Track system livery

[Char1995]

Pros and cons of track systems? Are they suited to horses who aren’t necessarily good doers?

 

[SEL]

Depends! Some allow the less good doers onto grass overnight or for a few hours. They do encourage movement and if they have a mix of surfaces then great for hoof care. If all weather surfaces then you've got 24:7 turnout all year.

Cons - some of them are very sterile with not much for the horses to do apart from eat, so they can still get fat. Too many horses and you'll get arguments or resource guarding.

 

[Boulty]

Depends on the track & how it’s set up in all honestly. Some are very much weight loss focused, some are more movement & enrichment focused & some try to balance both.

If you’re looking at doing it yourself then obviously you can set it up to best cater to your horses needs

If you’re looking at a specific track livery you’re best discussing directly with them whether they currently have any poor dooers & how they manage them & deciding if you think that will suit your horse.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Agree with SEL, track systems are great for those horses who absolutely need them for health reasons, other horses not so much.

There are good and bad track livery set ups too. Very expensive to set up an all year round track livery from scratch, but quite simple to have a diy summer only version around a grass field if the horse can tolerate some grazing.

 

[AWinter]

Depends on the yard, some of them are very barren with no trees/hedgerow/anything except small-holed Haynets and a sand pit, not very enriching. We have built a sort of trackish thing at home with lots of hedgerow and different hay stations running through our barn, works well.

I think finding somewhere you can allow your horse more grass/loose hay time is important too.

 

[magicmoments]

My experience I wouldn't do it again with a lower ranking horse. They can get trapped between hay stations, even with hedges between, not much is growing in the winter. My horse didn't need it for weight control so much, I wanted it so she would have 24/7 movement without being knee deep in mud in winter as she got older. They did have a barn, and some stables if needed within which was useful

 

[Identityincrisis]

My vision of track livery is a wooded area with various terrain and surfaces coupled with old grass land and hedges. Not many places offer this

 

[paddy555]

if you are setting up your own track and can control the horses and everything else then maybe. If you are going as a livery then you are totally dependent on the track owner. Probably even more so than at a conventional livery yard as everyone lives together.
That may be good or not.

Some come with their own barefoot trimmers and somewhat rigid ideas. I am thinking of one particular cult method here.

In your earlier post which you deleted you were talking about "grass free" If that includes no trees, hedges and other greenery for enrichment then to my mind that is not good for some horses. All they are going to eat is the hay so the diet is going to be totally dependent upon what is in the hay and whatever hard feed they get.

My experience I wouldn't do it again with a lower ranking horse. They can get trapped between hay stations, even with hedges between, not much is growing in the winter. My horse didn't need it for weight control so much, I wanted it so she would have 24/7 movement without being knee deep in mud in winter as she got older. They did have a barn, and some stables if needed within which was useful

if you are a lower ranking horse and all you can do is be bossed around on a track by higher ranking ones and get whatever hay is left is that any better than a traditional yard. Not necessarily to my mind.

why is your horse not a good doer? a shy horse, one that needs persuading, just a thin type of horse anyway? I think you would need to take the character of the horse into account quite a lot on a track system.

I have seen comments from people with horses on livery track systems where it has gone wrong but then they haven't been checking the horse very regularly. In a stable/field system one is probably dealing with the horse DIY or assisted daily and on full livery usually at week ends or after work several times a week so you know if there are problems.
I think you would need to check out the arrangements very closely. If you have somewhere in mind then no doubt some people on here will be able to recommend it or or otherwise.

 

[Identityincrisis]

I recently saw a post from a track livery operator who said following on from years of offering completely grass free, hay only livery, they had come to realise this brings with it its own problems and they had moved away from that model (I can’t remember who it was) i guess only time and an open mind will tell

 

[SantaVera]

Depends! Some allow the less good doers onto grass overnight or for a few hours. They do encourage movement and if they have a mix of surfaces then great for hoof care. If all weather surfaces then you've got 24:7 turnout all year.

Cons - some of them are very sterile with not much for the horses to do apart from eat, so they can still get fat. Too many horses and you'll get arguments or resource guarding.

