Totally totally unofficial but GB event team news

I've just looked at the BE stuff and it seems to me that there is more to be announced on back-up horses for Mary and William - they have obviously both, in conjunction with the selectors, nominated their preferred ride while Piggy appears to genuinely not have made her mind up yet, hence both rides being announced. The BE press release states that reserve horses and riders will be announced shortly - so it may well be that at that stage, NdC and PLH will be confirmed as reserves for William, and KT for Mary. At that stage we'll hear who else, besides Nicola, are reserves :)
 
The other thing no-one has mentioned, is that WFP has the grand slam to aim for next year at Badminton, along with the very real possibility of a double grand slam given that he has so many top class 4* horses. So whilst Lionheart feels very out of leftfield to me in comparison to say Parklane Hawk or NDC, perhaps there is an element of also wanting to keep his chances good for Badminton next year?
 
SpottedCat said:
The other thing no-one has mentioned, is that WFP has the grand slam to aim for next year at Badminton, along with the very real possibility of a double grand slam given that he has so many top class 4* horses. So whilst Lionheart feels very out of leftfield to me in comparison to say Parklane Hawk or NDC, perhaps there is an element of also wanting to keep his chances good for Badminton next year?
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Hmmm interesting angle, you cynic! But that sounds more Ollie style than WFP: I think William is intensely motivated by international honours and Olympic ones in particular - he has had a few unlucky moments and things have slipped out of his grasp. I believe he wants a Gold in London far more and it sounds from his quote as though he picked Lionheart as he feels he's most suited to it. His Bramham time faults are neither here nor there, he gave the horse an easy run. Push comes to shove, William is very wealthy, and whilst winning another Badminton and the Grand Slam would be fabulous for him, I honestly don't think it would be life-changing in the way it would be for most others. So for ttht reason, I don't think it figures in his current calculations.
 
PolarSkye said:
Why do you feel that the selectors need to justify their choices to us?
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Its a public matter, not a private one.

PolarSkye said:
As said above, they're not necessarily looking for Badminton-quality horses . . . remember the job Pippa Funnell had with Primmore's Pride on the cross country course in Athens? She said later that she found it really hard to keep a rhythm b/c he's a big, galloping horse and the course was tight and twisty and she kept having to take a pull.
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They won Individual Bronze and team silver - heardly a disaster! Are you seriously suggesting that a horse with similar characteristics should not be selected because of the performance of Primore's Pride in Athens?!

Its perhaps fortunate that eventing is a slightly odd sport in that the Olympics is not going to be in terms of difficulty, the pinnacle of the sport, and that it is dominated by a very few countries so that the UK is so strong in the event, they could probably pick a random selection of "names" and still do well.

That said, increasingly I think officaldom in equestrian sports is overly subjective and would not stand up to the robust scrutiny you see in other sports with more mass participation.
 
alidegg said:
He has matured alot as a horse since the test event and Piggy seriously rates him; his stop at houghton was down to rider error and very unlike him. And I dont think the fact he hasnt competed at 4* is especially relevent- his form at advanced and 3* (which is the level the olympics will be) is better than OBs.
Can you tell I'm a PF fan? ;)
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Did you actually see his 'stop' at Houghton, then?
Because I was standing at the fence where it happened, so it was about 4m from me...
and, it wasn't a stop at all.
it was a run-out. Okay, she didn't have the absolute best approach, she winged it a little tiny bit after the 2nd element, BUT so did other people and they went clear over it. We stood and watched a lot through that combination. She was the only one we saw have problems... ;) ;) ;)
If he's being forgiven that, then maybe Rayef should be forgiven his problems... because he's more likely to get 80% in the dressage, to put it bluntly!
 
Nicola and Dodi have had 1 stop in their 8 years together. very rarely getting time faults this surely is a better track record than most horses selected. I hate the way this has been done lets hope Nicloa had a better idea about all this than we did!

I feel for her greatly! IMO miners frolic got marked up in the dressage at bramham (it really wasnt that good) we sat listening in the members the comments from the commentry people in there we not great he looked tense!! not as good test as nicola zara or laura c!!! (not saying laura should have been selected!!)

sj minors frolic lacked sparkle had 3 down!! looked completely out classed! british team really needs to look at its show jumping!! both Laura and Nicola walked course with yogi both had the same fences down!! both rode same angles!! Following team orders has prob cost her the place!!

William and Piggy rode amazing clears as they both rode different lines to other brits!

rant over
 
welli said:
IMO miners frolic got marked up in the dressage at bramham (it really wasnt that good) we sat listening in the members the comments from the commentry people in there we not great he looked tense!! not as good test as nicola zara or laura c!!! (not saying laura should have been selected!!)

sj minors frolic lacked sparkle had 3 down!! looked completely out classed! british team really needs to look at its show jumping!! both Laura and Nicola walked course with yogi both had the same fences down!! both rode same angles!! Following team orders has prob cost her the place!!

