traffiic and horses

sad bit is that it may not be a horse round that blind bend but a child, a mother with a push chair a disable carriage or even a workman checking the signs It is a testament to the awful drivers on the roads that they are oblivious of any thing that may happen and it could cost lives even their own and leave mourning families all over the place. Everyone that hurts someone with a car should be prosecuted and it be seen that they will spend time inside unless there are very mitigating circumstances. A car is after all a lethal weapon and drivers should take care with it. And yes I am a driver have been for over 40 years but I hope I am a careful one, I hope I show consideration for other road users and I hope I allow enough reduction in speed and distance to be able to stop should something happen suddenly.
It is a pet hate of mine that children are deemed safer taken to school in a car rather than walk for fear a boogey man may get them they are thousands of times more likely to be killed or injured in a car than they are to face a stranger danger even to get a bit of a scare
 
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All it would take for me to get to some off-road hacking is several hundred metres along what is unfortunately a rat-run. I don't try it anymore. The bends are blind, there are no verges, and the drivers are psychotic. At the moment, until the new subdivision is finished, which will include some paths away from the road, I have to box to hack.

I think the problem is not limited to horses on country roads. I think cyclists and pedestrians are also in danger. Almost all of the "country roads" around here have no verges, are very bendy, and are highly populated with commuters going 60 "because it's national speed limit", regardless of conditions. Traffic is slightly less outside of rush hours, but still too heavy, and even faster. However, there is no alternative for a cyclist or pedestrian to get from A to B, other than to walk along the edge of such a road. I think it unrealistic to expect drivers to change en masse. More infrastructure is needed for non-motorised transport.
 
pinkypug1 said:
Probably be shot down but.... I don't agree with horses being on busy roads!! Off road hacking and hacks on very quiet roads alway in hi viz yes, but a flight animal with its own mind and ability to be unpredictable should not be ridden around busy traffic, lorries etc in my opinion is asking for trouble!! If I want to hack to the beach I have to hack along a 1 mile section of A road but if I do decide to go to the beach (rarity) I set off at 6am on a Sunday morning so as not to encounter much traffic or be a nuisance to vehicle driving road users!! Roads are just too dangerous for me to risk unfortunately, so I feel we need to adapt when and where we ride as the majority of road users will never change their way of driving for horses!!!!
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Do lorries only drive on busy roads? What are you supposed to do if you live somewhere without off road hacking/access to school or fields? If you set off at 6am I assume you only ride out in the summer time otherwise it would be dark?

Maybe road users shouldn't slow down for horses.........what about the people leading/riding them- should traffic also not slow down for people then?
 
We do ride on roads all be it not usually A roads, it is necessary to get to off road hacks. The worst drivers, we find, are those who have moved to live a 'country' life, but do not like the things that go with it, such as dog walkers, horses, children etc, all walking at the side of the road, as pavements are few and far between. We do find that sisters large Draught horse, decked out in Hi-Viz tends to remind them to pass wide and slow :) which is odd to us as she is the steadiest thing on four legs, except perhaps a table!! :D
 
Cortez said:
But WHY must they be more careful? Perhaps it is time to realise that the average modern car driver has no more idea or thought about horses than he/she has about the man in the moon? And perhaps, with regret, it is time to realise that the day of the horse as king of the road is over? I gave up the fight 20 years ago and no longer attempt to ride my horses down the road: too dangerous, too nerve racking, and not fun any more.
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I agree.
 
Horse riding is a recreational activity done by a minority. The average driver is travelling by necessity and needs to get to work, to appointments etc. It is hardly likely that they decided to take their car on a hack.

Expecting every single car driver, trying to get from a to be within a certain time frame, to slow down completely because you have decided to take your hobby out onto the road is not exactly reasonable.

Conversely, there are drivers who are totally reckless and dangerous. There SHOULD be less aggression on the roads, there SHOULD be respect of speed limits and other road users.

Do I understand why there isn't; absolutely.
 
^^ that's hardly an excuse for their bad manners. If they left earlier to allow for any problems on the way it wouldn't matter.

