Towing question! Rather confessed here

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Rose&Arnie

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Hello all!

Sorry I know this has probably been asked before but I couldn't find anything. Basically I've been told by the northern Ireland cheval dealer that I can tow legally with my B1 on my driver's licence as long as it stays weight wise under 3.5kg. So far I've rang cheval England, they told me to ring the DVLA which I did, the girl on the phone said 1st that I couldn't then when I told her my set up she said I could but the ring a MOT centre when i asked about down plating which I then did, they told me they would ring back but they never did. At this point my eyes are ready to fall out! 😖

Can anyone help shed some light please?

I passed my test in June 2012.

My set up is a vw Passat 2.0 sport diesel turbo. I think from memory its 1.7kg and can pull 1.8kg.
The box I'm looking at getting is the new cheval touring at 850kg.
My horse is 15hh 440kg.

Don't want a single box as I will be getting a bigger car at some point and doing my test so I can tow 2 horses.

Nobody so far I've talked to in Northen Ireland has any idea about down plating, or it seems towing legally!!

Thank you for reading ☺
Rose
 
If it's the same as in mainland England (which I'm guessing it is as you're in NI) then the MAM of the car and trailer have to equal less than 3500 kg. So you aren't looking at the unladen weight of the trailer, but it's maximum authorised mass, that's the number that needs downplating.

You need to add weight of unladen trailer+ weight of horse + 50-100 kg of tack, passenger, water, feed depending upon how much you're taking with you and take that number from the MAM of the trailer to find out how much you need to down-plate to get under 3.5 tonnes. Cheval ought to make a new plate for the trailer for you which I think you just screw on in place of the old one.

I've come to the conclusion it's easier in the long run to just do the B+E test.
 
I was under the impression on a normal car license you could drive a 3.5ton lorry but could only tow about 750kg if it was a trailer, Or maybe i read it wrong somewhere :)
 
Keep under 3.5 tonnes ,the law (or rather how it is interpreted) is an ass. Do you seriously believe that any police or vosa person understands it either. Go on line and purchase a trailer weight plate and stamp the numbers you need ,on it. then pop rivet it where the old one was . Job done, youare legal. I have read the regulations inside and out and can tell you categorically that you do not need the manufacturer to down plate a trailer . Anyone can do it .
 
AppyLover said:
I was under the impression on a normal car license you could drive a 3.5ton lorry but could only tow about 750kg if it was a trailer, Or maybe i read it wrong somewhere :)
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Not correct - for B licence towing its the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM which must not exceed 3500 kg

Mike007 said:
Go on line and purchase a trailer weight plate and stamp the numbers you need ,on it. then pop rivet it where the old one was . Job done, youare legal. I have read the regulations inside and out and can tell you categorically that you do not need the manufacturer to down plate a trailer . Anyone can do it .
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If you do that it will be an ILLEGAL weight plate - the law is clear on that

Do not know where Mike got his info from but it deffo an iffy source !
 
SuperCat007 said:
If it's the same as in mainland England (which I'm guessing it is as you're in NI) then the MAM of the car and trailer have to equal less than 3500 kg. So you aren't looking at the unladen weight of the trailer, but it's maximum authorised mass, that's the number that needs downplating.

You need to add weight of unladen trailer+ weight of horse + 50-100 kg of tack, passenger, water, feed depending upon how much you're taking with you and take that number from the MAM of the trailer to find out how much you need to down-plate to get under 3.5 tonnes. Cheval ought to make a new plate for the trailer for you which I think you just screw on in place of the old one.
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Passengers do not come into the calculation for trailer loads unless you intend to put people in the trailer !!!!!!

Put tack in car and that also will not come into the trailer load max

car GVW = max that car + contents can weigh
trailer MAM = max trailer + contents can weigh
 
ROG said:
Not correct - for B licence towing its the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM which must not exceed 3500 kg


If you do that it will be an ILLEGAL weight plate - the law is clear on that

Do not know where Mike got his info from but it deffo an iffy source !
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Oh Thanks Learn something new everyday 😊 (I also apologise for suggesting the wrong info sorry 😊)
 
Thank you all for your help and information!! Really appreciate it.

Cheval (well the guy I spoke to) don't seem to know anything about down plating, going to try and get hold of someone else at cheval, since I'm buying it knew I'm hoping down plating will be easy!
 
ROG said:
Not correct - for B licence towing its the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM which must not exceed 3500 kg


If you do that it will be an ILLEGAL weight plate - the law is clear on that

Do not know where Mike got his info from but it deffo an iffy source !
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I would hardly describe the construction and use regulations as an iffy source. Have you actually read them Rog
 
Mike007 said:
I would hardly describe the construction and use regulations as an iffy source. Have you actually read them Rog
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YES and so have all the trailer manufacturers

Perhaos you would like to quote fron those regs where it states a home made plate is legal ?
 
