Totally fed up, horse still lame.

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rforsyth1984

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Hello all

Just posting to vent really, not after advice as such as I will be ringing vet again in the morning.

Horse came in lame last Thursday, typically lammy (heels back, pulses up etc). Vet put on box rest and bute, etc.

A week later, bute down to 1 a day but really lame still. Phoned vet, they said up the bute to 2 a day and phone back Monday. He is on 2 a day now but can hardly walk from 1 side of the stable to the other.

He has had lammy before and comes sound after a couple of days on bute. I'm guessing there must be something else, maybe an abcess? Breaking my heart to see him so lame, though he seems in good spirits in himself.

Just hoping the vet can come out tomorrow... they are quite a distance from us and the snow is bad here :(
 
Was on soaked hay and a tiny bit of haylage. Had to give haylage the last 2 days as no water and thick snow have made soaking impossible (cant have dry hay due to dust allergy).

Handful of alfa a and alfa beet to get bute down him twice a day (both feeds reccomended by laminitis clinic).

Obviously bute wont cure lamintis, but it usually takes away the pain (combined with other treatment such as box rest, low sugar diet etc).

Last time he had lammy, vet said to keep him on haylage, he was sound within a few days. This time, it wasn't as bad (didnt react to hoof testers when vet came) but lameness has dragged on and got worse :(

So frustrating and I feel so helpless.
 
Your poor lad, must be hard to see him like that.

Is it worth giving your farrier a call to see if he can come out? If it's an abscess he could be able to offer some relief by draining it...
 
Sorry if my point about bute was a bit abrupt.

I've just had a pony get acute laminitis when I switched her onto haylage even though doing it over a week. I'm soaking her hay in the house as I cannot risk giving her anything else. I have mine at home though so she's nearby. Would that be possible and take drained, rinsed hay to him? This weather makes things difficult I know. :(

Hopefully the vet will be able to help with pain relief tomorrow.

Ps, obviously haylage can vary like hay can is all I can think of. I don't know about alpha beet but I do know alfalfa a contains sugars and preservatives. I think the simplest diet is best for my pony.
I would contact Jackie Taylor, she is very knowledgeable. I don't know if higher protein and nutrient level in haylage can be too rich for some horses.
 
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Have to say I wouldn't feed alfalfa to a laminitic - if you just need something to add his bute to them Fast Fibre or Speedibeet are much better. I personally wouldn't trust anything the Laminitis Clinic said because of the people involved.
 
I've been soaking hay in smaller haynets than usual, in a small tubtrug with hot water at home. Not ideal, but I wouldn't want to take the risk of not soaking.
Alternatively can you thaw the pipe/tap? I've used a gelpack that you can heat in boiling water/microwave (designed for sports injuries). It stays warm for at least an hour. Wrap around tap and pipe, wrap a towel around and wait -bingo running water!
Haylage is not really advised as it can cause more digestive upset and thus worsen laminitis. However if I had to feed haylage I would buy the Marksway Horsehage either Timothy/High Fibre that is recommended for laminitics.
Unless you can ensure that the sugars/starch in your hay are below 10%, then I wouldn't feed without soaking as it could prolong/worsen the lami. Hope he's better soon.
 
Could have written this post myself!

My Welsh cob came out of the stable lame last Thursday. Think it was after the really cold night...

Same as you - tried dropping to 1 bute, but still really lame. He's never had laminitis before, but have had other laminitics & they have all improved on bute more quickly - it just doesn't seem like 'ordinary' laminitis to me.

Also thinking of having the vet out again tomorrow. I am wondering if it has been brought on by cold/lack of circulation/concussion combination, which is why it is taking longer to improve than a metabolic episode?
 
MrsArt, I feel for you!

I was fairly convinced he had lammy, he has had it in the past and it looked like a classic case, and I think he did have/has got lammy, but there is something else I'm pretty sure. Good thinking about the farrier, he is due out next week if all else fails.