Not to mention they then wouldn't need to exceed the speed limit. And they wouldn't be driving without due care and attention.

And like other people have said. We have just as much right to be on the road as a car does.

I wouldn't except 'I was going to be late for work' as a valid excuse to be hit. Or in fact any excuse.
 
I don't agree that it isn't reasonable to expect cars to slow down because riding is recreational, many cycle for recreational purposes and many tourists drive around our roads as well as those off for a spot of shopping, not everyone is 'at work' while driving; and even if they are, then if they are unwilling to slow down for a couple of seconds to pass then I think it's incredibly sad. I don't think that you should be inconveniencing anyone just because you can, but even recreational riding has many benefits mentally and physically and shouldn't be written off as a worthless activity that is less important imo.

I do ride on A roads - I have to in order to access the bridleways, and actually find it is safer than the country roads, there are clear views with no blind bends, traffic can give a wide berth more easily and there are wide verges to get on in places.

I have taken the decision however to make this my last horse, roads are getting worse, and that isn't going to change any time soon and I would feel terrible if I lost a horse on the road and unless we relocate to somewhere in the middle of nowhere then off road hacking (although I do have some) isn't a possibility.
 
Leviathan said:
The comment. Fails SHORT to appreciate most young horses are unpredictable when the first start out on the rd. So how in gods name can you make them more "Bombproof" unless you take them out?

Riders can help themselves and help their horses by wearing caution young horse tabard, giving drivers warning the horse is unsure of the road experience.

Most drivers who fly round these country lanes use it as cut through and have no thought of anything else but being in their bubble car with their music on.
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That is your prerogative. I personally have read too many stories on here and witnessed too many idiots on the road to risk it more than rarely.

Quite simply I am not willing to risk myself or my horse by regularly riding on the roads, no amount of hi viz or sensible horses protect you when an accident like tobianos happens, whether drivers are using them as a cut through or not is rather beside the point - I am not about to put myself and my horses in that type of danger just to exercise my right to ride on the road, it isn't worth it.
 
I am not excusing speeding or reckless driving, as I said people should drive with more care.

But I'm certainly not about to leave earlier than necessary and add 15 min to my travel time on the off chance I meet a horse along the way.

And I do ride on the road, I just take extra precaution to stay out of the way and don't expect people to slow down. I see it asy responsibility. Obviously every precaution in the world can't prevent accidents from occurring. I just feel the unapologetic attitude that our horses should cause other people inconvenience gives us riders a bad name.
 
It is a fair point that you shouldn't have to leave late in case you meet a horse, but I meant any road situation. If there were a RTA you'd still be stuck.

I didn't mean it to sound like I expect that though, as I said in an earlier post I avoid busy times and am aalways courteous.

Touch wood so far I've never had a bad experience. A friend I know has had a fair few, but when I went out with her she never acknowledged once- I took that as more of an incentive to keep being polite!
 
The problem is that motorists think the road belongs to them only - pedestrians motor bike and push bike riders, horse riders etc all have access to the road and special consideration needs to be given to them by motorists.

I have to say I rarely ride on the road, but today myself my daughter and my son went out for a short ride. Every car and motor bile rider slowed for us and gave lots of room. i waved a thankyou to each one.
 
But if you say people cannot ride on the road horse-riding would become a pastime only for the very rich, who could afford their own arena or buy a house with instant off-road hacking. There are no bridleways at all near me, only fairly busy roads, and small roads which are almost worse to ride on because theres no room. So I ride on the roads.
But also, people walk on the roads, and cycle. All are vulnerable, and the message should be got across to drivers "you are not the only ones allowed on the road- show respect for others".
By the way, those of you in the know about the law- if a horse and rider/leader are on the road legally obeying all laws, DO they have a right-of-way over car drivers, ie by LAW a car has to give way to a horse and wait until it is safe to pass? I always thought that horses took precedence, from what I was told years ago.....
 
