Too young to be in work?

For 400 pounds hopefully someone with their heads screwed on will buy him, turn him out for a year or so, restart, and they'll have a nice little pony at the end of it.

I would. He looks a decent sort.

No point worrying about the "is or isn't he too young?" for this one, he has been - fact.
 
You can 'break' a very young pony to drive without asking them to do any serious work. It can give a young pony a good mouth, handle them 'til they're bombproof and get them ready to accept being ridden later with almost no further work. I'd rather see a small pony broken and 'worked' like this for a couple of years than backed by someone far too large at 3 or 4 years old, when their back / legs just aren't ready. Should be short sessions, and light load only. (Get out and 'ground-drive' the hills).

Worked a treat with a bolshy 2 year old colt of mine, who is now a stallion your granny could drive, that gives babies rides at the local fete.
 
To young!!!! Pony doesn't look like the happiest ether! Don't know what planet you live on pennyturner but I deff do not agree breaking them at two.. To do anything.
 
Temptation said:
To young!!!! Pony doesn't look like the happiest ether! Don't know what planet you live on pennyturner but I deff do not agree breaking them at two.. To do anything.
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Don't ever come to North America to ride then, or if you do, stay off the QH's at guest ranches because most of them will have been started at 2, it would be hyocritical to ride the result of something you disapprove of.

It's a free world, everyone is entitled to their opinions, whilst it isn't in the best interest of some to be started at 2, there is no law against it and it isn't going to change.

As for the pony not looking happy, there are 4 or 5 photos that's all, how can you tell whether he is a happy chappy or not just by a few photos which may be all they have to hand at the time? If his age wasn't known you'd just think this was a pretty laid back genuine sort of pony getting on with his job, for a 2 yo he looks in pretty good nick to me actually.
 
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Aha! I live in England so that makes no difference to me. I don't agree with breaking at two and I'm sure there are other things that you don't agree with to. I'm intital to have an opioin and couldn't really care less about yours.
 
Quarter horses are strong horses and usually started at 2 years old here too. We need to remember we race TBs as yearlings. I am not saying that is right or wrong, but it's a question of physical strength and mental maturity and what exactly is being asked of the horse. The same argument has been had on here of aged veteran horses and what is an acceptable level of work for them.

My WB was asked too much of too young - he is 6 years old now and still gangly, both physically and mentally immature, yet I owned a Welsh sec D that was so mature at 2 years old he looked much older and when I backed him at 3 he accepted all that was asked very well.
We have to remember that often very little is asked of small ponies and as someone said pulling a cart is not terribly hard work. It's a very emotive question and everyone will have a different opinion. You will likely find that this pony is doing a few very short bursts of work over a week.
 
Far too young for me.
You may say pulling a 'light load' is fine for them, but does a full harness, trap and two people seem like a light load? No, the pony also looks very gangly, even for a welsh.
Thoroughbreds mature a lot quicker than native breeds, which is why they are raced as 2yo's.
 
No, not OK for it to be pulling two people, being ridden etc.

TBs etc are raced young partly as the idea was to see which young stock was the fastest. It isn't really to do with what suits the horse at all.

As for not riding the product of early breaking... well, I wouldn't until I thought they were old enough. But I don't regard it as hypocritical to ride a horse that was beaten by a previous owner just because I don't agree with that and the same goes for this. I wouldn't do anything to encourage it but don't have a problem with working such a horse later in life. Although I might be more cautious about buying one due to long term health implications.
 
Saw an add' on "DoneDeal" last winter selling two yearlings broken to drive with photos of them tied to a horsebox fully clipped and with very obvious yearling tails, it even said what speed they could do on the road.:eek:
 
An awful lot of Tb are started even younger than than for racing - I personally wouldn't want to start a horse that young but then it completely depends on the horse, some are more mature than others for their age. If I were to buy this pony I would turn it away for at least a year
 
JessHakner said:
An awful lot of Tb are started even younger than than for racing -
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We would get the 'yearlings' in for starting at 18 -20 months old, some just weren't ready and would be turned away for a couple or months or so, or we just bought them along more slowly, depending entirely on how quickly the Trainers wanted them bought on.

There was always pressure to have them ready to go into training though. If we didn't do it then they'd simply be sent somewhere else that would do it. When they left our yard they would w/t/c on both reins in the school, trot a few poles, do road work in company and would know how to canter upsides, infront and in behind on the gallops, we also had them going through starting stalls and jumping off.
 
Enfys said:
We would get the 'yearlings' in for starting at 18 -20 months old, some just weren't ready and would be turned away for a couple or months or so, or we just bought them along more slowly, depending entirely on how quickly the Trainers wanted them bought on.

There was always pressure to have them ready to go into training though. If we didn't do it then they'd simply be sent somewhere else that would do it. When they left our yard they would w/t/c on both reins in the school, trot a few poles, do road work in company and would know how to canter upsides, infront and in behind on the gallops, we also had them going through starting stalls and jumping off.
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18months old? Surely they are not physically or mentally mature enough for that? I know that it's beneficial for their "career" but still...we bred a Sec A and at 18months old she was still such a baby! Saying that I had a 3year old who we rescued a few years ago and she was broken at 2 years and was a shivering mess, we took things slowly and she turned out to be one of the best horses I've ever showjumped!
 
