Towing weights - very confused

S

sbsmiths

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 April 2009
Messages
161
Location
Leics/Notts/Derby borders
Visit site
I've read lots of posts about which vehicles should/should not be used for towing. As I understand it, you should not exceed 85% of your vehicle's kerb weight. BUT!! why are the "towing capacity" weights so much more? My vehicle's 85% kerb weight is about 1500 kg but it's towing capacity is 2000 kg. I've looked at several 4 x 4's towing weights and for example, one Shogun's towing capacity is 2800 kg but it's 85% kerb weight is only 1980 so on those figures it wouldn't be able to tow an Ifor 511's gross laden weight of 2700 kg. Can somebody please enlighten me as I'm extremely confused.
 
Here youare, straight from the department of transport: In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.

For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.

The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.

It is not a requirement to display a notice of the unladen weight of the trailer or the towing vehicle, unless the towing vehicle is either a motor tractor or a locomotive, as defined in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986
Not a mention of 85% in it.
 
Thanks Mike007 - have read that a couple of times - think I understand it!! I've read about gross train weight before but can't find my vehicle's gtw quoted anywhere - only it's towing capacity (2000 kg). I'm sure if I stay well below the towing capacity I'll be safe and legal?? Only got a ford galaxy and can't afford to change to 4 x 4 till next year but have bought a lightweight Bateson (850 kg) and will only carry one horse (650 kg).
 
The 85% 'rule' (which is a guide rather than a rule) is because a vehicle's maximum towing weight is about power not safety, and doesn't take into account driving on motorways, in high winds, down steep hills, or with moving objects (Horses!) in them, just on whether the vehicle can pull away up a hill with that weight attached.
 
Dont worry too much about gross train weight, It merely means the maximum kerb weight of your car,plus the towing capacity.
 
emma69 said:
The 85% 'rule' (which is a guide rather than a rule) is because a vehicle's maximum towing weight is about power not safety, and doesn't take into account driving on motorways, in high winds, down steep hills, or with moving objects (Horses!) in them, just on whether the vehicle can pull away up a hill with that weight attached.
Click to expand...
Pure nonsense, of course they are about safety,and the manufacturer has to demonstrate this for type approval. All vehicles are subject to high winds , and carrying livestock is a hazard for all vehicles. And as for steep hills, providing the trailer brakes are maintained properly there is no problem. What is a problem is how people drive.
 
Perhaps my knowledge does not take into account UK / European laws and they have high wind / moving livestock tests. In the US and Canada they do not, and I was told they did not in Europe either, but I acknowledge that my information may be flawed, as it was a North American expert talking to me about it all. I apologize if those tests are additional in Europe.
 
Just to add, the Caravan Club in the UK says something very similar about towing capacity being based on modest hill tests, not assessed for motorway driving etc. so perhaps it is similar.
 
emma69 said:
Perhaps my knowledge does not take into account UK / European laws and they have high wind / moving livestock tests. In the US and Canada they do not, and I was told they did not in Europe either, but I acknowledge that my information may be flawed, as it was a North American expert talking to me about it all. I apologize if those tests are additional in Europe.
Click to expand...
Thing is in america they have lots of proper towing vehicles like big pick ups, they also mostly use electric brakes controled by the towing vehicle whereas we have overrun brakes they also tow at higher speeds than we do they also have the most superb horse trailers with living quarters that make an oakley horse box look like a slum on wheels, which are towed by a ball hitch in a pick up bed and the laws are very different in america so what they do isnt relevant to us here in the uk...
 
emma69 said:
Just to add, the Caravan Club in the UK says something very similar about towing capacity being based on modest hill tests, not assessed for motorway driving etc. so perhaps it is similar.
Click to expand...
sorry not intreted what the beardy type wallys of the caravan club think or do!!! the law is the law and that is what we need to work with..
 
"beardy type wallys" have been towing vehicles for years, and it isn't anything to do with what they think, they, like I, understand that a towing weight based on hill starts and loads that do not shift in transit is different to the real life situations of towing.

As for the US, I could tow a trailer that is identical to one in the UK - not all people tow with pick ups or have goose neck trailers - plenty of people tow with a 4x4 just like they do in the UK. The point tho, was not to do with how Americans and Canadians drive, but how the very large auto industry test for and label towing weights, which, after looking further, seems substantially the same as in Europe.
 
To add... the law says I have right of way if I walk in front of a car crossing the street on my way home. Common sense and safety say otherwise. Just because something is law does not immediately make it safe.
 
The automotive industry doesnt choose how to test vehicles the are TOLD. IN ordet to get type approval for the uk vehicles must meet our standards.
 
emma69 said:
To add... the law says I have right of way if I walk in front of a car crossing the street on my way home. Common sense and safety say otherwise. Just because something is law does not immediately make it safe.
Click to expand...
I realy dont understand..what is the point you are trying to make ???
 
Last edited:
Do you have what those tests are? Because after looking again, it does seem entirely up to each individual manufacturer how they determine the weight, with no independent standard, and that the most common test is a pull-away on a 1 in 8 gradient hill, no speed / side wind / moving livestock componants for any manufacturers that I can find.
 
That a law in itself does not mean something is safe.

Sometimes safe requires additional measure over and above what the law specifies.
 
emma69 said:
That a law in itself does not mean something is safe.

Sometimes safe requires additional measure over and above what the law specifies.
Click to expand...
Yes true but surely complieing with the law is a good start!!!! I do agree
that it is good to have some reserve of towing capacity much better to have something that will tow 3 tons and only need 2 however the most important things is common sense and experiance and thinking about what is going on when doing most things and towing is no exeption........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top