a day off but 6 days of what I’d say is quite intensive work..

I was hoping for more of an arrangement like throwawayaccount mentioned. I don’t mind gentle hacks sometimes but seems I do it all the time for fear of over working him. Even in my jumping lesson last week (which I only found out she did a lesson before me when the instructor said) I immediately gelt so guilty, and had even finished early as I told the instructor I think he’s tired already. And like Regandal said I would hope that I’m paying (and I am paying quite a lot) she would do the more gentle ride if she really had to ride him.

I will speak to the owner.

^^^ Further to my earlier post I think this displays exactly why you should call it a day on this "share". Poor horse. Not fair on you or him. Shame on the owner!

 

[SO1]

If the horse is having annual hock injections it probably has arthritis and is having steroid injections to maintain soundness.

My 20 year old pony has just been diagnosed with arthritis. He will be having gel injections and the vet has said lots of walking and gentle exercise is best for arthritis. Long term soundness is my goal I would rather do less for longer than go full on for a shorter period of time and retire earlier however I appreciate not everyone is like this and many horses with arthritis do continue to jump and compete.

Obviously up to you but if horse goes lame due to arthritis flare up will you be blamed for overdoing it?

 

[Ratface]

Old Horse is rising 30 and is in light regular work. He has mild arthritis in his hocks. He's ridden 2-3 times a week, for 30-40 minutes at a steady walk, mostly on local off-road grass byways, or 20 minutes walk/trot canter in straight lines in the sand school. If he's in a silly mood, I just attempt to walk!