William and Piggy rode amazing clears as they both rode different lines to other brits!

rant over
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Interesting...
Still can't believe Topper's been forgiven his run-out at Houghton. Maybe none of the selectors saw it... I'd forgive Rayef first, of the two, I think!
 
Re the people calling for a purely objective selection process, the Americans famously tried that after a very messy lawsuit incident. . .it was pretty much an unmitigated disaster!!
 
TarrSteps said:
Re the people calling for a purely objective selection process, the Americans famously tried that after a very messy lawsuit incident. . .it was pretty much an unmitigated disaster!!
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Agreed, it was terrible. You can't just do it on numbers, it has to have insight & understanding added too. The American system led to horses being run too many times, etc etc too.
I sincerely hope NW won't appeal, and I really hope that she'll get her place. Awful to want other horses to be counted out though...
 
kerilli said:
I sincerely hope NW won't appeal, and I really hope that she'll get her place. Awful to want other horses to be counted out though...
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This is my opinion too, but its so difficult to 'pick' which one she would be instead of (although for ease of watching the xc it would be MK for me! :) )
 
Imagine the bad feeling if you appealed and won. You would know you got your place on the team in spite of what the selectors thought, and if you messed up you would never be forgiven. The pressure would be ridiculous.
 
So much has happened between selection and the event in previous years. Anything can change. In the meantime I'm pleased for those that were selected, and sorry for those that weren't. I think someone on the other thread hit the nail on the head - if all goes well, this team can really shine rather than put in good steady performances that will place well but won't, perhaps, win.
 
Off topic but why does WFP have Lionheart, Parklane Hawk and Neuf des Coeurs (I'm guessing PH and NdC are his reserves) entered for the 2* at Barbury? Thought the final run was Barbury 3*? :confused:
 
kerilli said:
Awful to want other horses to be counted out though...
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Spoken by one who knows, 'twas ever thus when you are in reserve slot and it's human nature ;)

I hope she doesn't appeal, too, I've never heard of anyone being successful and it is demeaning. I'm quite certain the selectors have done their utmost to select the team which THEY BELIEVE has the best chance of winning a GOLD medal - time will tell if they are right.
 
kerilli said:
Did you actually see his 'stop' at Houghton, then?
Because I was standing at the fence where it happened, so it was about 4m from me...
and, it wasn't a stop at all.
it was a run-out. Okay, she didn't have the absolute best approach, she winged it a little tiny bit after the 2nd element, BUT so did other people and they went clear over it. We stood and watched a lot through that combination. She was the only one we saw have problems... ;) ;) ;)
If he's being forgiven that, then maybe Rayef should be forgiven his problems... because he's more likely to get 80% in the dressage, to put it bluntly!
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I have it on pretty good authority :p that she left the door open and trusted the horse where she wouldnt normally, hence calling it rider error... And up till then the horse looked bloody classy! His win at bleinham and burnham 3*s and the the numerous other top three placings at that level, coupled with the fact he and Pig have only 2 blips on their entire xc record together (coincidentally both at houghton!) I think proves his worth as a potential team horse.

I see what you mean about Rayef but at the same time he and LC have had two big whoopsies now which are more inexcusable than a silly run out imo :cool:
 
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kerilli said:
Agreed, it was terrible. You can't just do it on numbers, it has to have insight & understanding added too. The American system led to horses being run too many times, etc etc too.
I sincerely hope NW won't appeal, and I really hope that she'll get her place. Awful to want other horses to be counted out though...
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Feel real sorry for NW and Buzz, lovely person, star horse, maybe the disaster that is Greenwich and all that goes with it, is now coming home to roost. If we, as is being suggested, cannot pick our best cross-country horse for our British team, because he maybe could not cope with the twists and turns. Well done the Olympic Organising committee!!
 
From her website:

Nicola and Opposition Buzz named as reserves for Team GB
Nicola and Opposition Buzz have been named as reserves for the eventing team who will represent Team GB at the Olympics. 'Obviously I am gutted not to be selected for the Olympics, especially with the improvement that Opposition Buzz showed in the dressage phase at Bramham', says Nicola, who continues, 'I fully respect the selectors decision and wish the five riders who are part of Team GB at the Olympics the very best of luck'.

Good on her, such a good sport.
 
Her website has a statement saying she's gutted but supportive of the team members - doesn't sound much like the statement of someone who's preparing to appeal. I doubt she will - it's not very 'cricket' and would be unusual for this sport at least, where a supportive, sporting atmosphere is what makes it special.

I've already said this on the other thread, but unless someone on hear is Yogi or similar in disguise, we will never know the details behind the decisions. I agree with the 'it's a s*** or bust' theory.

Lets trust the selectors and support the team wholeheartedly from this point forwards. I for one will be screaming support (at the telly! Probably from behind the sofa cushions) for anyone with a Union Jack saddlecloth, irrespective of who they are.

C'mon Team GB!!!
 
Alfami said:
Lets trust the selectors and support the team wholeheartedly from this point forwards. I for one will be screaming support (at the telly! Probably from behind the sofa cushions) for anyone with a Union Jack saddlecloth, irrespective of who they are.

