Totilas even has special shoes?!

They look like a kind of heart bar shoes - not v unusual to see them used on flat footed horses as a way of mimicing the frog pressure and heel support that an unshod foot would get.
 
They help support the frog, no idea why he has them but could be something to do with the exaggeration of his foreleg movement, or he has flat feet.
 
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They look like heart bar shoes, my flat footed horse wore them to support his feet as his heels looked like they would collapse. He had them for a few months and is now in eggbar shoes (have like a mini dip on them) :)
 
Special shoes, a solarium - but apparently no field:(

And yes, I know that's probably not unusual for these 'top' horses - doesn't make it any less sad IMO. No horse should be too valuable to allow it time to be outside, being a horse.
 
Some horses hate being out , Spudlet would you insist on turning out horse that simple does not want to be out and jumps in when ever put in a field!! you say its cruel to not turn out , I say its to bloody risky to put any horse out full stop
 
Of all the horses I have known (and we're into triple figures these days) the vast majority have been happy to be out. This has included abused horses that spent literally years locked into stables. Yes, there are some horses that prefer to be in, but they are few and far between. And I suspect most of them are simply institutionalised - in fact, I'd go so far as to say mentally ill in some cases.

Too risky? Life is risky. We would all live a lot longer if we sat indoors all day and never took a risk, but what kind of life would that be? I would rather see a horse out in a field, booted up if you will, but better that than locked away in a little box, no matter how luxurious that little box might be.
 
i think your a bit disalusioned stroppy if im honest... it might be risky.. but if you dont want to take risks then take up knitting.. watch those nasty needles tho.. they might prick you. =oP

Horses are ment to be out, they are grazing animals.. ok some dont want to be.. but not giving hem the opportunity is wrong..

I worked for a women who owned and rode alot of grand prix horses, and they all had turn out.. ok so she risked them picking up an injury.. but if im honest, they were a hell of a lot more relaxed in them selfs.. and less likly to try and throw them selves round the stable.

Lou x
 
Spudlet Like I have said before, horses have a job and nothing should be put in the way of that, so turning out where they can be injured is a big NO , my horses and the other I know, 4 of them on one yard so not few and far between as you say are not remotely institutionalised or mentally ill, you speak as if you are the font of all knowledge yet most of your views are just ignorant.
 
OK love....:rolleyes: Oh, doesn't Carl Hester hack, and turn his horses out? Still, he's fairly ignorant, silly man. What does he know, hey?
 
stroppy said:
Spudlet Like I have said before, horses have a job and nothing should be put in the way of that, so turning out where they can be injured is a big NO , my horses and the other I know, 4 of them on one yard so not few and far between as you say are not remotely institutionalised or mentally ill, you speak as if you are the font of all knowledge yet most of your views are just ignorant.
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Surely the horses well-being and welfare is more important than it's job? I would never keep a horse in 24/7 unless it's on box rest or individual needs. Horses are wild grazing animals who need too be outside and being a horse, especially in the summer!
 
GypsyTheCob said:
Surely the horses well-being and welfare is more important than it's job? I would never keep a horse in 24/7 unless it's on box rest or individual needs. Horses are wild grazing animals who need too be outside and being a horse, especially in the summer!
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Disagree. 100%.

I imagine you are a pleasure rider/amateur competitor - as am I. Yours, and mine horse(s) are worth about 10% of what a horse like Toto is. The risk of injury is too great in relation to what is required of him. Edward Gal reported that when turned out Toto went absolutely beserk therefore heightening the likelihood of injury. Toto has enough variety in his work to keep his body and mind active - he does not act or look like a horse that is mentally ill and whose welfare has been compromised.

No. You wouldn't ever keep a horse on box rest unnecessarily, because it is your pet. Toto is a money maker, not somebodys precious little boy who can go and do whatever he wants. I actually agree that horses should be turned out as much as possible, but if my income and my career was dependent upon the ability of a horse like Toto - I assure you I wouldn't be turning it out in a field like a regular horse.

