Totilas Stud Fee 5,000 - 5,500

I don't think it is that bad, semen from animals like WH Justice are now fetching £10000+, it just deters the wannabe's and there is less chance that people will try to produce from a sub standard mare at this price.
 
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I don't think it is that bad, semen from animals like WH Justice are now fetching £10000+, it just deters the wannabe's and there is less chance that people will try to produce from a sub standard mare at this price.

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Why don't they reduce the price and just select the best mares?
 
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they probably want to attract the right people, along with the right mares..

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yeah, i'm sure its nothing to do with wanting to make the most money possible! not that there is anything wrong with that.

if they really were mainly interested in getting the best mares they would have a lower stud fee and just approve which mares get inseminated.

i would rather use Gribaldi semen if still available.
 
Isn't it funny how in the sports world we think that is high yet in racing it is nothing for a horse of this calibre. Has he any foals on the ground to back up the fee? Thats the difference a racehorse will have stock on the track 3yrs from covering his mares, so you can have a better inclination as to the justification for his fee. Will Totilas offspring recoup the stud fee, 1st batch more then likely. They will be professionally produced & given every opportunity to suceed, so there will be no excuse if he does not make a great sire.
 
yes but so few foals in the warmblood world get sold for the mega money that some TB foals do....once they do, I am sure people would pay more for a stud fee

I would use him, but can I guarantee that a foal he produces will be purchased for over £10,000 to make it even moderately worth my while? Not sure..

edited to add that I think you are right Magic in that the first batch will sell for the most....
 
A lot of money IMO for a stallion who is unproven in breeding terms. The best horse in the world doesn't guarantee the best foals, some horses just don't make good sires.

However, I have no doubt they will get plenty of mares even at that price.

I'm another who would rather use Gribaldi, at least until Totilas has foals on the ground.
 
As someone else has said, I was expecting a higher stud fee too... considering his results as a competition horse and the comments and marks he receives for these movements.

It is a high fee, but then he is a really exceptional horse...
 
I agree with Touchwood - i certainly wouldnt pay that even if i had it, regardless of what he has achieved. He has no foals on the ground and just because he is amazing under saddle dosen't mean his foals are going to be the same.

I would possibly pay that (if i had it) if he had proven youngstock or if you could see his first crop of foals. Id much rather just use Gribaldi.
 
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I don't think it is that bad, semen from animals like WH Justice are now fetching £10000+, it just deters the wannabe's and there is less chance that people will try to produce from a sub standard mare at this price.

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Totilas and WH Justice are in entirely different marketplaces so are not comparable to one another in any way and from most sport horse breeders perspectives it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. I am struggling to think of many world class sports stallions whose stud fee is anything near the amount being asked for Totilas.
 
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Donnerhall frozen semen is 4000 Euro

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Yes but Donnerhall is deceased AND is regarded as one of the most fundamental stallions in the world of dressage breeding, and is a legend in his own right through his dynasties. You cannot compare him to Totilas at all I am afraid.
 
Touchwood,

I've read through all the replies on this theme, and just about all have a valid point to make. I thought, however, that yours was the closest to the point which I would reinforce.

I suppose that if we were to send a donkey off to this exalted stallion then we will get what we deserve, a half bred donkey.

Mare selection is vital, with particular emphasis being given to the mare line. What have the first, second and third dams produced? If the answer to that is nothing, then we will have spent a fortune on a stud fee, which assuming that we get a foal, will produce a horse with a drastically reduced chance of success.

I will be honest, in that I'm staggered at the stud fee of 5k for a horse which is unproven, mare selection or not.

The point was raised previously, about the level of the best TB's stud fees. The important point about this is that the mares record must be such that it will justify such huge expense. Generally we, in Britain, don't use the very best competition mares to breed with. Those very best mares tend to compete, sadly perhaps.

Consider Jumbo. By all accounts his stud fee was, initially, reasonably set, presumably to attract interest. The current levy is still, in my opinion very reasonable. Jumbo must have covered many hundreds of highly unsuitable mares, with predictable results. Had his stud fee been elevated as has that of Tortilas, then his proven progeny would have had a much higher percentage of success.

Perhaps the owners of Tortilas are right, though regardless of the mare which I owned, for an unproven stallion, I'm damned if I'd risk 5000 Euros.

Alec.
 
Someone certainly has a sense of humour
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At the moment I don't think average breeders can justify paying that sort of money for an unproven stallion. I would rather pay the 4000 euros for Donnerhall!!! I would take a chance on Totilas if his stud fee was half what it is. What happens if you pay that sort of money and the foals/offspring have bad temperaments or are untrainable. His progeny could be late developers etc so it would take longer for breeders to justify having paid a large sum of money to use him.
 
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Donnerhall frozen semen is 4000 Euro

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Yes but Donnerhall is deceased AND is regarded as one of the most fundamental stallions in the world of dressage breeding, and is a legend in his own right through his dynasties. You cannot compare him to Totilas at all I am afraid.

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I wasn't comparing him. I was just replying to Blitzen's post that said she/he was struggling to think of world class sports stallions whose stud fee was comparable to Totilas'.
 
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I am struggling to think of many world class sports stallions whose stud fee is anything near the amount being asked for Totilas.

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Donnerhall frozen semen is 4000 Euro

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I am confused by what the point of the above comment is? 4000 Euros is £3,500 which is nowhere near £5,000. Donnerhall is precisely one of the horses I had in my mind when I said I am struggling to think of many horses with a stud fee of anywhere near the £5,000 figure. A £1,500 price difference does not count as "anywhere near" to me.
 
The thing is, people WILL take the risk with him as an unproven stallion. I would put a lot of money on various bigger studs in Holland already having mares lined up to use him on. If the semen proves ok, of course. Why? Because if his first crop prove good, the price will rocket. And even if the crop is just ok, putting "by Totilas" on an advertisement will pay out (especially in the UK, or am I just being cynical here.......).

What would I use him on? He's not a big horse, and he is quite chunky. He has a nearly perfect conformation, perhaps a slightly short neck. He's not excessively hot and quite easy going (prize givings etc). His one flaw is a slightly indifferent hind leg in the trot extensions. I would use him on an elegant modern type mare with a good length of neck and a very good hind leg. Maybe something by Jazz......Just thinking.......
 
Whats the point of your post ????

Faberge was only trying to be helpful by highlighting another expensive stud fee

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Are you an anal german by chance
 
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Whats the point of your post ????

Faberge was only trying to be helpful by highlighting another expensive stud fee

frown.gif
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Are you an anal german by chance

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The point of my post is very clear. £3,500 is not £5,000. I do not class £3,500 as prohibitively expensive for semen from the likes of Donnerhall who was a proven sire, with proven offspring on the ground. I do class £5,000 expensive for an unproven sire but in any case those two figures are not even close.
 
He is very very over-priced.....BUT because he will be the buzz-word in dressage for the next few years and everyone will eagerly anticipate his foals i should think the first crop will reach very good money. However, I still think he is very over-priced considering he is unproven in this field.
 
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Whats the point of your post ????

Faberge was only trying to be helpful by highlighting another expensive stud fee

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Are you an anal german by chance

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Thanks LHS I did think it was rather an agressive reply too!
 
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