Towing with an estate car, advice please

M

mooniemoo

Active Member
Joined
27 April 2009
Messages
37
Visit site
I have a Kia Sorento to tow my Rice type trailer with 1 Connie and 1 Dartmoor. However due to a change in job I won't be taking them out as much, it seems crazy to keep a 4x4 on the road just for me to tow a handful of times. I'm thinking of switching to an estate, can you tow with an estate car? and which one has anyone found good? Won't be a Forrester as I think the costs would be as high as the Kia.
Thanks!
 
As much as I loved my Legacy, it costs about the same to run as a 4x4! You will only ever be able to take one of your ponies at a time, it may be worth getting a smaller pony trailer as (going on my experience) the old rice's can be heavy. I can't advise on actual cars as I only ever towed with a Subaru, but this site is pretty good.
 
jhoward said:
only if you really dont value the life of your horses, yourself or other members of the public.
Click to expand...
JH it is possible, I have done it - although like the OP I have ponies which are lighter than horses, also you can have a smaller trailer which saves on weight as well. Believe me I am incredibly paranoid about my 2 and would never have used the estate if I didn't think it was safe.
 
jhoward, really? I have seen quite a few recently, thats what made me think about it. Will look into further.
Thanks for replies
 
jhoward said:
only if you really dont value the life of your horses, yourself or other members of the public.
Click to expand...

Ok, so the above might come across as harsh, but it is quite true.
There are estates that will pull a trailer with horses/ponies in, there are NOT estates that will do this legally (and so safely).
The kia sorrento is a fab 4x4, I would stick with it tbh.
 
Even my local trailer outlet said some estates were fine.The Kia is a good 4x4 but don't ever buy a 05 XSE as you have to change all 4 tyres at once even if one goes from a puncture just after you had a new set fitted! I just can't warrant such a fuel bill to compete a few times a year. Will look at small boxes aswell.
sanolly, that website is very good, thanks
 
Sanolly theres more to it, a car of anytype is not designed to be pulling that amopunt of weight, more to the point a horse in a trailer is MOVEABLE weight, cars just do not have the stability to pull them safely, nor the power to get them out of trouble if needed.
 
You cannot generalise that an estate car will tow a trailer - it all comes down to the weight of the car and the trailer - roughly speaking - though there are those on here that believe they are experts in this - the calculation is that the car must weigh more than the laden trailer.

So - to generalise that an estate car will tow a trailer is rubbish - a volvo pulling two tiny ponies in a small lightweight trailer - yes - another combination er no no no no no!

It is illegal and MAY invalidate your insurance - so check it out properly.
 
As above, BUT.... the law for towing now says the following.

Each trailer has a rated maximum weight... it is on the drawbar label.
This weight must match the capability of the tow car. It is nothing to do with whether you are towing a lightweight within your car's limit..... it is all to do with the rated weight of the trailer.

Be very careful as VOSA have the power to stop you and prevent you from travelling further.

A lot of regulatiuons have changed in the last 2 or 3 years without most people being aware of the changes. The Police have not a clue but VOSA certainly have.!!!!!
 
ThePony said:
Ok, so the above might come across as harsh, but it is quite true.
There are estates that will pull a trailer with horses/ponies in, there are NOT estates that will do this legally (and so safely).
The kia sorrento is a fab 4x4, I would stick with it tbh.
Click to expand...

This is not true.

Maximum towing weight of dads 406 = 1500
Maximum Gross weight of cheval liberate single trailer = 1400
1400<1500

85% kerb weight of dads 406 = 1147kg
Unleaden weight of cheval liberate single trailer = 655kg
Pony = 330kg

1147 > 985

So whats the problem?
 
Last edited:
RDO said:
This is not true.

Maximum towing weight of dads 406 = 1500
Maximum Gross weight of cheval liberate single trailer = 1400
1400<1500

85% kerb weight of dads 406 = 1147kg
Unleaden weight of cheval liberate single trailer = 655kg
Pony = 330kg

1147 > 985

So whats the problem?
Click to expand...

Please read the posts you are criticising. It has already been said that there are combinations that will work - your trailer is extremely light - actually I believe it is the lightest or one of the lightest on the market and you have a very small pony. What is being said above is that you cannot GENERALISE with estate car combinations - you MUST do you calculations properly.

You have done your calculations properly - well done. Gold star.
 
wytsend said:
As above, BUT.... the law for towing now says the following.

Each trailer has a rated maximum weight... it is on the drawbar label.
This weight must match the capability of the tow car. It is nothing to do with whether you are towing a lightweight within your car's limit..... it is all to do with the rated weight of the trailer.

Be very careful as VOSA have the power to stop you and prevent you from travelling further.

A lot of regulatiuons have changed in the last 2 or 3 years without most people being aware of the changes. The Police have not a clue but VOSA certainly have.!!!!!
Click to expand...

show me a link to the law.... because you are wrong ...
 
Um... actually, there is an estate you can tow with... A6 Allroad...

*crawls back under rock*
 
I did not say a trailer was plated... as in HGV .. I merely said each trailer has a plate on the drawbar showing its maximum gross weight. There is a huge difference.

