Totally at a loss what to do next any thoughts?

[travellingpony]

I brought my Cob mare December 2016. She went lame slowly well didn't feel right and since April 2017 has been lame. Its the RH. Shes 7 now according to the passport

She took a kick to the RH in the May and so had treatment for that. The insurance company have now decided that they aren't paying anymore as they feel it was an issue prior to my buying her that caused it despite her being sound. We have argued months and NFU will not carry on.

Two vets have seen her both suspected stifle cysts. I have had her whole back xrayed and stifles no one can find a thing. She has had the right hind x rayed again nothing. We have turned away now 18 months still lame. I have been having physio all this time and they think she makes progress i'm not convinced.

She has grown from 14.2-16 hands in this time but has stopped now. I have tried walking in hand spent months and a fortune trying to sort it out.

I even paid to test of PSSM which cost a bomb and its all negative.

She only looks 2/10 lame maximum but wont tolerate a rider at all. Shes not nasty but its like the back end collapses.

The vet says the only thing to do is to go to Edinburgh for a 2k scan. This obviously is out of my pocket and includes no treatment.

Shes a nice mare but no world beater. WWYD? One vet suggested PTS which seems such a shame but I don't think I can justify another 2k. Keeping her isn't cheap either I just am at a total loss. Obviously i'm not going to breed from her not knowing what is wrong. The vet suggested another 12 months turned away if I don't want to pay or put her down but she never looks any better to me i'm stumped.

 

[JillA]

I don't know your circumstances but I would turn her away for a year - can you find some grass/retirement type livery for that? At 7 she has only just stopped growing and maturing - with any luck it's something that might settle down now. Then, if there is no improvement, and proper diagnosis so no treatment, you would have to bear in mind she is permanently in pain and do the right thing by her.
As regards the insurers, challenge them on that. If your vets don't know what the diagnosis is, how can they possibly say it was a pre existing condition. There is an ombudsman you can take it to if you get no joy with the company.

 

[travellingpony]

Shes at home so its not a huge issue to keep her in summer but she will have to come in through winter as she won't want to be out alone. It settles down after physio and then within about 6 weeks its back worse again. She won't help herself as she will run up and down then its back to square one.
I have challenged them all the way the first vet made a mistake and basically shot me through the foot when I mentioned within the 14 days to him in a chat that she had a sore back three months before she went lame. Its not getting me anywhere at all. I'm about 1k in of my own money not to mention the purchase price of the horse.
Bute doesn't improve her at all we have done trials a few times and all sorts of supplements everyone is stumped.

 

[HashRouge]

I would turn her away over summer, and review in September/ October. If no better I would be thinking about PTS. I know it's hard, but you have tried so much and sometimes we have to accept things just aren't fixable.

 

[travellingpony]

I would turn her away over summer, and review in September/ October. If no better I would be thinking about PTS. I know it's hard, but you have tried so much and sometimes we have to accept things just aren't fixable.

Everyone keeps saying this to me its hard becasue she was such a dream for me it just went so wrong its sad. I can't understand why even huge doses of bute won't help when shes not really that lame its bizarre.

 

[Leo Walker]

Get Rob Jackson or Tom Beech out. Both are vets and osteos. Both have fixed my horse when vets were stumped or had basically written him off. They might not be able to fix her, but you have nothing to lose by trying. Mine is back in full work now, eventing fit and competing in driving trials, but 9 months ago we were looking at retire or PTS with him.

 

[travellingpony]

Get Rob Jackson or Tom Beech out. Both are vets and osteos. Both have fixed my horse when vets were stumped or had basically written him off. They might not be able to fix her, but you have nothing to lose by trying. Mine is back in full work now, eventing fit and competing in driving trials, but 9 months ago we were looking at retire or PTS with him.

I have contacted Rob many thanks.

 

[LaurenBay]

I would turn her away over summer, and review in September/ October. If no better I would be thinking about PTS. I know it's hard, but you have tried so much and sometimes we have to accept things just aren't fixable.

This, sorry OP. It is sad when they are so young.

 

[SpringArising]

I'd turn away for 3-6 months and if no improvement I'd PTS.