And for the record, we owned a TB cross pony, who hated being outside and was waiting at the gate to be brought in within the hour. You cannot generalize the demands and wants of an entire species and depict what is right or wrong.

Also, would you honestly say that your horse is a 'wild grazing animal'?? Isn't he your pet....or did you buy him, shove him in a field and leave him there to be a 'wild grazing animal'?....
 
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Spudlet said:
Special shoes, a solarium - but apparently no field:(

And yes, I know that's probably not unusual for these 'top' horses - doesn't make it any less sad IMO. No horse should be too valuable to allow it time to be outside, being a horse.
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Completely agree

stroppy said:
Some horses hate being out , Spudlet would you insist on turning out horse that simple does not want to be out and jumps in when ever put in a field!! you say its cruel to not turn out , I say its to bloody risky to put any horse out full stop
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I would question why the horse is jumping out, and not put it down to a simple "he prefers to be in".

stroppy said:
Spudlet Like I have said before, horses have a job and nothing should be put in the way of that, so turning out where they can be injured is a big NO , my horses and the other I know, 4 of them on one yard so not few and far between as you say are not remotely institutionalised or mentally ill, you speak as if you are the font of all knowledge yet most of your views are just ignorant.
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Whose views are ignorant now? Are you trolling or are you actually serious?

Nothing should be put in the way of a horse's job. Not mental health, not physical health, oh no sir, not a darn thing. :rolleyes:

nikkimariet said:
I actually agree that horses should be turned out as much as possible, but if my income and my career was dependent upon the ability of a horse like Toto - I assure you I wouldn't be turning it out in a field like a regular horse.
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Put bluntly, that's what insurance is for.

I don't care what level the horse is competing at and what they are worth - I think turnout is a pretty basic right every horse should have, and time spent int he stable should be kept to as little as is feasible.
 
There is also the issue of horses being herd animals, how can this need possibly be met if the animal is kept in a 12x12 box except when ridden. I also question what happens to the animal when it retires. This is not an earning machine, it is an animal, with the needs of an animal. If the only way that the connections can make money out of it is by keeping it in isolation then perhaps they should invest in racing bikes or cars instead.
 
YorksG said:
There is also the issue of horses being herd animals, how can this need possibly be met if the animal is kept in a 12x12 box except when ridden. I also question what happens to the animal when it retires. This is not an earning machine, it is an animal, with the needs of an animal. If the only way that the connections can make money out of it is by keeping it in isolation then perhaps they should invest in racing bikes or cars instead.
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Totally echo you YorksG!!!
They may well be worth hundreds of thousands,but they are horses at the end of the day and deserve the freedom a horse should get!Many top dressage riders allow their horses to live out,good for their mind!
 
You can argue what you like.

Is the horse in pain? No.
Is the horse happy? Yes.
Does he love his work? Yes.
Does he look well? Yes.

I am not one for keeping a horse in any longer than necessary. But I fail to see a problem with an owners decision if it is not affecting the welfare of a horse physically or mentally. He is obviously not being mentally affected by being kept in.

No I don't agree with it. I just don't think its peoples place to judge.
 
LizzyandToddy said:
You can argue what you like.

Is the horse in pain? No.
Is the horse happy? Yes.
Does he love his work? Yes.
Does he look well? Yes.

I am not one for keeping a horse in any longer than necessary. But I fail to see a problem with an owners decision if it is not affecting the welfare of a horse physically or mentally. He is obviously not being mentally affected by being kept in.

No I don't agree with it. I just don't think its peoples place to judge.
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We all have our opinions,as I stated mine above!BUT....None of us actually know the horses state of mind do we,yes he may well love his work,but it is possibly his enthusiasm just to be out of his box that makes him as expressive as he is??Has anybody here actually met him,and seen his attitude toward his stabled life?No I doubt it!??
 
