Towing weights and licenses questions!!

[happyhacking:)]

Hi wondered if anyone could help.

Just looking into a potential business opportunity that has come my way. In order to make it happen I need to change my car to something that I can tow a horse trailer and take my b+e license.
My questions really are
1) what are people's experiences like towing with big estate cars rather than 4x4s (don't really want the added expense of a 4x4 if I can possibly avoid it). For the business I would need to routinely take out one small pony and kits (weighing approx 500kg) so weight wise I don't think I need anything too big. It would be nice to be able to take out my riding horses from time to time which together would weigh less than 900kg but this is not essential at the moment.
2) I know I need a b+e license but would I also need anything to cover business use (hire and reward) ect? Not wuite sure on where I stand on this and whether I have to take out one individually or whether the company as a whole needs to?

Thanks for any help!

 

[Theocat]

There are various transporter licences you would need, plus insurance etc and all the paraphernalia of being a business and paying tax.

I suspect you'll find paying customers are much happier if you are towing with a 4x4, and you can't operate a business if you can't, for example, tow easily on wet grass.

Absolutely not wanting to put a downer on it, but I suspect once you work out the costs and requirements of getting started, especially as you don't already have a licence, the income you're likely to bring in will not be worthwhile.

 

[happyhacking:)]

Thanks for response.
I'm not worried by the economics of it as we most definitely have a market for what we will be doing.
Due to nature of the job all parking will be on car parks/ hardstanding so don't need to worry about that.
My clients won't be worried/know/care about what type of vehicles I use so again not an issue.
I can't say what the business is but it's not about the pony it's about what the pony enables people to do that will sell this business and as such it's not a horse world business.

 

[ROG]

I cannot help with moving animal commercial regulations but I can help with other issues

If you only need to carry 500kg in a trailer then you can do that on a B licence and in doing so will bring you under tacho and O licence regs

Using something like a Skoda Octavia (maybe a 4x4 model) with a Bateson Derby trailer down plated will give you this for legally towing on a B licence ........

http://carleasingmadesimple.com/bus...octavia-diesel-estate_3/70454/technical-data/
GVW 1998
Towing capacity 2000


http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/trailer/1014
Unladen/empty 675
MAM 1700 but down plated to 1500

Max load for trailer 825kg

 

[Michen]

Well there are people who will tell you that you can and should only tow horses with a monster 4x4. For a lot of us that's just not feasible though and I think as long as you are sensible about it an estate is ok- and I did A LOT of research. I town my 902kg 505 with a 450kg Connie in it with my VW Tiguan. It is a 4WD but I would have got the 2WD no bother it's just I want to be able to tow on grass etc. towing capacity 2000kg. 2WD are 1800kg I think. So I am towing well within my cars capabilities.

Would I take another horse? Yes probably for short distances on slow roads (not a motorway). Whilst technically I have a spare 650kg to play with, I would not want to be towing on or near the max towing limit on things like motorways where I am likely to experience cross winds or lorries overtaking and "sucking" the trailer in. I'd rather the car wasn't pulling near it's max weight in this situation so that it has more chance of keeping the trailer etc straight. I also wouldn't expect my car to be much good at towing it's max capacity out of muddy fields.

I am not an experienced tower at all, have only just started but this is my reasoning and "logic" behind deciding what I am an aren't willing to tow.

 

[Tiddlypom]

No suggestions re insurance implications, but I can state that Skoda Octavia 4x4 estate cars are awesome. They are tough, economical and reliable, and depending on which model you get, can tow up to 2000 kg. We have just bought an Octavia Scout 4x4 estate (the ruggedised version of the estate), and it is awesome to drive. It will be the family car and back up tow vehicle, haven't towed with it as yet but you can tell that towing will be easy for it. It drives mostly in 2wd but the 4wd kicks in automatically if it's needed. It is reassuringly rock solid on our local muddy, bendy and pot hole infested roads.

Having towed with various 2wd cars over many years, I'd always recommend going for 4wd capability for towing if possible.

 

[ROG]

If for commercial towing over a total of 3500 kg total plated combined MAM then it may come under tacho regs which means having a tachograph fitted into the vehicle and then adhering to the EU tacho regs = big headache

 

[happyhacking:)]

Thanks.
Will do b+e cos it allows me tow bigger with suitable car. Trailer will always come up a bit heavier as will need to be adapted slightly to suit our business needs and also if something should happen to the car the business would then hire an emergency car in the short term. so to make sure I would always be legal I will do the b+e.
Looking at the bhs site it would suggest that we won't need operation licenses which would be s relief as its one less thing to worry about!