 

[travellingpony]

She’s out now and im doing nothing with her at all. We will see what September looks like. She’s just so stunning I bet I’ve ridden her about 30 times since I got her. The whole thing is devastating

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

There was a horse on the yard who was 2/10 lame in front in trot his while life. Right from a youngster. He had every scan, x-ray and poking and prodding done known to mane and nothing could be found. He was just lame. It didn't stop him going on to be a very good racehorse winning a lot of chases. He was put down at 17yo Due to a completely unrelated injury But was in consistent work until then.

If you are willing to turn away until winter then do so. But some horses - yes I know very few - are just lame for no reason. And if bute doesn't make her any better then it isn't pain related. Might just be a bone or tendon a wee touch shorter than the one on the other side. No horse is symmetrical.

 

[rachk89]

If its stifles it could be something similar to my boy. He's been diagnosed with chondromalacia which can't usually be diagnosed via xrays or ultrasounds. He had both and they only knew the problem once they did surgery and saw the issue. But that's still costing around 1500, more with livery costs at the vets but I have to pay those as insurance won't. His problem can be caused by kicks, his the vet thinks was caused just by genetics. Although he has been kicked in the stifle area too so could be both.

If my insurance wasn't going to pay though, I was going to put him down. I couldn't afford surgery and without a diagnosis there's no treatment. With no treatment he'd have been in pain for the rest of his life. I am really sorry you're in this position. Is a loan optional for you or selling something? I'm selling my trailer to help pay for this and pay off some debts.

 

[DD]

I'd turn away for at least 12 months.

 

[travellingpony]

If its stifles it could be something similar to my boy. He's been diagnosed with chondromalacia which can't usually be diagnosed via xrays or ultrasounds. He had both and they only knew the problem once they did surgery and saw the issue. But that's still costing around 1500, more with livery costs at the vets but I have to pay those as insurance won't. His problem can be caused by kicks, his the vet thinks was caused just by genetics. Although he has been kicked in the stifle area too so could be both.

If my insurance wasn't going to pay though, I was going to put him down. I couldn't afford surgery and without a diagnosis there's no treatment. With no treatment he'd have been in pain for the rest of his life. I am really sorry you're in this position. Is a loan optional for you or selling something? I'm selling my trailer to help pay for this and pay off some debts.

The issue is it might not get me anywhere and already i'm 4.5k in plus what its cost to keep her. The scan is 2k that is no treatment or guarantee it will find anything. She has an odd gait she rolls the stifle in a straight line its not so bad. The fact you can't sit on her though must mean it hurts with weight on board. The muscle is sore on the opposite fore shoulder each time the physio comes. I don't know what to do. Shes 16 months turned away now and we are right where it started its so sad and frustrating. Each time we try and work with her spend hours on exercises and all sorts nothing has ever changed. Shes had box rest and been living out nothing helps. Four bute a day did nothing either its insanity. I will try the Osteo if he will come the vet thinks its worth a try and see what they think or if someone can narrow it down. My vet thinks maybe its not only one thing the other vet wants to work her up again for another £1000 I just don't know. She gets very aggressive with the vet sadly which doesn't help and would be hugely distressed at the vet so I have to consider that too.

 

[travellingpony]

If I was guaranteed a diagnosis that would be different but i'm not. I know many with bone scans who got nothing from it.

 

[rachk89]

Yeah understand what you mean. It doesn't sound like she'd react well at the vets either, my horse seems to have become a bit of a drug addict and loves whatever they give him so he's fine with it all. But horses that don't like it do find it very stressful, and she would be put under general anaesthetic too which the recovery period of that is the most dangerous. It's when the horse can become scared and damage itself further. Again I'm lucky that my horse came round fine and did nothing to himself, he probably just wanted another sedation. But your horse would likely react badly in that situation.

 

[Nari]

A bit off the point, but are you sure she isn't younger than you think? To have gone from 14.2hh in December 16 to 16hh now seems unusual for a horse that is supposed to be 7 now & so would have been 5 1/2 or rising 6 then. I wonder if some of what you're seeing is simple immaturity & needing time to adjust to growth spurts?