Cortez said:
But WHY must they be more careful? Perhaps it is time to realise that the average modern car driver has no more idea or thought about horses than he/she has about the man in the moon? And perhaps, with regret, it is time to realise that the day of the horse as king of the road is over? I gave up the fight 20 years ago and no longer attempt to ride my horses down the road: too dangerous, too nerve racking, and not fun any more.
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Well actually its in the Highway Code and is part of the THINK! Campaign so motorists do actually have to know about it. I had a question on it in my theory test and I even had a picture with horses in it asking what do I do.

So that is why they should be more careful... It's the rules!
 
stormox said:
But if you say people cannot ride on the road horse-riding would become a pastime only for the very rich, who could afford their own arena or buy a house with instant off-road hacking. There are no bridleways at all near me, only fairly busy roads, and small roads which are almost worse to ride on because theres no room. So I ride on the roads.
But also, people walk on the roads, and cycle. All are vulnerable, and the message should be got across to drivers "you are not the only ones allowed on the road- show respect for others".
By the way, those of you in the know about the law- if a horse and rider/leader are on the road legally obeying all laws, DO they have a right-of-way over car drivers, ie by LAW a car has to give way to a horse and wait until it is safe to pass? I always thought that horses took precedence, from what I was told years ago.....
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The RULES are on the BHS website. Worth looking and remembering so if anything did happen you know your rights.
 
LadyGascoyne said:
I am not excusing speeding or reckless driving, as I said people should drive with more care.

But I'm certainly not about to leave earlier than necessary and add 15 min to my travel time on the off chance I meet a horse along the way.

And I do ride on the road, I just take extra precaution to stay out of the way and don't expect people to slow down. I see it asy responsibility. Obviously every precaution in the world can't prevent accidents from occurring. I just feel the unapologetic attitude that our horses should cause other people inconvenience gives us riders a bad name.
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I'd agree with all of that :) There is a chap called Barry Hook who breaks horses to harness, he has some excellent videos on schooling horses in traffic. Interestingly his viewpoint is that we should all be schooling our horses not to react in traffic so that when the unexpected happens it is easily dealt with. He doesn't believe that keeping off the roads is the answer as the less horses and riders are exposed to traffic, then the bigger the issue becomes when they are.

Of course it wouldn't stop anyone ploughing into the back of you, but educating our horses has to be a part of the equation.
 
tallyho! said:
Well actually its in the Highway Code and is part of the THINK! Campaign so motorists do actually have to know about it. I had a question on it in my theory test and I even had a picture with horses in it asking what do I do.

So that is why they should be more careful... It's the rules!
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Yes, it may be THE RULES, but I can guarantee you that the average car driver has no idea about horses, no idea how they might behave if he comes too close, too fast, no idea how close too close is, and also couldn't care less. Many people come on here raging about how their young/spooky horses has been terrified by some careless driver; the driver is not careless, he/she is CLUELESS, as in doesn't have a clue that he/she has caused a problem, has no idea just how dangerous it can be, and probably feels that if you cannot control your horse you shouldn't be out on the road - and I have some sympathy with this view. Why should the majority (car drivers) have to be inconvenienced by the very tiny minority (horse riders)?
 
We have sadly decided to give up riding as we are of an age when we can remember peacefully hacking along quiet country lanes without seeing a car for an hour or more. There is absolutely no pleasure left now as instead of enjoying the banks of wild flowers or stopping to watch a buzzard soaring in the sky, we were constantly straining to hear if there was a car, or worse, approaching us from behind - twice we had narrowly missed being run into on a blind bend. As my wise OH says you can't recapture what you once had, times are changing with a vengeance and not for the better. I admire people who ride on the roads but knowing of a lovely honest little cob that was killed by a milk tanker and two friends who separately broke their necks in accidents on the road I wouldn't want to take the chance of an accident now, especially as our wonderful government has decided that people of a certain are no longer worth treating!
 
With my advanced driver and LGV hat on ....

Most drivers know when they are likely to be in an area where they come across not only horses but walkers, joggers, dog walkers, child cyclists etc so the main onus is on the drivers to be prepared to slow down or stop for any potential hazard

Drivers know this but often choose to put their own agenda first and no amount of training or education is going to change the thinking of another human being unless that person is ready to have their thinking changed

That is the reality of the situation
 
I'd actually like to make it compulsory for everyone who drives to walk along any road they use regularly at least twice a year so that they might understand how vulnerable other road users are. I've always had good experience of meeting motorcyclists on the road which I feel is partly down to them understanding vulnerability better.
But an awful lot of people have never walked along a country road and felt what it's like to be passed by fast traffic and feel totally secure in their car "bubble".
 
