Top end horse prices.

[madeleine1]

Those are really not top level horses - they are good horses, but not top level. I'd say top level is something that gets to at least European Championships. As an example, Rolette was sold for £3.5 million, there were rumours of offers for Oki Doki of much more than that... totally different ballgame - well-off amateurs pay in the £100K region for horses every day...

i have to agree on the 65k one. altho i know its alot of money but i know horses that move for this all the time. ive always thought that a horse that costs more then a house is top end lol its a stupid measure but it works for me

 

[imr]

find that hard to believe too FB but maybe he meant the ones he himself has bought as he has ridden a lot of horses that belong to other people ?

at the very top end (I mean international top level) horses go for hundreds of thousands even millions but often we never know how much was paid for them. what you do see is the prices of promising youngsters or horses that are expected to do national level stuff but arent top top class - FB's 200k example is a good one - to get something like that you need to expect to part with at least £50k and thats if you are lucky lucky.

I think especially for the youngsters dressage can go a bit mad, especially as there is by no means a predictable success rate for how well those horses do. In part I think it is because its easier to assess a young horse's jumping talent, with dressage it may be a beautiful mover aged 3 but you wont know until a lot later how trainable it is and thats why you get £300k 3 year olds which dont become international top class horses. that said good paces pick you up a lot of marks in the lower levels so people buy horses which move extravagantly and do well with them, often find they cannot get them beyond the lower levels though as they cannot collect them. but I think this means there are lots of buyers in this market.

 

[BBH]

This is interesting and It wouldn't surprise me if it's true. We, as a country are simply too small. Most multi-millionaires/billionaires do not base themselves in the UK, they have residences here but don't live here and out of the few that do even less would be interested enough in SJ/DR to spend millions on it for our riders.

I guess top dr/SJ horses command higher prices because of higher prize money? Maybe the arena competition atmosphere/hospitality makes these disciplines more attractive to patrons?

The other thing to consider is not only do you need to find someone with the capital to afford top end horses you also have to find that same person with no interest in a return on that capital, who just invests through the love of the sport.

It is a very risky sport to put your money into with no guarantee of return, prize money is poor and there is no top end sales market to sell onto.

Most people IME who have made money ( I used to work in the city ) are interested in business and therefore invest to make money not throw it away.
It would be some persuasion to tell them to invest 3 - 4 million in a horse, spend circa £3,000 a month to keep it on the road.

Given the prize money over here it doesn't make financial sense so therefore you would never see it cos it'd be competing abroad all the time chasing the decent money. If thats the case you may as well place it with a european rider or American for the circuit in the winter.


No the only way I can see someone making such a commitment here is that they have developed a relationship with a rider and want to help them out.

 

[Halfstep]

This I find hard to believe... It is possible of course, just strange. It's hard to imagine a horse like Valegro costing less than £10k, even as an unbroken youngster?

I don't know how much Valegro cost, but he was bought out of a failed stallion grading as a tiny, wild thing, and he was a dreadful headshaker. So Carl took a bit of a punt on him and it paid off. He always had an amazing canter in him, but was not much to look at until he got a bit older and they were very lucky he mostly has outgrown his headshaking.

 

[kerilli]

An American contacted me about my Big Coloured Lad, asking if he was for sale or if I knew of others for sale just like him as they were willing to pay well for him/others like him. Despite him being a common horse of unknown breeding and a gelding to boot! I paid £2500 for him, they were talking ten times that!! (yes american dollars, but it still worked out at a wee bit more than £2500! )

ooh, do you still have his details please kirstyhen? i'll pm you, i happen to have a big coloured chap here right now for an owner, and he's to be sold...
worth a try!

 

[woodlandswow]

the thing is that i find eventers dont tend to be sold? .. i was talking to the rider of one of the big eventers.. (i dont know if they wants there name on here but you could probs guess!) and they said that there horse (before WEG!) was worth over £1million..
also, i never realised how important the breeding was - a 17hh 3 year old got bought for 75k! .. had barely been ridden!!