How are you judging this horse to not be mentally affected? He will naturally look enthusiastic when out of his stable as it is a break from confinement..
It is fact that horses are designed to be moving herd animals. Not kept in a concrete stable with no window (this I find adds to the solitary confinement), for 22/23 hours a day. Able to see one other horse.
It is money making, pure and simple. And by owning an animal to have a responsibility to it to ensure you meet its needs as far as possible. Morally and legally. These people are making no effort. A window and a small turnout paddock would go a long way. If a horse injures itself in a paddock less than the size of an outdoor school it was going to injure itself anyway.
It is becoming less the norm thankfully, and most horse sjumping/calling ot get back in have been 'trained' by special food if they reach their stable.
 
LizzyandToddy said:
You can argue what you like.

Is the horse in pain? No.
Is the horse happy? Yes.
Does he love his work? Yes.
Does he look well? Yes.

I am not one for keeping a horse in any longer than necessary. But I fail to see a problem with an owners decision if it is not affecting the welfare of a horse physically or mentally. He is obviously not being mentally affected by being kept in.

No I don't agree with it. I just don't think its peoples place to judge.
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Agree with all of this.

SusieT - I am well aware of what insurance is for since my dad owns an insurance company, thanks.

http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=4538

That much money? Weigh it up against the risk.... Even if insurance does cover an accident, any injury to top horses like this would be a major loss to the competing world.
 
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hadfos said:
We all have our opinions,as I stated mine above!BUT....None of us actually know the horses state of mind do we,yes he may well love his work,but it is possibly his enthusiasm just to be out of his box that makes him as expressive as he is??Has anybody here actually met him,and seen his attitude toward his stabled life?No I doubt it!??
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And have you met him and seen his attitude towards his stabled life? No. I doubt it.

SusieT said:
It is fact that horses are designed to be moving herd animals. Not kept in a concrete stable with no window (this I find adds to the solitary confinement), for 22/23 hours a day. Able to see one other horse.
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Toto gets taken out his stable a number of times a day for hand grazing, or he did with EG not sure what it's like with MR. He is not in solitary confinement in a darkened box and in a situation where he only sees the light of day when he is brought out to work - and quite a few of you are acting like he is.
 
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I thought they had tried turning him out and he panicked and couldn't be left in the field?

Regardless of what has made him like that, to turn him out now would be cruel.
 
All my horses are out, 24/7.....I would NEVER have them in unless there is a real need to, eg - injury and vet says.....etc etc.....

Personally, I think it's cruel to keep a horse in ALL THE TIME.......what about just hanging out with other horses, whether it's stood next to the one in the next paddock....?

What about being able to run and jump about, kicking it's heels in the air?

What about having a roll, and laying in the sun?

What about it's natural way of 'foraging' about to find food?

Look at chickens, all they want to do is scratch and peck about, flapping their wings out sometimes. Stuck in a battery cage, they have no hope.

A horse in the stable 24/7 surely is like the battery hen, in a similar way.

I don't care HOW well-looked after it is, you are removing at least SOME of the natural ways the horse lives.

Don't care how much it's worth either, I guess it comes down to the usual thing, MONEY.
 
What struck me is that he is in boots in every picture that shows his legs.

Surely a horse that is capable of such dressage movements should be able to manage an in hand walk without striking himself.

I just can't imagine living in my socks day in day out :(.
 
nikkimariet said:
Agree with all of this.

SusieT - I am well aware of what insurance is for since my dad owns an insurance company, thanks.

http://www.dressage-news.com/?p=4538

That much money? Weigh it up against the risk.... Even if insurance does cover an accident, any injury to top horses like this would be a major loss to the competing world.
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A major loss to the competing world? What a shame - sorry but a horses welfare should always be paramount to our gains. The risk should never be too great to provide a horse with basic needs, such as turnout.
 
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