I know of someona taking part in a horse-drawn parade in London, who actually had car drivers trying to nudge his horses to get them out of the way!!! We live in a very selfish, want it now and throw it away society. People will only put a value on things if it affects them directly.
How about the BHS getting together with the DVLC, to make it compulsory that the driving test includes driving past horses on a quiet road? The BHS could surely use their accident statistics to back up the need for this. There must be people willing to use their horses in such a test? Maybe even some stunt riders who could make their horses react unexpectedly to guage the ability of the driver, without putting their horses at risk of course. Would this be feasible???
 
Saneta said:
I know of someona taking part in a horse-drawn parade in London, who actually had car drivers trying to nudge his horses to get them out of the way!!! We live in a very selfish, want it now and throw it away society. People will only put a value on things if it affects them directly.
How about the BHS getting together with the DVLC, to make it compulsory that the driving test includes driving past horses on a quiet road? The BHS could surely use their accident statistics to back up the need for this. There must be people willing to use their horses in such a test? Maybe even some stunt riders who could make their horses react unexpectedly to guage the ability of the driver, without putting their horses at risk of course. Would this be feasible???
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I don't think it would make much difference tbh - as Rog says, they know what they should do, they just don't. I'm sure they would drive differently under test conditions compared to everyday. Also it would be a nightmare to organise, out of the hundreds taking tests daily there wouldn't be a chance of organising it practically I don't think - the theory test is another matter, although I suspect seeing horses as a hazard is already up there.
 
But it's like driving on the motorway. In the exam, you can be calm and remember the rules and give the right answers, but until you've actually experienced doing it for yourself, it's a whole different ball game.
Maybe it would be possible to include meeting horses on the road as part of the driving course itself? Local driving schools could have arrangements with local riding schools, and set aside one or two days a week when they bring their customers along for the experience. I'm just trying to think of a practical solution to this dreadful problem, that is hands on rather than theory based only. I wonder what the IAM would think...
 
Cortez said:
Yes, it may be THE RULES, but I can guarantee you that the average car driver has no idea about horses, no idea how they might behave if he comes too close, too fast, no idea how close too close is, and also couldn't care less. Many people come on here raging about how their young/spooky horses has been terrified by some careless driver; the driver is not careless, he/she is CLUELESS, as in doesn't have a clue that he/she has caused a problem, has no idea just how dangerous it can be, and probably feels that if you cannot control your horse you shouldn't be out on the road - and I have some sympathy with this view. Why should the majority (car drivers) have to be inconvenienced by the very tiny minority (horse riders)?
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Also as a driver, horses are the least of my worries. It's children! Balls, scooters, you name it especially when you live in a city. At least horses are more predictable... More so than kids and cyclists and scooter riders! Lol!!

Riders might be a tiny minority but drivers are not protected if they should, god forbid, come into blows with a rider and a horse. People say a rider should be wearing hi-vis etc but I have discovered that there is no get out clause if you hit a horse.

You are right, many drivers are ignorant and if they would only take heed all the warnings, it would make it a huge difference. It doesn't take any time at all to slow down and drive wide and slow.
 
This thread raises so many issues. I have to agree that there seem to be more and more impatient and aggresive drivers around. I see this not just as a rider but as a motorist as well. I am one of those people that assume that there may be a hazard around the blind bend and slow down accordingly, stop at amber lights etc. This seems to pee off certain other drivers.
On the other hand I see riders from my yard heading out for hacks on the roads in what I would consider dangerous conditions - low afternoon sun, icy roads, foggy weather and I don't think it is fair to drivers to meet horses in such conditions.