 

[ROG]

Thanks.
Will do b+e cos it allows me tow bigger with suitable car. Trailer will always come up a bit heavier as will need to be adapted slightly to suit our business needs and also if something should happen to the car the business would then hire an emergency car in the short term. so to make sure I would always be legal I will do the b+e.
Looking at the bhs site it would suggest that we won't need operation licenses which would be s relief as its one less thing to worry about!

How will you address the tacho issue ?

 

[popsdosh]

How will you address the tacho issue ?

Listen to ROG if for business purposes any combination over 3500kg MAM needs a tachograph and there are not many cars that have that facility . Most 3.5 ton towing vehicles nowadays are factory fitted to have the tacho installed if needed.

 

[happyhacking:)]

I'm not intending on going over 3.5 tonne for business use. I just want to have the license so I don't have to downplate trailer and so we could still use it to go to shows/ beach ect for pleasure and I'd legally be able to tow it.

 

[popsdosh]

I'm not intending on going over 3.5 tonne for business use. I just want to have the license so I don't have to downplate trailer and so we could still use it to go to shows/ beach ect for pleasure and I'd legally be able to tow it.

Tacho is based on plated weights so your in a bit of an unfortunate situation! Does not matter what weight you have on if the combination has a total MAM exceeding 3500kg you will need a tacho to use it for business. Of course its up to you if you take the risk!!

 

[ROG]

I'm not intending on going over 3.5 tonne for business use. I just want to have the license so I don't have to downplate trailer and so we could still use it to go to shows/ beach ect for pleasure and I'd legally be able to tow it.

Are you referring to max 3.5 tonnes actual weight or max 3.5 tonnes plated weight when towing a trailer for commercial use ?

 

[ROG]

Example using same towing set up

Vehicle 2000 GVW with a towing capacity of 2000
Trailer plated at 2000 MAM weighing 1000 empty
Total plated GVW/MAM weight = 4000

Loading the trailer with either 500 or 1000 does not change the total plated weight

The total plated weight is used for driver licencing, tacho and O licencing

Actual weight being 3500 or under makes no difference to the above

 

[ROG]

The only way you could use a set up under 3500 for commercial use and then tow over 3500 for private use is to have two trailers with one possibly being down plated to carry one horse and the other trailer not down plated to travel 2 horses for private use under B+E rules

that is the only solution I can think of

 

[happyhacking:)]

The only way you could use a set up under 3500 for commercial use and then tow over 3500 for private use is to have two trailers with one possibly being down plated to carry one horse and the other trailer not down plated to travel 2 horses for private use under B+E rules

that is the only solution I can think of

Sorry this is what I meant! The business trailer would be adapted and therefore would only be able to be used for business use do downplaying it to 1500kg isn't a problem. For my own trailer however 1500kg would not allow me to legally tow two 400kg horses.

Should have been more specific that there would be potentially two trailers involved sorry!

 

[ROG]

Sorry this is what I meant! The business trailer would be adapted and therefore would only be able to be used for business use do downplaying it to 1500kg isn't a problem. For my own trailer however 1500kg would not allow me to legally tow two 400kg horses.

Should have been more specific that there would be potentially two trailers involved sorry!

That would have been useful info ........... and as stated would work with the right set ups

 

[happyhacking:)]

Looks like we might be exempt from it anyhow as it appears you can be up to 7500kg if your taking equipment to place of work and back again and if the person driving is using the equipment for his/her work. So as we would be leaving yard driving to location and using pony and kit for job and then returning to yard I think we might fall under these conditions. Will contact vosa for clarification though. Thanks for everyone's help

 

[ROG]

Looks like we might be exempt from it anyhow as it appears you can be up to 7500kg if your taking equipment to place of work and back again and if the person driving is using the equipment for his/her work. So as we would be leaving yard driving to location and using pony and kit for job and then returning to yard I think we might fall under these conditions. Will contact vosa for clarification though. Thanks for everyone's help

True but only within 100km radius of home/base

 

[happyhacking:)]

True but only within 100km radius of home/base

All the work is likely to be within 20 miles of our base so not a problem 😀