Towpaths, Bridleway and access creation

[Fenris]

At the SHG ( http://the-shg.org/ ) we don't just get RSPCA issues. Calls from people who either can't find somewhere safe to ride or who have come into varying degrees of 'conflict' with traffic are increasing. Yes, I know horse riders have every right to be on the public highway, but claiming rights from a hospital bed or coffin isn't a winning situation!

Part of what we do is look for resolutions to conflicts and there is a real need for safe riding areas. Looking around we realised that some canal towpaths are also bridleways. Some that are not are totally unsuitable - you wouldn't want to be riding a horse over an aqueduct for instance! Nevertheless, there appears to be scope for the canal-bridlepath network to be safely extended.

The cyclists have been far more organised than horse riders. http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/files/file_public/towpathsbrf.pdf

In some areas people have used towpaths for years when the canals were unused. In those areas proof of 20 years plus unopposed usage could mean that public paths have already been created. Same for disused railway lines. Where they have been used for the required time period and then railway societies take them over it might be that they would have to provide for horse riders (safely!)

Now that the charity Canal and River Trust (CaRT) has take over the running and care of the canals from British Waterways it might be a good time to talk to them in terms of creating or re-instating bridleways in some areas.

Yes there would need to be restrictions. Maybe even use for part of the year only. And of course a code of conduct to prevent conflict with other users.

Is there any support here for such a campaign? Who would be best to run it and negotiate with CaRT? BHS? (don't all swear at once!)

If there isn't any support does anyone have any ideas for extending safe riding areas? Conflict with other road users is only going to increase with increasing population and while most of it is just irritation and a few harsh words even that makes what should be enjoyable utterly miserable.

 

[hnmisty]

CaRT and local council would be my thought. Also, discussions with local landowners. Our neighbour has put a permissive bridleway through one of his fields. He's done it in conjunction with the local bridleways group, so get in touch with them too.

The more off road, the better!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Here in Devon we've got the longest length of roadwork in the country apparently!

Because of the recent damage caused by floodwater, there was talk on our local BBC radio that because of the sheer cost of repairs involved, it might be appropriate for some of these roads to be de-classified and become tracks (yipppeeee shouts all the horse riders at the thought of hooning down nice little lanes that are now tarmac'd over but might not be - with any luck - in the future )

However: common sense NEVER ever prevails. There's a tiny little lane near us, only one farm along it, could be easily de-classified and made into a multi-use ROW, BUT no, last autumn the council in their wisdom re-tarmacced it. Now its all washed away - again! WTF????

So the rule of thumb is to NEVER expect the common-sense decision to be taken, i.e. to always spend money on the thing that needs it the least! While there are main roads with very dangerous pot-holes in, it is deemed desirous to re-surface a piddly little lane that no-one uses!!!

Also......... we've been trying to get a local lane designated as a ROW for at least five years now. The local Rights of Way dept at County Hall are as useless as a nun-in-a-punch-up. AND....... sorry to have to say it, and no offence intended to anyone on here, but the BHS frankly have been way behind other groups like the Ramblers (who ALWAYS get what they want, simply because they're persistent), and Cycling Groups - who've had millions of pounds spent on getting them off the road.

 

[tinap]

I was told that the BHS are working with the canal & river trust regarding opening towpaths to riders. I contacted the CaRT asking about our local canal & they asked me to forward on my email to the BHS & confirmed they are working together. I did forward it on in the middle of December but am yet to get a reply x

 

[Fenris]

I was told that the BHS are working with the canal & river trust regarding opening towpaths to riders. I contacted the CaRT asking about our local canal & they asked me to forward on my email to the BHS & confirmed they are working together. I did forward it on in the middle of December but am yet to get a reply x

Excellent news that they are talking but worrying that they fail to respond to e-mails.

Maybe their talking is a story for H&H to cover?

 

[Spook]

In Scotland beware of the Councils intentions. In some circumstances they are trying to restrict some "Core Paths" to exclude riders..... allowing cyclists, walkers and dog walkers only.

 

[Fenris]

Also......... we've been trying to get a local lane designated as a ROW for at least five years now. The local Rights of Way dept at County Hall are as useless as a nun-in-a-punch-up. AND....... sorry to have to say it, and no offence intended to anyone on here, but the BHS frankly have been way behind other groups like the Ramblers (who ALWAYS get what they want, simply because they're persistent), and Cycling Groups - who've had millions of pounds spent on getting them off the road.

It would be in CaRT's interests financially to accept any claims of creation by use of bridleways along the towpaths.

When CaRT came into being it faced a funding gap which will only get worse and which, as a charity, it is supposed to fill by fundraising.

According to this http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/publicrightsofwayadvice_tcm6-13878.pdf local authorities are responsible for maintaining bridleways and other paths.

That means bridleways would take the financial responsibility for repairing and maintaining the towpath off an already cash strapped organisation.

There is a lot for both sides to gain if proper negotiations take place.