Just because they are broken/raced as yearlings doesnt make it right. That pony does not look strong enough to be pulling those travellers around. Its not a case of monkey see monkey do, its a case of if you love and care about horses doing whats right for the animal not for peoples greed to make fast money.
 
Yes race horses are started at a young age but they carry well balanced light weight riders and are fed a carefully thought out diets they are trained as carefully as possible but even then the numbers that break down are too big! i was told and do believe that the earlier you "break" a horse in the shorter its career can be especially with certain slow maturing breeds ie ID's
 
i was told and do believe that the earlier you "break" a horse in the shorter its career can be
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^ I agree with this.


especially with certain slow maturing breeds ie ID's
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^ Why oh why do people still believe this? Dr Deb Bennett's article on horse skeletal maturing rates has been around for years. She clearly states that it makes no difference at all what breed or gender your horse/pony is, the skeleton matures at the same rate.

Mental maturity is different.

Racehorses are raced so young for one reason only and that is money, not because they are a super special fast maturing breed.
 
No I would never put a 2 year old in harness. Hungarian National Stud break Shagya colts at 4 years old but start fillies in harness as they say they are too young to be broken to saddle.

Our 3 yo shagya stallion will be lightly backed this autumn and turned away for winter - he is a big strapping 15.3hh with plenty of bone.

I also have a really substantial 2 yo CB filly. She looks like she would take a rider but we won't do anything for another year other than handling on headcollar.
 
Personally, with my own horses, I'd look to lightly back (with an under 6 stone rider) the tb aged 3, reback & start work aged 4. The wb the same. My arab is a late maturing line, she wont be backed until she is 5. Nothing to do with money, everything to do with what is right for the horse.

What I don't like about 2 yr olds racing, is that they are backed as yearlings or just before. Sorry, but I just don't think it is good for them & as a previous poster states it is driven by money. Trouble is that it has now become ingrained as 'tradition', & anyone who questions it is dimissed as not being a racing person, so therefore obviously doesn't understand anything to do with racing. I am a horse person however, & cannot see how taking yearling on gallops can do them anygood whatsoever & is surely a contibuting factor to teh extreme wastage in racing. So many are knackered physically they are never even considered for rehoming, just shot. I love racing, totally agree that there are many excellent trainers who take the utmost care of their horses. There are some aspects, such as breaking yearlings & racing 2 yr olds I do not agree with & would never back a horse in a 2 yr old race. It's a tiny protest, but it is none the less.
 
I wouldn't expect any of mine to be working at that age.
My two year sec D is very immature mentally although physically he is quite well developed.

I do think the remark that the pony looks 'broken spirit too' is a bit silly though to be honest.
The pony actually looks in good condition, and looks willing enough.

I hope this pony gets a knowledgable home and that the new owner will turn him out to mature and put all thoughts of working him aside for a couple of years.
 
Faracat said:
^ I agree with this.



^ Why oh why do people still believe this? Dr Deb Bennett's article on horse skeletal maturing rates has been around for years. She clearly states that it makes no difference at all what breed or gender your horse/pony is, the skeleton matures at the same rate.[/B
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Maturity isn't just about the skeleton..in the heavier types, such as ID, Clyde etc, of which I have lost of experience in, as well as lighter breeds...I can honestly say their muscleature does take longer to develop, or mature. My current Clyde x looked very juvenile in her 'ganglyness' and lack of muscle development at the age of 4 so wasn't backed until 5..she had matured sufficently then, and had the muscle tone, to be more balanced under saddle.

I think this is what people mean when they say some breeds mature later.

Coincidentally, TBs have been bred to mature younger than other horses..human interference over the last 200 years or so,since flat races have become shorter and more suited to extreme speed than stamina, which has called for a lighter, faster horse..has picked out the horses who have looked physically mature at a younger age to race and hence be bred from.And hence make more money, more quickly :(

I find it sad that the racehorses that catch the public imagination are always NH horses..as Flat racehorses are not around long enough to become a household name :( People go on about the Grand National being cruel etc..but to me, Flat racing is the one where horses are raced at a very young age, never mind in training,and the unacceptably high numbers of horses disposed of one way or another for a variety of reasons, usually at a very young age, must result in many many more deaths than all the Grand Nationals put together :( Grand National horses at least get to a reasonable age before they race in it.
 
Temptation said:
To young!!!! Pony doesn't look like the happiest ether! Don't know what planet you live on pennyturner but I deff do not agree breaking them at two.. To do anything.
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I never understand why some people are so quick to type personal insults on this board, it happens all too often! Please know what you are talking about before insulting somebody..yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, of course, It's just a shame so many opinions aren't based on knowledge or fact :(

Most 2 year old Gypsy horses are driving at 2. That's how you see 4 year old Traditional Cobs advertised as 'ride and drive'. And there are a lot of those!

If done sympathetically, with a very light exercise cart, by a real horseman, it can give the youngster valuable experience of life outside his field, and doesn't harm them at all. However, if done by inexperienced or uncaring people, which it is, it can be far too much for a youngster. As in everything, it's about a reasonable balance, always putting the individual horses welfare first. Personally I wouldn't do much with a 2 year old, just groundwork groundwork groundwork..but then I haven't got much driving experience or knowledge..PennyTurner obviously has, and her post was very informed and reasonable, I thought.
 
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