Basically this,my concern is that there can be too many horses in too small an area and some may be bullied. I'm not convinced about them walking about much,theres a private track system near me with two horses I only ever see them stood around either at the hay or standing waiting to be fed. They certainly don't walk around the track much. My own move more mooching around on a bareish paddock with a few piles of loose hay here and there.

 

[Miss_Millie]

I recently saw a post from a track livery operator who said following on from years of offering completely grass free, hay only livery, they had come to realise this brings with it its own problems and they had moved away from that model (I can’t remember who it was) i guess only time and an open mind will tell

I'd be interested to read that if you can remember who it was

I like the concept of tracks and there are some wonderful examples on smaller plots with lots of trees, different terrains and enrichment.

I find some of the commercial tracks are too sterile looking, and wonder if eating from tiny holed haynets all of the time might cause its own set of problems.

 

[Fieldlife]

Something like what Surrey Hills Livery offers looks great. Large grass track. Lots of space and terrain and access to some grass.

I love the track concept, but I use it to enable me to grow more grass and keep it from being eaten too short and to encourage movement.

I have a perimeter track 5 small internal paddocks that I can rotate access too. For me this is best of both worlds - I can protect my grass so isnt eaten too short, allow a decent length of track for a good run around. Allow movement, and track encourages movement, as have to go round it to access field / hay / water / gate / shade etc.

 

[Fieldlife]

I'd be interested to read that if you can remember who it was

I like the concept of tracks and there are some wonderful examples on smaller plots with lots of trees, different terrains and enrichment.

I find some of the commercial tracks are too sterile looking, and wonder if eating from tiny holed haynets all of the time might cause its own set of problems.

Agree, I think there is one thing having a medical / metabolic reason horse cannot tolerate grass, and finding whatever set up gives them a decent amount of movement and enrichment.

But I dont think most horses that are normally healthy, in full work, cannot tolerate eating normal diverse, non stressed, non over grazed, longer, non rye grass.

Most horses IMO want a track that also includes some access to grass as well, all year round.

My horse can tolerate grass, and if I was looking for retirement livery, I'd love some element of tracks, and access to grass and little mud all year round.

 

[Fieldlife]

Basically this,my concern is that there can be too many horses in too small an area and some may be bullied. I'm not convinced about them walking about much,theres a private track system near me with two horses I only ever see them stood around either at the hay or standing waiting to be fed. They certainly don't walk around the track much. My own move more mooching around on a bareish paddock with a few piles of loose hay here and there.

There are guidelines for how much space a track should have. It doesnt sound like the track you describe has been set up properly. The idea would be that the hay is in several places round the track, and not near the water, the shade/ shelter etc. So the horse have to keep walking round the track to access each resource. Planting at one haystation alone doesnt sound ideal.

 

[Tiddlypom]

My summer only equicentral set up is an all grass one on two small connected paddocks. The simple premise of having just one water point instead of the two I had previously (one in each paddock) means that they cover far more ground each day crossing and re crossing from one paddock to the other and back again.

Good for their waist lines and they don’t get bored.

When I used to strip graze the same paddocks in the summer they would gorge the fresh grass then stand around waiting for me to move the fencing again in 12 hours time.

 

[Char1995]

if you are setting up your own track and can control the horses and everything else then maybe. If you are going as a livery then you are totally dependent on the track owner. Probably even more so than at a conventional livery yard as everyone lives together.
That may be good or not.

Some come with their own barefoot trimmers and somewhat rigid ideas. I am thinking of one particular cult method here.

In your earlier post which you deleted you were talking about "grass free" If that includes no trees, hedges and other greenery for enrichment then to my mind that is not good for some horses. All they are going to eat is the hay so the diet is going to be totally dependent upon what is in the hay and whatever hard feed they get.



if you are a lower ranking horse and all you can do is be bossed around on a track by higher ranking ones and get whatever hay is left is that any better than a traditional yard. Not necessarily to my mind.

why is your horse not a good doer? a shy horse, one that needs persuading, just a thin type of horse anyway? I think you would need to take the character of the horse into account quite a lot on a track system.

I have seen comments from people with horses on livery track systems where it has gone wrong but then they haven't been checking the horse very regularly. In a stable/field system one is probably dealing with the horse DIY or assisted daily and on full livery usually at week ends or after work several times a week so you know if there are problems.
I think you would need to check out the arrangements very closely. If you have somewhere in mind then no doubt some people on here will be able to recommend it or or otherwise.