 

[Yertis]

The BHS Bridleways Officers that you contact are all volunteers, they also have to try to raise money to cover the costs of travelling to look at blocked ROW and to meet people who are complaining. Instead of complaining about the BHS how about joining and volunteering as an Access Assistant? you will get training and assistance in your aims and be in contact/get help from other volunteers in your area.
With reference to Devon, there are a lot of areas not covered by volunteers, they get fed up with people complaining who do not want to put in any effort themselves and think 'someone else' should solve all their problems. The staff at Devon County Hall are some of the most helpful you will come across, but again, don't go to them to complain, if you think a route should be a right of way investigate and fill in the claim forms, mark the maps and return to County Hall. If you don't know how, join the BHS, volunteer and get trained!!
I spent several years as an Access Assistant, then District Officer in Devon until I too got sick of people who will not try to help themselves, but expect an unpaid person to give up half a day to travel and look at their complaint and several hours completing forms for them.
Rant over lol!!

 

[OWLIE185]

If more horse riders joined the BHS then the BHS would represent a greater number of horse riders and would also have a larger income to pay for the work that they do.
Please also be aware that every county has a local BHS group and within that group there is a volunteer bridleway/access officer, road safety officer and a welfare officer. Where local issues are concerned you should contact your local BHS volunteer BHS Access/Bridleway officer who will be only to pleased to assist you.
However if you have E-mailed the BHS and not received the courtesy of an acknowledgement and/or a reply then please provide me with details including date and time of your E-mail and subject title and I will get it investigated. My E-mail address is peter.natt@btinternet.com

 

[tinap]

Excellent news that they are talking but worrying that they fail to respond to e-mails.

Maybe their talking is a story for H&H to cover?

Interestingly, I have just received a reply this afternoon! They are wanting more information about the towpath, so at least it's a start x

 

[Fenris]

Interestingly, I have just received a reply this afternoon! They are wanting more information about the towpath, so at least it's a start x

Tee Hee! Perhaps they are reading this thread?

 

[Fenris]

One more thing you should all be aware of. If CaRT seriously consider opening part of the towpath network to horse riders they will probably hold a consultation before doing anything. That means everyone needs to be prepared to take part and present their views.

Remember that the Canals are inhabited by boaters who will need to be convinced that they will gain not lose.

Time to cosy up to boat people?

 

[ester]

I am struggling to imagine riding on a towpath as enjoyable...boats, cyclists and grumpy fishermen and a bloody great expanse of water next to you just waiting for you to land in!

 

[Gloi]

I sneak onto the towpath near us when it's close season for fishing. I don't have problems with the actual path on small, sensible beast but the bridges are too low for anything over 14.2 or so to go under without having to dismount. There is a tendency for ducks to fly up under the horses' nose which once, a long time ago caused my friend's pony to spook and she fell off, causing it to spook at her falling off and jump in the canal. Fortunately it got out easily, but there are now a lot of bits where there are metal edgings and a horse would have to go along the canal past those bits before it could get out.

 

[RunToEarth]

I do know that a local rambling club on the Chesterfield Canal near Clayworth are actively campaigning for the towpaths not to be open to horses and to be restricted for cyclists.

I think old towpaths do make a sensible alternative to public highways, and also bridleways during wet periods of the year - it is a shame that everyone wants to enjoy the countryside but certain users feel they have more right than another.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

One option to avoid conflict might be what they do on some beaches and also the river path near where I used to live in Wiltshire and restrict horse access to before 10 or 11 am in the BST summer clock hours but allow them anytime in the winter. That way, there was much less likelihood of any conflict with other users and the other users if they didn't want to meet horses could use it outside those hours in summer.

The comment re Scotland was interesting, since some of the core paths are along private routes which are private properties vehicular accesses and also their access with their own horses, would like to see them try to justify a ban on horses on those core routes....it would also make the much lauded Scottish access act a very discriminatory one when applied in practice as the act gives horse riders the same access rights as walkers and cyclists - seems like all are equal but some are more equal than others. Core paths in particular should only be created where they can be made suitable for all classes of users, if they aren't prepared to do this then they should not designate them as core.

 

[flaxen tail]

Here in South Glos ,next door to Bristol we have a Mr John Grimshaw formally Sustrans together with our council South Glos in their opening planning application statement the Council are determined to upgrade our towpath bridlepath ,we thought great untill we learnt they had given them selves planning with John Grimshaw stating the finish was to bitmac,uproar broke out.this planning application was put in last winter the coldest for over 50 years so not many people saw the two yes just two public planning notices put up ,now a year on Dec 23 rd another planning application for our be beautiful woodland trail to have a bitmac finish funny this council or Bristol Council has never shown any interest in up grading our bridlepath until the west country guru of the cycling world appears then everything is given over to the cyclist against your heath and safety for the walkers runners the elderly the horse riders, no public notices were posted whatsoever for this second application, This bridle path is a river towpath and was flooded severly but the gravel finish stood up very well proving that gravel if put down properly is the ideal finish for everyone with one exception, the high speed lycra brigade who seem to think we must all jump out of the way and if you don,t watch out for the tirade of abuse .our council seems hell bent on giving over our bridle path and woodland walks by stealth methods to both mountain and the speed cyclist and never mind about any other users rights this is shown by the rights of way dept of our council non comments by the way even the leisure cyclist are against this bitmac finish as they bring their youngsters on the bridle path for its slow easy going pace and to be able to see the wildlife etc so we are not to keen to trust our council on looking out for our interest your ok if you ride on two wheels you can ride in nature reserves any public footpaths you dont even need to comply with the law to have a bell,I rode a cycle for 54 years and understood that this was unlawful . posted by a grumpy 71year old horse riding husband of flaxen tail