It doesnt have to say it is legal in the regulations. It is legal unless the regulation states otherwise . The regulations require that a plate must be affixed and that it must carry certain specified information . It does not matter who puts it there providing that the weights do not exceed the design weights the manufacturer originally gave
 
Mike007 said:
It doesnt have to say it is legal in the regulations. It is legal unless the regulation states otherwise . The regulations require that a plate must be affixed and that it must carry certain specified information . It does not matter who puts it there providing that the weights do not exceed the design weights the manufacturer originally gave
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If you wish to read it that way then you are welcome to do so but its not the legal reality

Try calling or Emailing the NTTA and ask them for legal advice on this or perhaps IW who also know the laws

I would also suggest a solicitor conversant with C&U & RTA regs but that can get expensive !
 
OP, The Cheval Liberte Touring weighs 830kg unladen according to their website, and has a MAM of 2000kg. If your car weighs 1700kg, to get within the 3500kg you'll need to downplate it to 1800kg (which conveniently is also the car's towing capacity so you don't have worry about which is the lower number). As it weighs 830kg this will still allow you to put 970kg worth of load on your trailer which is more than enough for your one horse. Even if your car weighs more, and you need to downgrade the trailer further you'll still have plenty of leeway.

Happy towing!
 
I do believe I am well enough qualified not to require someonelses interpretation or rather misinterpretation. The first question a judge would ask is "where does it say that the user of a trailer cannot fit or change the plate required by the regulations".
 
annagain said:
OP, The Cheval Liberte Touring weighs 830kg unladen according to their website, and has a MAM of 2000kg. If your car weighs 1700kg, to get within the 3500kg you'll need to downplate it to 1800kg (which conveniently is also the car's towing capacity so you don't have worry about which is the lower number). As it weighs 830kg this will still allow you to put 970kg worth of load on your trailer which is more than enough for your one horse. Even if your car weighs more, and you need to downgrade the trailer further you'll still have plenty of leeway.

Happy towing!
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Car is empty at about 1700 but the GVW around 2000 is the figure for licencing
 
Mike007 said:
I do believe I am well enough qualified not to require someonelses interpretation or rather misinterpretation. The first question a judge would ask is "where does it say that the user of a trailer cannot fit or change the plate required by the regulations".
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Then everyone else must be reading the law incorrectly !
 
What would be the point in trailers having MAM plates if any Tom, Dick or Harry could just make their own and stick it over to suit their needs :D The companies set the MAM's, it makes sense that only they can change them.
 
Mike007 said:
It does not matter who puts it there providing that the weights do not exceed the design weights the manufacturer originally gave
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This is the critical bit for me. To drop the MAM below that specified by the manufacturer would not be a safety issue so home made would probably get away with it. To increase the MAM above the manufactured max would potentially be a safety issue and therefor should only be done by the maufacturer.
 
PaddyMonty said:
This is the critical bit for me. To drop the MAM below that specified by the manufacturer would not be a safety issue so home made would probably get away with it. To increase the MAM above the manufactured max would potentially be a safety issue and therefor should only be done by the maufacturer.
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A manufacturer cannot put on a MAM weight above design weight - well, they can but leave themselves open to court action !
 
There is no requirement for any trailer other than unbraked ones under 750 to carry a weight plate if under 3.5 ton. Even on those trailers it does not need to a plate as such as the rules state that the maximum weight should be marked on the trailer without specifying how. However I would say if its for towing on a B licence the only way to achieve it is to have a trailer marked at a lower weight to allow you to use it. If no weight on the trailer it will be assumed your maximum permissible weight is the sum of the tyres loaded weight or 3.5 ton which ever is the lighter.
 
Mike007 said:
It doesnt have to say it is legal in the regulations. It is legal unless the regulation states otherwise . The regulations require that a plate must be affixed and that it must carry certain specified information . It does not matter who puts it there providing that the weights do not exceed the design weights the manufacturer originally gave
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It is not a legal requirement to have a weight plate on a trailer under 3.5 ton if braked.
 
ROG said:
Correct BUT if there is no weight plate then the authorities will take the total of the tyre load ratings as the MAM
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I realise as stated above that is no help to drivers wishing to go on a B licence. One of the silly quirks in the laws.
 
popsdosh said:
It is not a legal requirement to have a weight plate on a trailer under 3.5 ton if braked.
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Sorry but that is also wrong. May I refer you to schedule 8 of the construction and use regulations.And of course read regulation 66.
 
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Op, I got my cheval liberte trailer downplated last week. Cost £12 and was quite easy- emailed them using main uk website, told them what weight I needed and they sent out plate.
 
Mike007 said:
Sorry but that is also wrong. May I refer you to schedule 8 of the construction and use regulations.And of course read regulation 66.
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If a person has an old rice trailer where the weight plate is missing then no legal weight plate can be made and fitted - many have found that out on this site
that is why the total of the tyre load ratings are used

I wonder who you are consulting with to get this mis-information ?

I consult with many different authorities before stating something as fact - no harm in posting an opinion as long as its made clear that is what it is - an opinion
 
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