Thank you, at the track I’m thibkin6 about there is plenty of trees and bushes around just not much grass grows on the track. There’s obviously the grass area in the middle which I believe they can go on at times and they do get some time on it during winter when the grass isn’t as rich. I’ve never really seen much about track systems and a little to no grass diet so was curious around this. My horse isn’t necessarily a good doer as he just stresses all his weight off, especially in winter. He’s fine in summer when he’s out 24/7 and puts weight on lovely and is super relaxed but in winter he hates it and just stresses when in the stable so I’m just trying to find an alternative really

 

[JenJ]

I think the phrase 'track livery' has become a bit of a marketing tool for some livery yards who think it's a profitable way to use less grazing and charge a premium to sometimes-desperate horse owners worried about their horse's health following EMS/lami diagnoses. Whilst there are undoubtedly some good livery yards offering a proper track system environment, I suspect there are many others who simply set up a track around a field and then offer what is essentially grass livery that happens to be on a track but package it as being 'track livery' with the increased price tag.

I am on DIY livery and have set up a track around my field for my two EMS Section As. However it is not a 'track system' - it's just a track around the field to get them moving more and restrict their grass intake a little, similar-ish to strip grazing. From my understanding a true track system has multiple different areas of eating, drinking, sleeping, playing, over multiple terrains, ideally with permanent access to an open barn, and usually grass-free. They are labour-intensive too, with hay being fed 4-6 times a day. This is very different to simply sticking up some fencing around a field.

A good livery yard that offers a true track system should suit both good- and bad-doers, as the management should take into account the individual needs of every horse.

 

[Char1995]

I think the phrase 'track livery' has become a bit of a marketing tool for some livery yards who think it's a profitable way to use less grazing and charge a premium to sometimes-desperate horse owners worried about their horse's health following EMS/lami diagnoses. Whilst there are undoubtedly some good livery yards offering a proper track system environment, I suspect there are many others who simply set up a track around a field and then offer what is essentially grass livery that happens to be on a track but package it as being 'track livery' with the increased price tag.

I am on DIY livery and have set up a track around my field for my two EMS Section As. However it is not a 'track system' - it's just a track around the field to get them moving more and restrict their grass intake a little, similar-ish to strip grazing. From my understanding a true track system has multiple different areas of eating, drinking, sleeping, playing, over multiple terrains, ideally with permanent access to an open barn, and usually grass-free. They are labour-intensive too, with hay being fed 4-6 times a day. This is very different to simply sticking up some fencing around a field.

A good livery yard that offers a true track system should suit both good- and bad-doers, as the management should take into account the individual needs of every horse.

The track I’ve been looking at is about 1000km and offers many feeding stations, enrichment such at logs, mounds, scratching posts etc. From what I’ve seen there’s a large open barn and multiple shelters. Lots of trees/bushes etc surrounding the track, it’s also built on a bit of a hill I believe

 

[paddy555]

in winter he hates it and just stresses when in the stable so I’m just trying to find an alternative really

I too have a very stressy horse, doesn't lose weight but weaves and mouths/yawns in stress even with just a few minutes stabled. I solved the problem very easily by leaving his stable door open and letting him have a small yard outside. (obviously that depends on finding somewhere suitable)
That completely solves his problem. He doesn't stand outside all night and many mornings I go out to find a completely dry rug as he has stood in all night but he has his freedom which removes the stress.
You can do this sort of arrangement with a stable, a shelter, run in or whatever is available.

 

[Char1995]

I too have a very stressy horse, doesn't lose weight but weaves and mouths/yawns in stress even with just a few minutes stabled. I solved the problem very easily by leaving his stable door open and letting him have a small yard outside. (obviously that depends on finding somewhere suitable)
That completely solves his problem. He doesn't stand outside all night and many mornings I go out to find a completely dry rug as he has stood in all night but he has his freedom which removes the stress.
You can do this sort of arrangement with a stable, a shelter, run in or whatever is available.