I hear what people are saying about the haylage, but he has been on haylage for the last 6 years with no previous problems, recovered really quickly from last bout of lammy whilst on nothing but haylage (and small feeds for bute). I appreciate that his feed needs adjusting, I am going to change to happy hoof and alfa beet eventually, but don't feel that making major changes to his diet overnight is appropriate at any time, but especially when he is already ill.

Fingers crossed the vet will come today! Thanks everyone for their replies, most kind of you all x
 
Not fun is it - especially at this time of the year.

I'm sorry, you may not want to hear this, but my two lami lads don't do well on haylage and tend to get footy with it.

One of my lamis also has COPD - with him I steam the hay in buckets - fill a plastic dustbin, pour in a boiling kettle, give it 20 mins and then serve! Seems to be enough to sdo the trick.

But of course it may well be an abscess that needs to fulminate before it gets better.

I am going to change to happy hoof and alfa beet eventually
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Absolutely not the right feed for my laminitics - nothing with alfalfa in it, or molasses. I'll PM you the URL of my site -0 have a quick look as it gives some fairly good diet advice for laminitics. You should also think about adding in Magnesium Oxide , but any good general mineral supplement would do as long as it has adequate copper, magnesium, zinc etc...(not a salt lick type though)
 
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brucea said:
Not fun is it - especially at this time of the year.

I'm sorry, you may not want to hear this, but my two lami lads don't do well on haylage and tend to get footy with it.

One of my lamis also has COPD - with him I steam the hay in buckets - fill a plastic dustbin, pour in a boiling kettle, give it 20 mins and then serve! Seems to be enough to sdo the trick.

But of course it may well be an abscess that needs to fulminate before it gets better.



Absolutely not the right feed for my laminitics - nothing with alfalfa in it, or molasses. I'll PM you the URL of my site -0 have a quick look as it gives some fairly good diet advice for laminitics. You should also think about adding in Magnesium Oxide , but any good general mineral supplement would do as long as it has adequate copper, magnesium, zinc etc...(not a salt lick type though)
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Why not alfalfa?
My lami boy thrives on alfa, doesn't get footy on it and looks very well.
I know some can't tolerate it, but to discount it totally seems a little extreme.
 
I know a number of lamis - two of them mine - none of them get on with alfalfa. It depends on the sensitivity of the pony.

With the lamis my approach tends to be "start with what you know is a safe to feed - then go from there" - like an exclusion diet.

If the feed manufacturers are telling you one thing, but the pony is telling you another, I'll believe the pony!

Alfalfa contains significantly more energy, protein and calcium than meadow hay and whilst it might be great for youngsters who need this, or sound hardworking competetion horses it is probably a useful thing - but for the metabolic type, sensitive laminitic horses it is really too much of a good thing and my personal feeling is that it should be avoided.

I know a local award winning dairy farmer who feeds it to his cows - massive bales of the stuff, because it keeps the weight on and gives higher quality milk. The cows often go off the cattle cake, and the alfalfa stimulates their appetite again.
 
brucea said:
I know a number of lamis - two of them mine - none of them get on with alfalfa. It depends on the sensitivity of the pony.

With the lamis my approach tends to be "start with what you know is a safe to feed - then go from there" - like an exclusion diet.

If the feed manufacturers are telling you one thing, but the pony is telling you another, I'll believe the pony!

Alfalfa contains significantly more energy, protein and calcium than meadow hay and whilst it might be great for youngsters who need this, or sound hardworking competetion horses it is probably a useful thing - but for the metabolic type, sensitive laminitic horses it is really too much of a good thing and my personal feeling is that it should be avoided.

I know a local award winning dairy farmer who feeds it to his cows - massive bales of the stuff, because it keeps the weight on and gives higher quality milk. The cows often go off the cattle cake, and the alfalfa stimulates their appetite again.
Click to expand...

