Topline help or ideas please

tankgirl1

tankgirl1

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So I took this pic today after he'd been clipped and hacked out.

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Made me realise that we really need to work on the muscles round his withers - trapezium? Any help, ideas and CC welcomed :D
 
how old is he, and my first thought would be saddle, especially if once his head is up hes caving in around the withers, and dipping along the spine
 
PS - got lessons booked with a good local instructor - will be a week or two tho. We do lots of hilly hacking, mainly in walk, sometimes trot for a minute or two...

We also do carrot stretches daily...
 
He's been more or less out of work for the last 6 years, we've brought him back in by lots of walking hacking, 3 months in more trotting and the odd canter. He had a spooky gallop with me today lol!

Fed chaff, balancer, garlic, glucosamine and a few carrots.
 
Just realised I contradicted myself! Mainly walk with a bit of trot at first, Now mainly walk with a bit of trot and the odd canter, Trying to increase the trotting esp when he is up for it and its uphill!

He's hacked out perhaps 4-5 times a week, I sometimes take him out in hand too, tho co owner always rides. We tried a schooling session last week but was far too muddy!
 
tankgirl1 said:
He's 16yo, saddle bespoke fitted albeit a few years ago
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tankgirl1 said:
He's been more or less out of work for the last 6 years, we've brought him back in by lots of walking hacking, 3 months in more trotting and the odd canter. He had a spooky gallop with me today lol!

Fed chaff, balancer, garlic, glucosamine and a few carrots.
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Fitted exactly how many years ago if he's been pretty much redundant the last six years... A horse can change dramatically within the year and should be checked for saddle fit twice a year... If I were you, I'd get a good equine massage to loosen up all the muscles... So you have a clear playing field so to speak, making sure there are no tight hot spots, I would also get a good saddle fitter to come and check now, you will need some adjustments to enable that muscle to develop, I would also consider regular long and low lunge work without a saddle to enable the shoulders to move freely and start to build up, once saddle and massage are done and the all clear for the saddle fit, I would then be starting with lots of walking out... And take it from there

Edited to say a very good question by ginger bear, high head carriage can cause this, and this can be caused by the horse or by tack that it is 'fighting' against, such as martingale s... Some horses hate these and whack their heads up in the air, causing all sorts of troubles ;) lots of low head carriage is needed
 
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Ginger Bear said:
Will he relax & lower his head when being ridden or is his head always held high?
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I'm a happy hacker, so have always been more concerned about getting him going forward -and therefore getting his back end working - the other stuff can come later IMO, Co owner likes to try and get him on the bit.... so its difficult as he has 2 riders....
 
Agreed saddle needs checking, I wasn't necessarily saying 'on the bit' right now as its a process to get them on the bit, but even a relaxed low head on a long rein will help lift his back & build muscle. We have a new pony in the family that we've had 3 months, came fat & unworked with a dipped back, all we've done is got him to lower his head & lunged in a loose Pessoa, nothing to hold him on the bit and we have already had to get him a new different shaped saddle as his back has lifted so quickly.
 
Review your saddle fit - but also what you're feeding. The horse doesn't look particularly well covered, so will be difficult/impossible to put muscle on whilst the horse is potentially underweight.
 
Agree with the others re saddle. He has the classic signs of muscle wastage (wither pockets) due to a too narrow saddle. This is not the same as lack of top line, though I agree he needs more top line too. The saddle needs to be adjusted so that it leaves space for the muscle to fill out.

Unfortunately, I have twice seen master saddlers fitting a saddle so that it fits the horse and sits into the wither pockets, rather than fitting a tree appropriate to what the horse SHOULD be and adjusting flocking over a number of months as the horse fills out. I had an 18 year old horse here whose saddle was way too narrow who looked just like your horse. We got a different saddler out to him. As soon as he walked in the stable he said 'Oh, a narrow horse'. I said, no, he's actually medium wide, but the tight saddle has caused muscle wastage. Took a lot of convincing the saddler to fit a medium wide tree with some extra flocking. But I had to call him out 3 months later as the saddle was so tight. He took another template of his back and the horse had filled out by nearly two inches each side. He had never seen such dramatic results. He readjusted the flocking, and then by 6 months, it was like a standard medium wide saddle and the horse had lost his wither pockets.
 
I agree with others - saddle fit needs checking - generally speaking it is a good idea to get this done at least once a year anyway, just to check for any alteration in fit.

As for diet, I'm not sure what 'chaff' he is on but you might find he benefits from one of the dengie ones - hi-fi mollasses free would be my choice as it is coated in oil so will help in terms of calories. I tend to find alfa-a too rich. Continue with the balancer if you feel it is giving him all he needs but to this I would add a mug of micronised linseed, and I'd also be tempted to add some speed-beet. Also make sure he has access to a decent amount of good quality hay - half a bale in any 24 hours would be about right.