 

[Rambo]

I think there are many markets into which horses are sold and many different categories of buyer...particularly across disciplines.

Let's start with Amateur buyers. In the world of showjumping, i would argue that the demographic would be skewed towards younger, perhaps lower social status (but not necessarily...and i am one myself before i get shot down) who by that very description would tend to be less affluent. Obviously there are exceptions and there is a bit of 'new money' around the SJ'ing scene as well so certain amateurs will pay good money...but generally sub £10k per horse. The dressage market is subtely different though...seemingly more middle aged women, possibly with wealthy other halves and so prices reflect this extra affluence. These people buy from their trainers and so, spotting a profit to be had, the trainers take a nice cut in commission too. Think £12 - £15k as the start price going up to many tens of thousands +. Finally we have the amateur eventers who seem to be dominated by students and university undergraduates. These people have little money of their own but probably come from middle to upper class families and have parents who have bought them nice young horses to bring on. These horses will be sold when child goes to uni...price according to level achieved and perceived safety factor for even wealthier parents to lavish on their offspring. Prices range from £5k upwards.


Then we have the pro's. This is a business and so commercial factors come into play a little more. Showjumping carries the best prizemoney...so top horses will automatically cost the most (but see dressage caveat later). Championship SJ'ers will change hands for multi-million pound sums. Very few sj'ers win a million...but there are a few. Generally though, very good international grade A's would sell for anything between £200k and a million. Young horses with no record but showing great potential will sell for figures of £100k to £200k or more...didn't John Hales pay a small fortune for a just weaned full brother to Arko ? Eventers at the top level don't seem to change hands as frequently as SJ'ers and dressage horses...perhaps safety plays a part in this but also i think there are more loyal owners in eventing...people who love their horses and have them home over winter because they want to do more than just watch them compete. That said, older horses will be sold on as schoolmasters and still command good money...upto £100k. Maybe more. Some top horses will sell pre-championships too to emerging nations...but this happens in all disciplines.
Finally, dressage. Prices at the top end are very similar to top end SJ'ers...difference being that the prizemoney isn't there to backup the prices...so why do they command such high prices ? Well, i think dressage is the 'art' of the equine world...people will spend fortunes on things they perceive as beautiful...dressage horses fit that bill.

 

[OneInAMillion]

I know an eventer who had a horse bought with massive 4* prospect already jumping and doing well but not at any great level for £250K, within 10days it broke down. It is a problem with paying so much!

 

[abbilibby]

An eventer i worked for, for a while was selling horses for way over the £300k mark.

At the top level of each dicipline its normal to be spending £400k plus on horses.

Also i dont agree with what somebody said about eventers been the ones that need the partnership whereas dressage/showjumping horses/riders dont or however it was worded.

Yes eventers need one hell of a partnership, i wouldnt want to be going across country on something id only just sat on, not at the heights/technicality some of the courses anyway.

But showjumping, ive seen it go wrong soooo many times for riders that have bought well produced horses, the horse doesnt get any reassurance because the riders not quite sure so the horse says no, and im not talking amateur riders.

 

[OneInAMillion]

Also i dont agree with what somebody said about eventers been the ones that need the partnership whereas dressage/showjumping horses/riders dont or however it was worded.

Yes eventers need one hell of a partnership, i wouldnt want to be going across country on something id only just sat on, not at the heights/technicality some of the courses anyway.

But showjumping, ive seen it go wrong soooo many times for riders that have bought well produced horses, the horse doesnt get any reassurance because the riders not quite sure so the horse says no, and im not talking amateur riders.

Well said!

 

[HuggyBear]

Are most of these horses sourced through word of mouth- the top end ones I mean (house price and upwards)- or do a lot buy direct from studs, a mixture of both perhaps? Pluck promising ones from amateur owners they happen to see competing?