C'mon Team GB!!!
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Well said!
 
Freddie19 said:
Feel real sorry for NW and Buzz, lovely person, star horse, maybe the disaster that is Greenwich and all that goes with it, is now coming home to roost. If we, as is being suggested, cannot pick our best cross-country horse for our British team, because he maybe could not cope with the twists and turns. Well done the Olympic Organising committee!!
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It would be more of a disaster if the IOC had their way and horse sports, eventing especially, were ejected from the Olympics because they cannot be held in a big city close to all the other events on a temporary site. The IOC have been gunning to get rid of horse sports for years because they are considered expensive to host and elitist (which is not to say things like sailing are cheap and not elitist!)

If holding the equine events in Greenwich is what it took to keep them in the Olympics than I am all for it. If the Olympics hadn't been in London but had been an equally tight, twisty venue, and NW had been left out because of it, then you wouldn't be vilifying the organising committee for that and it would be exactly the same situation!
 
kerilli said:
I can maybe understand the omission of OB a bit more now, if his controllability around a very twisty tight course might be a problem.
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But didn't they do a fantastic job a few years ago on their first European team place - was it Pau? Somewhere really twisty and wooded, and I remember watching OB fly round for an impeccable clear within the time. I thought that would make him ideal for Greenwich? Although, there won't be the woods to back him off/corral him IYKWIM.

Edited to add: I for one wouldn't have been able to pick the team and I am glad that we have SO MANY quality horse/rider combinations that we are in the position of choosing between them. GO GB! :D
 
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alidegg said:
I have it on pretty good authority :p that she left the door open and trusted the horse where she wouldnt normally, hence calling it rider error... And up till then the horse looked bloody classy! His win at bleinham and burnham 3*s and the the numerous other top three placings at that level, coupled with the fact he and Pig have only 2 blips on their entire xc record together (coincidentally both at houghton!) I think proves his worth as a potential team horse.

I see what you mean about Rayef but at the same time he and LC have had two big whoopsies now which are more inexcusable than a silly run out imo :cool:
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hmmm. we were standing right there, alongside the third element, the skinny brush that she ran out at, on the side she ran out to. I saw it going wrong as she jumped the second element a bit free, and wasn't surprised by the run-out. I didn't see any 'leaving the door open' at all tbh. maybe it felt different to how it looked... ;) ;) ;)
Don't get me wrong, I think she's a truly great jockey... but we just cannot afford to have a horse on the team, however amazingly talented in every other area, that doesn't have an absolutely unwavering attitude to skinnies... we've had them on the team before, Tamarillo for example... the little git!

Pleased to hear that NW is being so gracious about it, but not surprised. She's a totally class act in every way.
BeckyD, i agree, OB whizzed around the Euros, as did MF, and it was a twisty tricky track. There was at least 1 fence where they had no warning at all, just came off the corner and jumped off the stride they were on.
It just shows our strength in depth that we could easily send a B team (of Nicola, Francis, Cutty, etc) which might well be as likely to get a medal as the A team...
 
When I read the selection last night, my first thought was surprise and a little disappointment not to see Nicola and Buzz's names up there, they have worked so hard and I love seeing that horse go XC, they deserved a place. After reading through all the discussion and opinions on here (and I won't bother to add my own as I think they've probably been said before) I am now just very excited for the sport and the games that we have so many top class combinations to choose from that the selection ahs caused such a lot of discussion. I hope we can all agree that we have some great horses and riders, who have all worked very hard to be there, I'll be backing them all 100%!
 
Sorry spotted cat, do not want to get involved in whether we would have lost Olympics, if eqine sports venues had been outside London, but, tell me again, where are the yachting, boating elements being held? Like I said this thread is about Nicola and Buzz, so that is my last word, not going to take away from the intelligent, experienced comments being posted on here by other p9sters.
 
Freddie19 said:
Sorry spotted cat, do not want to get involved in whether we would have lost Olympics, if eqine sports venues had been outside London, but, tell me again, where are the yachting, boating elements being held? Like I said this thread is about Nicola and Buzz, so that is my last word, not going to take away from the intelligent, experienced comments being posted on here by other p9sters.
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Ouch! Who knew I was so unintelligent and inexperienced. :rolleyes:

The sailing events have never been a target of the IOC in terms of ejecting them from the games. The equine events have. Add to that that even the most hard-headed member of the IOC can see that you do actually need water to host the sailing events, and they would have looked like prize idiots for saying that you need to hold them within the main city of the games, so them being held outwith London is a non-issue.
 
j1ffy said:
Slightly off-topic - a number of posters have said that the Olympics is a 3* - why has it been downgraded?? It was 4* in Hong Kong and at other Olympics. I know regional champs (e.g. European Champs) are 3* but thought Olympics are always 4. E.g. Check out MF's HK result:

http://www.britisheventing.com/asp-net/Events/Results.aspx?HorseId=55243
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I think it is technically classed as a 4* but is, and maybe rides, more of a 3* level. 'To allow a greater number of nations to compete successfully'.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! :confused:
 
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