In terms of his work, while I understand your concern for getting him going forward, he will not use himself and therefore develop the right sort of muscles if he isn't being asked to work into a contact.... It can be a bit of a chicken and egg situation but I would get him working in a rounder shape and then encorage him forward... (this is what I have been doing with my youngster on my instructors instruction and it is working) perhaps some work on the lunge or in hand with side reins attached low on a roller would also be good as he wouldn't have the weight of a rider on his back and you could encourage him forward from the ground...
 
This is definitely a saddle issue.

Working round with a lower head will help to build the muscle back up, but not working on the bit will not cause a horses back to look like this.

I know plenty of horses that never work on the bit and their backs looks muscled and healthy.

I wouldn't be riding until saddler has seen him. Lots of long and low work on the lunge until then.
 
Hi, my mare lost topline and muscle in exactly the same way as yours this year, and I have put it solely down to having a saddle with too flat a tree for her (tg pony club and tg cob were the ones I had).

I rode her bareback all summer, and fed her micronised linseed, spoke to the feed nutritionists who recommended feedi g more protein so she was actually on baileys performance balancer with loads of speedi beet, the linseed, magnesium, (plus devils claw and vet vits for her joints). I have started to see muscle slightly building up either Side of her withers, which is great seeing as she is coming up 23 in feb.

Saddle wise, I have to use a thicker numnah (thick nuumed with wool under the panels seems to be what she prefers) and a prolite wither pad. I hate just using a wither pad as opposed to a full prolite or half pad, but we have experimented with everything and somehow that is what she prefers. Obviously your saddle would need to be wide enough to take all the paraphanalia underneath, so it may need to be looked at, although if it is a decent make it could possibly be widened on a saddler's press?

Sorry for the essay, its just I saw your horses withers and they looked just like my mare's at the start of the year.
 
Should also add that finding a replacement saddle is not easy, as you don't know what you are going to end up with. I have literally been through 10-12 saddles with her this year and still rode bareback!
 
Orchardbeck said:
I rode her bareback all summer, and fed her micronised linseed, spoke to the feed nutritionists who recommended feedi g more protein so she was actually on baileys performance balancer with loads of speedi beet, the linseed, magnesium, (plus devils claw and vet vits for her joints). I have started to see muscle slightly building up either Side of her withers, which is great seeing as she is coming up 23 in feb.
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Do you think riding bareback has helped to build up muscle, even though there is almost no muscle there to carry a rider?
 
He's lovely :)

Shy changes shape pretty often, so I have an adjustable saddle (gullet thing), but i mostly ride in my treeless barefoot - this has really helped to free up his back and shoulders, and he's looking great. Just a thought.
 
Cobs galore - I honestly don't know, but what I do know is that she didn't have the saddle digging in her withers. I have to say that I was wary, and only rode for 20 mins at a time, and if we were hacking I sometimes surcingled a prolite pad on which made things more comfortable for both of us. If she wasn't comfy, she would plant and nap, so I knew immediately and we'd stop.

It's hard work, especially when they are older and you can't lunge them for fear of stressing joints.
 
Orchardbeck said:
Cobs galore - I honestly don't know, but what I do know is that she didn't have the saddle digging in her withers. I have to say that I was wary, and only rode for 20 mins at a time, and if we were hacking I sometimes surcingled a prolite pad on which made things more comfortable for both of us. If she wasn't comfy, she would plant and nap, so I knew immediately and we'd stop.

It's hard work, especially when they are older and you can't lunge them for fear of stressing joints.
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Well done for sticking with it and listening to her :)

Do you have any before and after pictures to show the OP?? (and us!)
 
Wagtail said:
Awful, isn't it? What they put up with and don't complain. :(

Many years ago, I used to think that was a normal shape for a horse. At the yard where I worked, we all had a favourite saddle that we would use for every horse we rode. :o
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I know, I find it sad when I see horses with muscles that have taken on the shape of the saddle panels! :(

Many saddles are fitted too narrowly. I went to an interesting talk at Holistic Horse where back specialists and saddle fitters from balance were giving a demo and how you can actually change the shape and build muscle UNDER SADDLE using correctly fitted pads.

It changed my boys life and this belief would never have stuck but I saw it with my own boy. He was fitted in a medium by a master saddler but he was actually an x-wide!

Sorry to keep using this website but I have found it contains really good examples.

http://www.laviniamitchell.com/html/poor_saddling_examples.html
 
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