There have been so many dreadful accidents recently involving horses that I really worry about riding on the roads. Thankfully we have a mile or so of farm track we can ride along so can at least get out for a bit of a hack without meeting heavy traffic. It would be nice to have longer hacks though.
 
for me, I'm just accepting that the world has changed, and I'm not willing to risk a van up my horse's a*se for the sake of making a point. I'll trailer them out to some good riding where we dont have to go on roads. sad but not worth the risk to me.
 
LeneHorse said:
This thread raises so many issues. I have to agree that there seem to be more and more impatient and aggresive drivers around. I see this not just as a rider but as a motorist as well. I am one of those people that assume that there may be a hazard around the blind bend and slow down accordingly, stop at amber lights etc. This seems to pee off certain other drivers.
On the other hand I see riders from my yard heading out for hacks on the roads in what I would consider dangerous conditions - low afternoon sun, icy roads, foggy weather and I don't think it is fair to drivers to meet horses in such conditions.

There have been so many dreadful accidents recently involving horses that I really worry about riding on the roads. Thankfully we have a mile or so of farm track we can ride along so can at least get out for a bit of a hack without meeting heavy traffic. It would be nice to have longer hacks though.
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So true! Here in Bath, the speed limit just been reduced to20 and going up my road, I was keeping to 20 and some Beemer driver overtook me and sped off up the hill!! Infact, there is always someone behind me, veering out trying to overtake. Considering there is a massive lit sign saying "SCHOOL", they just ignore it. To be fair the school run mums are the worst of the flipping lot!!!
 
I haven't read all of this thread (unusual for me) so, apologies if I'm repeating something that's already been said.

Far too many car drivers believe they own the road and nothing else should be on it, some of them just don't have a piggin clue about horses and some people resent us on the road because they think we should be riding in the fields and don't realise that we're not allowed to (I said to someone a few weeks ago, if you don't like it then campaign the government to put pressure on the farmers to let us use their fields). Frankly, I'd rather ride in the fields.

I ride a motorbike as well and we have the same problem from some car drivers. I've actually had a bloke deliberately drive his car into me to try to prevent me from filtering to the traffic lights, which I've a legal right to do. A cyclist friend of mine also has this problem with car/van/etc. drivers. Most bikers tend to be more aware of horses as they stand to get pretty badly hurt if a horse hoofs them in the head.

I'm another one who thinks we shouldn't just 'suck it up' but should maintain our right to ride on the road. That said, I only ride on country roads. I do think the main roads are for motorised vehicles. A large number of car drivers need to be re-educated to understand that they/we don't own the bloody road! The drink driving campaigns have made an impact and I think a campaign to make car drivers more aware of horses/bikes/cycles would also have an impact in time. It's a campaign that's long overdue.

Just in case anyone's not seen this, here it is again http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52370
 
Wow I wonder if the UK roads are getting much busier than they were when I lived there? Again though when I lived down south I lived in a great area close to lots of bridleways. I don't recall ever having any near misses on the little lanes or the busy roads I used to ride along but I didn't really have to do much road work to get to the bridleways.

Over here it's different to the UK with respects to riding on the roads. We have really big wide roads where I live and all these roads have 10/12ft wide gravel verges, so all in all the whole area of road space is like having 4 lanes but vehicles are only allowed on the paved 2 lanes so there's not really much chance of anyone being run into. Then we have the wide grass verges beyond that so we can be pretty far away from the vehicles if needs be. On the little lanes or side roads the traffic I meet always slow down for horses. I don't know whether it's because they like to see the horses out and about so they slow down to look and wave. Apparently before I moved here there weren't many horses in the area; of course now there are loads of us so road users are quite used to seeing us out and about. I always always thank drivers for slowing down, even if they don't slow down. I'm absolutely sure this has helped us greatly with having drivers slow down when passing us, maybe not the first time but after they've been thanked they do the next time.

There's a fair few of us locally who ride into town and go through the drive through donut/coffee shop. If we don't go back home via the old railway line trail then we will ride along the big grassy trail (park) along the riverbank right next to the main road into town. The riverbank is above the road so we're well up from the traffic. The drivers always slow down to look and smile and wave. I think that maybe over here people are in less of a hurry to get to where they need to get to. There is a much slower pace of life here than in the UK, suits me perfectly.
 
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