ETA: How have prices reflected the ecomonic downturn? I know there was a feature in HH about prices varying and it mentions that people aren't paying as much but that is very much the lower end of the prices. What about at the top end?

 

[Santa_Claus]

i didn't mean that SJers/dressage riders don't have relationships with their horses, the likes of Laura B and Alf prove what a great relationship can do what I meant though is that in the most part a decent rider can get on most decent horses and get a respectable result. You get lots of catch rides all the way up through the levels because of it. Yes there are still clashes where a rider will get it wrong though.

For example I'm not even that good a rider but I would be happy to get on a horse which I knew was capable and jump a foxhunter or do a PSG test with only the warm up for practice. Yes the results wouldn't be fabulous but I would be confident that if the horse responded to my standard aids as I would expect in the warm up and I knew it was within its capabilities that we could do so safely. Eventing however I wouldn't dare think about taking a horse XC no matter what standard until I had chance to learn exactly how it would react to certain situations and circumstances and I would expect most riders to be the same. There is a very limited number of riders who can take catch rides eventing at the higher levels and I mean on the day never sat on it before catch rides and thats because of the need for a more indepth relationship and why top eventers rarely change hands and when they do other than with exceptional riders it often takes a while till they are out competing to the same/similar standard. and as seen with Internet often they disappear into oblivion!

 

[TarrSteps]

Are most of these horses sourced through word of mouth- the top end ones I mean (house price and upwards)- or do a lot buy direct from studs, a mixture of both perhaps? Pluck promising ones from amateur owners they happen to see competing?

Top end horses usually come from established seller/producers (often the horse's regular rider or trainer) and often through an agent as well. Sometimes it's a case of making an offer that can't be refused, to buy something really specific, sometimes it's matchmaking. A lot of the really crazy money gets spent at auctions but these are BIG business in Europe so the horses are known quantities before the bidding starts and people usually have some idea what the top lots are going to be. That said, part of what drives auctions in competition and people with deep pockets can get carried away.

(It seems to be pretty much understood, though, that deals are not always what they appear to be on the surface. )

Obviously some studs do sell their young horses for good money, but I doubt they often get insane money, with the exception of those that produce horses to a high level and/or are very well known. I think it's quite hard for relative unknowns to command those sorts of prices for their horses, no matter how well bred, although it's probably slightly easier if they're in the European production system.

As far as buying horses relatively cheaply from their unaware amateur owners, I don't know how often it happens here but it's standard practice in North America. I know pros who judge and give clinics in out of the way areas in part because they might find an unpolished gem! Again, I'm not as familiar with the system here but often in North America the horses "make their way up" the levels - a relatively "small" pro buys the horse from the owner, polishes it up, shows it locally, sells it to a client of a higher end trainer, who knows a bit more about how to get the horse 'just so' and takes it to bigger, further away shows, where it might change hands again . . . People tend to gripe about how so and so made so much more money selling a horse than the original seller got but then that begs the question why didn't they get the money for it?

So often, it's a case of the right person seeing the horse at the right time.

International horses obviously are a different case. If you want, say, a horse to take your kid to Pony Europeans, there's only going to be a tiny pool to chose from. The trick is to find one you can afford!

 

[FrodoBeutlin]

Top end horses usually come from established seller/producers (often the horse's regular rider or trainer) and often through an agent as well. Sometimes it's a case of making an offer that can't be refused, to buy something really specific, sometimes it's matchmaking. A lot of the really crazy money gets spent at auctions but these are BIG business in Europe so the horses are known quantities before the bidding starts and people usually have some idea what the top lots are going to be. That said, part of what drives auctions in competition and people with deep pockets can get carried away.

(It seems to be pretty much understood, though, that deals are not always what they appear to be on the surface. )

True (on both accounts), there are "top-end" agents who only deal in top-end horses (and make A LOT of money out of it for what seems to be very little work from the outside ).

I don't think prices at the top end have gone down at all. I think the 'crisis' in the market only applies to the lower end of the market.