Like you I tend to go by what my pony tells me, and he's not had any problems with alfa *touch wood*, although he doesn't really get much, and I tend to knock it back in spring/summer in favour of Fast Fibre as the limited grass he gets at that time replaces what he gets from the alfa in the winter.

I do wonder why so many of the so called laminitic safe feeds contain so much sugar(usually in the form of mollasses)....this is one thing my boy can not tolerate.
 
sleepingdragon10 said:
I do wonder why so many of the so called laminitic safe feeds contain so much sugar(usually in the form of mollasses)....this is one thing my boy can not tolerate.
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That's the million dollar question! Palatability, damp dust down, keep mollasses companies in business? :confused: I don't know, they also contain preservatives etc. which some horses seem to be senstive to.
I feed calmag as you can't get magnesium oxide over here without vet prescription and even that contains some mollasses. The company tell me it is just too dusty without. :confused:

My pony used to be able to eat grass 24/7 and any hay etc. Since her first bout of laminitis she has been able to eat a seemingly more and more restricted diet. Whether she is now more sensitive or I'm better at picking up on her sensitivity and relating it to diet I'm not sure. The point I'm making is just because they have been ok with certain foods in the past doesn't mean they always will be ok with the same.
I've learned that soaked hay is the best option in an actute attack. I even had one batch of hay that soaked wasn't doing the trick so had to buy seperate bales for her which when soaked did reduce her symptoms.
Hay can be very high in sugars and unless it is tested you have no choice but to go by horses symptoms. I have no qualms at all switching diet immediately in an acute attack.

Hope all your horses begin to improve soon.
 
I totally agree with amandap.
I too have nursed two lamintic ponies over the last 18months who have both tolerated quite different diets previously, including haylage. One thing I've learned is you've got to listen to the pony. If he isn't improving then you need to change something and I wouldn't hesitate to make radical changes to diet during an acute attack. You need to remove the feeds/haylage which are most likely causing your pony to continue with the laminits.
Feeding well soaked hay (and I've been soaking in temps down to -15) is probably the safest diet, along with a vitamin supplement plus magnesium. I don't feed my horses anything but hay (soaked for the laminitics) and balancer (designed for laminitics) with a sprinkling of mollass free chaff (top chop lite). I add fast fibre if they need 'more'. I'm no longer very trusting of the supposed 'laminitis trust' feeds either. My little mare couldn't tolerate molasses of any sort.
Good luck
 
and balancer (designed for laminitics)
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I think you should get the ingredients - and you might go go OOhhh...maybe that's not such a good idea!!

Before I got inot the barefoot way of thinking my pony had his worst ever laminitis attack - whilst getting the recommended amount of a balancer, recommended for laminitics, in a pink bag. It was only one of a number of contributing factors....to be fair, but it made me question

I also do not trust the Laminitis Trust logo. It is probably a good guide to the safer feeds, but whether they are entirely "safe" is down to what works for the individual pony.

Ok - I'm a bitter old lemon sucking Aberdonian :-) - It is a marketing tool, and it is a logo that the feed companies pay to use. That imediately makes it suspect, with vested interests in having it on a range of feeds. It is worth a minimum annual registration fee of £5000 a year to the trust for a feed company to use the logo (2002 figures). These logos influence buyer behaviour.

"the crude protein and simple sugars (mono- and di-saccharides) should not exceed 16 % and 7 % respectively of the product, assuming 12 % moisture content"

7% sugar is still a relatively high level of sugar when the recommended feeding rate is that is should supply 50-100% of the energy requirements of the horse.
 
I'm just reading on another Forum advice to bandage legs in cold weather to improve circulation in laminitis. What are peoples thoughts on this? Kind of makes sense to me especially if affected ponies are more likely to have atheroma (fatty depositis) in blood vessels. Bandaging is something imo needs much care so as not to impede circulation.

Eta. How's your horse doing op?
 
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