I’m glad you found something which works for your horse, without having my own place I feel as though somewhere with the ability to do this would be really hard to find. The track I’ve seen in the area does have a large barn which they can access 24/7 as well as other shelters

 

[Boulty]

From what you’ve said if the reason your horse loses weight is stress related when stabled then the setup you’ve described sounds like it could work well for him and sounds like a really well thought out one. Worth a look if you haven’t already and definitely discuss your concerns re keeping weight on so you can hopefully make a plan with your yard owner.

 

[Char1995]

From what you’ve said if the reason your horse loses weight is stress related when stabled then the setup you’ve described sounds like it could work well for him and sounds like a really well thought out one. Worth a look if you haven’t already and definitely discuss your concerns re keeping weight on so you can hopefully make a plan with your yard owner.

I believe that’s exactly why he tends to lose weight as it only seems to be during autumn and winter months when he’s stabled. He’s a really stressy horse so anything I can do to reduce his stress is worth it. He’s absolutely fine in summer on 24/7 turnout which is why I feel as though a track system may be better suited to him just for the fact he’s out and has freedom to be in a barn/under shelter or outside. he hates to be stuck in a stable and with how last winter went, it’s likely this winter the turnout at my yard isn’t going to be nearly as good and I know he won’t cope being in a stable more. The only thing what worries me with tracks is the lack of grass, however there is other forage such as trees, bushes, different plants and plenty of hay

 

[JenJ]

I believe that’s exactly why he tends to lose weight as it only seems to be during autumn and winter months when he’s stabled. He’s a really stressy horse so anything I can do to reduce his stress is worth it. He’s absolutely fine in summer on 24/7 turnout which is why I feel as though a track system may be better suited to him just for the fact he’s out and has freedom to be in a barn/under shelter or outside. he hates to be stuck in a stable and with how last winter went, it’s likely this winter the turnout at my yard isn’t going to be nearly as good and I know he won’t cope being in a stable more. The only thing what worries me with tracks is the lack of grass, however there is other forage such as trees, bushes, different plants and plenty of hay

Admittedly I'm coming at this from an EMS perspective, but the lack of grass wouldn't worry me at all - they will (in any good set-up, which it sounds like you've found) be well-supplemented with plenty of hay/alternative forage to compensate for the lack of grass.

 

[Char1995]

Admittedly I'm coming at this from an EMS perspective, but the lack of grass wouldn't worry me at all - they will (in any good set-up, which it sounds like you've found) be well-supplemented with plenty of hay/alternative forage to compensate for the lack of grass.

Thank you, that reassures me. It does seem like a great set up which really looks at the horses welfare

 

[Fieldlife]

Admittedly I'm coming at this from an EMS perspective, but the lack of grass wouldn't worry me at all - they will (in any good set-up, which it sounds like you've found) be well-supplemented with plenty of hay/alternative forage to compensate for the lack of grass.

Horses strongly prefer grass though. If there’s not a medical reason, I think it’s a bit mean to remove all grass from a horse’s diet unless it’s unavoidable eg v hot dry countries

 

[Jojo2go]

Horses strongly prefer grass though. If there’s not a medical reason, I think it’s a bit mean to remove all grass from a horse’s diet unless it’s unavoidable eg v hot dry countries

Hay is grasses normally, so they're not being deprived of grass. Where I live we're lucky if there's any grazing between November and April due to snow. They live just fine on hay and other substitutes just fine. My 30 YO mare isn't a freak, she hates being turned out for much more than a couple of hours a day and is doing pretty good.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I have set up my own small track for Faran in my field. It’s all grass and only for summer to manage his weight and keep him moving but it’s working well and I can control what he’s getting much better than strip grazing did last year!

If I was going to open a livery yard then it would be a track livery yard with all weather and grass areas. If I had my own land even just enough for a couple of my own I would without a doubt make a track with different surfaces and areas I could close and open to change it like I have with his grass track.

 

[dougpeg]

Horse Haven in Wales is a fantastic example of a track system. It has it all. So much space and enrichment for them. I think any horse would thrive there.

 

[I'm Dun]

Theres one one the way to milton keynes that is awful. The land floods, so its incredibly wet and muddy, the place was a tip when it was a DIY yard and not much has changed from what I can see sadly.