Break the current regulations at your peril !
 
The first thing to do would be find out the legal towing weight of your car, then add up the weight of your trailer, the combined weight of the horses also adding a little extra for all the equipment. I've got a 2.0 Freelander and tow a 505. I can only legally tow my horse in it, he's an arab of approx 400kg, so I would say towing 2 with an estate car would be a little risky. Good luck.
 
jhoward said:
Sanolly theres more to it, a car of anytype is not designed to be pulling that amopunt of weight, more to the point a horse in a trailer is MOVEABLE weight, cars just do not have the stability to pull them safely, nor the power to get them out of trouble if needed.
Click to expand...

My Mercedes S Class 320 has a 3.2 litre diesel engine, limited slip differential and self levelling suspension and weighs 2100kg. It tows my 17.2 very easily indeed. I actually prefered towing with it than with my Jeep Grand Cherokee, which was so over-powered for the job it often felt jerky. The S class does everything more smoothly. I also had to stop very quickly in an emergency and it coped beautifully, with no snaking.

I did however have my trailer downrated so that I could tow legally with it.

Even my E class tows perfectly well and never struggles, for example, with accelerating uphill when towing. People used to tow all the time with cars. The legislation was based on European conditions where most people tow smaller trailers, often only single horse, hence were not affected by the requirements. The UK Government, if it had been on the ball, should have negotiated an opt out for the UK due to different market conditions here.
 
jhoward said:
Sanolly theres more to it, a car of anytype is not designed to be pulling that amopunt of weight, more to the point a horse in a trailer is MOVEABLE weight, cars just do not have the stability to pull them safely, nor the power to get them out of trouble if needed.
Click to expand...

Rubbish - you can't generalise like that. A car is likely to be more stable due to it's lower centre of gravity. As for power - there are some pretty meaty engines out there, far more powerful than the diesel fitted to my Defender which you would probably categorise as absolutely fine for towing.
 
S class 320 CDI is a saloon car, btw. I'm also thinking an S500 wouldn't have much trouble towing either! And if you fit the right tyres, they're not too bad of road too. For me, before I had a horsebox, it was just a much more practical combination of being able to get around 40mpg when motorway driving and tow my horse legally in a trailer when needed. The Jeep towed well but when not towing got about 27 mpg. When towing, the S class gets about 23 mpg and the Jeep would get about 19.
 
wytsend said:
I did not say a trailer was plated... as in HGV .. I merely said each trailer has a plate on the drawbar showing its maximum gross weight. There is a huge difference.

Break the current regulations at your peril !
Click to expand...
WHAT regulations ?????? where is this law writen down a link? would be usefull ..
and have you any cases of people being done for this mythical law !!!!!???????as I have spent some time looking at trailer law and spent a fair amount of time on the phone to the dept for transport who look after road traffic law and C&U rules they are the law, its not what a vosa man or police man thinks ... in the end its what the law is and up to a court of law...
 
jhoward said:
Sanolly theres more to it, a car of anytype is not designed to be pulling that amopunt of weight, more to the point a horse in a trailer is MOVEABLE weight, cars just do not have the stability to pull them safely, nor the power to get them out of trouble if needed.
Click to expand...
Um then a 4x4 isnt either !!!! as they are desighned to cross rough terrain !!!!! how many artic lorrys are all wheel drive ??? there is no reason a car or van shouldent tow as long as you stick to the manufactures recomeded weights, the only problem is they dont have a big enough rating to tow a big loaded horse trailer
so for most people a 4x4 is the only option...
 
Okies, been trying to find a definitive answer on the matter of legal towing capacities for a couple of days now (and read the whole of Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 SI 1078/1986 in the process.

My (not uniformed) understanding is this at the moment. A vehicle and trailer must not exceed the MTW (Maximum train weight) of the towing vehicle. The MTW is found on the VIN plate. The MTW of the combination is found by adding the MGW (maximum gross weight) or MAM (Maximum authorised mass) of the towing vehicle with the weight of the trailer. NOWHERE in the legislation or in any of the links provided on this forum can I find a reference to using the MAM or MGW of a trailer in this calculation only the weight.
I interpret that as meaning the actual weight and not the MAM or MGW. My reasoning for this interpretation is throughout the relevant statutory provisions MGW is referred to consistently when referring to the towing vehicle however ommitted when referring to the trailer.

If a vehicle is not plated with a MTW then the manufacturer has not authorised the vehicle to tow a trailer.

(PS. DL restirctions are irrelevant to me as I hold a C+E licence and I've studied law therefore well practiced at reading primary and secondary legislation and applying the rules of statuory interpretation)

However I do stand to be corrected if anyone at all can provide me with some legal authority to say differently. By that I mean the relevent law, Act or SI number including the relevent section/subsection or any case law. I don't need the full case as I have access to Lexis/Westlaw and can get them online.

Cheer in advance!!!
 
QR - Quite simply - Don't.

I was in a trailer accident and the only thing that stopped the car flipping with the trailer was the weight of the vehicle. I would not use an estate to tow in a million years (to be fair I wouldn't use a trailer in a million years) and cringe whenever I see somebody towing with one, especially down the motorway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top