 

[Honey08]

We have a bridleway that has gone along a tiny section of canal towpath for years. We're not sure whether it was an actual bridleway or an allowed path because it joins two sections of a bridleway. There is a mounting block at the start of the canalpath and a corral to put horses in. It does go past a loch, so there is a massive drop and I would only ride it on a sensible horse. When The Canals and rivers people took over from British Waterways they started putting a small marquee at the side of the path, which flapped in the wind. I went down on foot to speak to the people there - they were trying to get support for the Canals trust. When I pointed out that the tent was putting people on horseback that used the path in great danger, as if a horse spooked it and its rider could end up in the canal. They were most unsympathetic and said horses shouldn't be on canals. I ended up taking their names to follow things up, and the tent suddenly stopped being put there. Anyway, long winded way of saying that I don't think they're that impressed with horses on the canal, so I wouldn't hold your breath!

 

[undergroundoli]

Shouldn't it be easier to get tow paths made into bridal paths because they used to have tow horses on em?

 

[BHS_official]

We’d like to offer our apologies for the delay in responding yesterday to tinap’s email (Fenris, we had seen the thread around the same time of sending so can promise it was coincidence!). Also, a big thank you for the positive comments on this thread about our good work on access and the need for help if we’re going to achieve more.

The BHS has represented the interests of equestrians nationally with British Waterways and what is now The Canal and Rivers Trust (CRT) for more than 10 years. We have a good partnership, as a result of which there is an agreement whereby if a towpath is suitable and safe for (mounted) equestrian access, and would provide a key link between two bridleways or a safe off-road route to additional equestrian legal off-road access, then CRT and the BHS will consider a proposal for such access. The Horse Boating Society also represent the interests of horse drawn boaters, which is still a thriving tourism practice on parts of the network.

It's important for anyone reading this who may not be familiar with the variety of canal towpaths across Britain to note that the majority of towpaths would be dangerous for horse riders even if access was granted by the CRT or landowner. The historical evolution of the canal network has resulted in the narrowing of towpaths (making it very difficult for horses to turn around if they come across an obstacle) and the removal of horse routes over bridges - with the majority of existing bridges too low for horses to pass under, this means they would come to a dead end. Lastly, there has also been the removal of the slipways on hard towpath edges, which could have been used as access points in and out of the water to assist a horse if it fell in. There are some canal towpaths, however, which may be suitable – some which may require funding to adapt, and some which simply would be too expensive to adapt to a safe standard for all towpath users to make accessible for equestrians.

Over the past two years, we’ve been working with BHS members and volunteers to identify key pilot areas for potential equestrian access, and we’re pleased to say that work started on our first proposed area at the end of 2013. We’re working positively with CRT on this but it’s not yet at the stage where we can make the location public so please bear with us.

Just as there’s safety in numbers, so there's strength, too! The more members and volunteers we have, the more we can collectively achieve. Full details on each are on www.bhs.org.uk. If anybody reading this has any further comments or questions about access to canal towpaths or feedback on potential towpath routes in their area, please email access@bhs.org.uk with the subject ‘Access to Towpaths’.

 

[Orangehorse]

OP, also get in touch with the Cross Trails Trust. They issue a book on how to get Express Dedication of new rights of way, a method they have been using for several years and have created 80 new bridlepaths.
Interestingly, this method was recently "tested" in a legal case, the the Trails Trust won.

The irony about canal towpaths is that they were originally created for horses! But now we have to compete with anglers and walkers,e tc. and the bridges are very low and in the most part they are privately owned.
Good luck.

 

[Honey08]

Despite there being the tiny stretch of bridleway that goes along our canal path, I wouldn't ride on it if it were opened up as a bridleway right along. It is very dangerous really. You're right that the bridges are really low (we used to be able to fit under them on a 14.2 as kids but tried with a 15.2 and nearly got wedged!). Some kids used to try and jump the "arms" of the lock/loch that stuck out across the path when we were little, which is scary beyond belief really, when you think of what could go wrong. The little stretch we use has been used by horses as a bridleway for over 20 years and links two disused railways that were turned into bridleways (avoids a busy main rd and railway that would have to be crossed otherwise).

Thanks for the reply BHS official.