 

[travellingpony]

A bit off the point, but are you sure she isn't younger than you think? To have gone from 14.2hh in December 16 to 16hh now seems unusual for a horse that is supposed to be 7 now & so would have been 5 1/2 or rising 6 then. I wonder if some of what you're seeing is simple immaturity & needing time to adjust to growth spurts?

That was the original thought process but the vet is sure that she is the right age from her teeth. She is no longer bum high for the first time ever. She had huge pasterns behind at one point. I hoped that was it but now shes all level shes still as lame. I am in no hurry I just periodically get frustrated with it and today is one of those days. Its just interesting to see what others think

 

[Nudibranch]

Sacroiliac issues are hard to diagnose, even by bone scan, and don't respond well to bute. I only mention it because I have a 7yo who I have retired with a view to pts. He's had blocks, x rays etc to no avail and I'm ruling out a scan because we think he probably has neck and hock issues as well as a minimum. He also has congenitally thin soles and bruises/abscesses a lot so every time we go to do more diagnostics he ends up out of work from that, so we go back to square one. It's hard - half of me says enough, half says I should throw good money after bad because I feel guilty about shooting a big, handsome, smart horse. So I know how you feel. Anyway not sure what all your symptoms are but SI can be tricky....?

 

[travellingpony]

It started off she didn’t feel quite right then one day she just exploded. Hamstrings are tight and trapezium. She looks almost sound sometimes but if you get on she won’t move and turns her back legs out. If she runs around a lot it makes it worse. She’s the same big gorgeous blue show cob stunning to put her down seems ridiculous but she’s a quirky baggage to deal with. There has never been any swelling or heat just solid hamstrings and this odd lameness and tense gluteal muscles. She can look like she’s tied up and used to get anxious about being ridden but she was only backed 6 months when I got her. She did put her back up for a down but that was ill fitting tack she doesn’t do that now. She just can’t take your weight. We have tired pushing her forwards because someone suggested it was behavioral but it’s defintiely not.

The physio seems to ease her off but then it’s the same again within a few weeks. We have tried walking in hand and stretches nothing that we do helps one bit it’s always the same no better or worse unless she runs about then she’s on three legs. She’s in a settled herd so this issue has stopped but if there’s anything exciting and she runs she looks bad straight after then seems to right itself

 

[Equi]

Is she actually lame or a mechanical lameness? Im sort of in two minds - It could be just "how she is" in which case she may be happy being a companion etc..but if thats not something you want to do or can't do for whatever reason then i would not feel too bad about pts. You've done a hell of a lot already for her, with no outcome.

Alternatively, she would be a horse that needs to be worked up, without a rider obviously until shes built up. My horse has a very old injury the vet found on xray when he would not take a right canter lead/was a bit short, bute had no effect. He said he is not in pain doing just normal low level riding that i do, but just let him choose what lead he takes and avoid any circles on the right which i do, at the time he had not been worked correctly in a long time and was still undermuscled. With my lovely instructor we have built him up so much from the ground with poles and the like that he is 90% better than before and the more "correct" work he gets, the better he does. Hes never going to ride a dressage test over an intro, but he moves so much more freely and even picks up right canter.

 

[travellingpony]

Is she actually lame or a mechanical lameness? Im sort of in two minds - It could be just "how she is" in which case she may be happy being a companion etc..but if thats not something you want to do or can't do for whatever reason then i would not feel too bad about pts. You've done a hell of a lot already for her, with no outcome.

Alternatively, she would be a horse that needs to be worked up, without a rider obviously until shes built up. My horse has a very old injury the vet found on xray when he would not take a right canter lead/was a bit short, bute had no effect. He said he is not in pain doing just normal low level riding that i do, but just let him choose what lead he takes and avoid any circles on the right which i do, at the time he had not been worked correctly in a long time and was still undermuscled. With my lovely instructor we have built him up so much from the ground with poles and the like that he is 90% better than before and the more "correct" work he gets, the better he does. Hes never going to ride a dressage test over an intro, but he moves so much more freely and even picks up right canter.

This was the idea of walking in hand twice I’ve done several weeks work on the ground walking on lines but she’s never any better at the end. It’s just so frustrating as if someone gave me something that would work I would do it. We have no school so a fresh green tank is quite exciting to deal with. I could never pass her on and wouldn’t so I guess I just have to make a decision either way.

 

[travellingpony]

I think she’s lame as it worsens and gets better there must be some pain element surly? It wouldn’t exacerbate I would imagine under hard work when it’s bad she’s really stressed but then large amounts of Bute don’t make her sound. She looks miserable when she’s getting due a physio which is aboht 5 weekly but I don’t feel the benefit lasts more than that time. The physio thinks it’s a visible improvement perhaps the movement is more loose but to me she she’s not sound in the sense you could show her or I would take her anywhere if that makes sense?

 

[Equi]

Oh i see not an easy one at all. Are you able to keep her as just a companion or is she the only riding horse you can have?

 

[travellingpony]

I brought another one and she’s kind of nanny to my foal. I can keep her it’s just she’s 16h square so she’s a very big expensive pet come winter. Everyone has told me to shoot her even the vet and she’s still here knowing me she always will be I think it’s the question of whether she comes right that drives me mad. There is about a grand of made to measure saddle and things I am hanging in too it’s a weird feeling I want some sort of closure bonkers as that sounds!

 

[Equi]

Its not at all bonkers! Had my vet not found the very obvious issue in my gelding, i would be in your shoes. I knew he was not "right" but he was not wrong enough to be wrong either and he would of never came good no matter what, rest for him would have been the absolute worst thing ever but would have been what vet advised if he found no issue. Have you ever thought about Thermography? I had it done on my boy just for fun and it flagged up the sore shoulders i knew he had cause saddle had got a bit snug (saddle was actually already away getting widened) but he showed no pain to the regular physio in that area i just know my horse very well and basic knowledge of how to fit a saddle lol

 

[travellingpony]

I could try it my vet mentioned it. A lot of the problem is her behavior she’s so agressive to the vet he can’t do things very easily. I might need a brave thermographer. I just feel like a decision of some sort needs to be made. I have kids and limited time and it’s very time consuming and expensive doing loads of treatments and walking and things to get nowhere. If she was just a pet then fine but it’s the constant what ifs that send you mad.

Did you use a specific company? I always wonder when you see them on Facebook how good the individual might be!

 

[Equi]

I could try it my vet mentioned it. A lot of the problem is her behavior she’s so agressive to the vet he can’t do things very easily. I might need a brave thermographer. I just feel like a decision of some sort needs to be made. I have kids and limited time and it’s very time consuming and expensive doing loads of treatments and walking and things to get nowhere. If she was just a pet then fine but it’s the constant what ifs that send you mad.

Did you use a specific company? I always wonder when you see them on Facebook how good the individual might be!

Mine is an individual but fully certified, she trained in UK i believe so if you want to send me you location i can ask her if there is anyone she knows there? They just take pictures so if you are able to just get your horse to stand with noone fussing about them it will be okay, they don't at any point touch your horse and dont want you to touch them either, they will move around to suit what way your horse moves etc. the only thing is they need to be in a stable with no food/water for 1hr before scanning, or it will effect the pictures which may not suit you

 

[SusieT]

'
I have challenged them all the way the first vet made a mistake and basically shot me through the foot when I mentioned within the 14 days to him in a chat that she had a sore back three months before she went lame. Its not getting me anywhere at all.'
So the horse had a pre existing sore back -I'm guessin gyou didn't declare this hence why insurance have declined to pay - quite rightly. Did you chat to vet in the 14 days period because something was wrong?

I'd turn away for 12 months and then see if she was any better. if not I'd retire or pts depending on my situation.

 

[travellingpony]

No she had an ill fitting saddle I used to work for an insurer. The new saddle was made from scratch she had physio and then went on to be fine a couple of months. I have sent in letters from my instructor and all sorts but they won’t budge. I understand obviously that they wouldn’t want to pay out for pre existing conditions but I still don’t believe there was one.