atot
Well-Known Member
Ooohhh, a discovery?? My mum could def. get that through work. Would that be more efficient than the freelander?
trailer boffs....a few Qs (well, lots!)
- Thread starter atot
- Start date
star
Well-Known Member
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My suzuki GV has a tow limit of 2000kg . this is grand - my 505 and my horse plus extras just about scrap this weight and i have never had any bother with towing.
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shame you're breaking the law though! UK Law says that the towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer's MAM - this is the maximum that the trailer is allowed to weigh, regardless of whether you are going to tow it empty down the road to the shops or with 2 big horses on board. The MAM of the Ifor Williams 505 is just under 2.5tonnes. Your car cannot legally tow anywhere near this therefore you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter one little bit what you actually have on board. The police know these facts and are stopping more and more people for spot checks. I'd change your towing vehicle sharpish.
It seems many of you are confused over this matter - forget what you are actually putting in the trailer. Your towing vehicle absolutely must be capable of towing the MAM of the trailer - dont know about all trailers but the 505 is just under 2.5tonne and the 510 is about 2.7 tonnes.
My suzuki GV has a tow limit of 2000kg . this is grand - my 505 and my horse plus extras just about scrap this weight and i have never had any bother with towing.
[/ QUOTE ]
shame you're breaking the law though! UK Law says that the towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer's MAM - this is the maximum that the trailer is allowed to weigh, regardless of whether you are going to tow it empty down the road to the shops or with 2 big horses on board. The MAM of the Ifor Williams 505 is just under 2.5tonnes. Your car cannot legally tow anywhere near this therefore you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter one little bit what you actually have on board. The police know these facts and are stopping more and more people for spot checks. I'd change your towing vehicle sharpish.
It seems many of you are confused over this matter - forget what you are actually putting in the trailer. Your towing vehicle absolutely must be capable of towing the MAM of the trailer - dont know about all trailers but the 505 is just under 2.5tonne and the 510 is about 2.7 tonnes.
Law
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My suzuki GV has a tow limit of 2000kg . this is grand - my 505 and my horse plus extras just about scrap this weight and i have never had any bother with towing.
[/ QUOTE ]
shame you're breaking the law though! UK Law says that the towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer's MAM - this is the maximum that the trailer is allowed to weigh, regardless of whether you are going to tow it empty down the road to the shops or with 2 big horses on board. The MAM of the Ifor Williams 505 is just under 2.5tonnes. Your car cannot legally tow anywhere near this therefore you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter one little bit what you actually have on board. The police know these facts and are stopping more and more people for spot checks. I'd change your towing vehicle sharpish.
It seems many of you are confused over this matter - forget what you are actually putting in the trailer. Your towing vehicle absolutely must be capable of towing the MAM of the trailer - dont know about all trailers but the 505 is just under 2.5tonne and the 510 is about 2.7 tonnes.
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I'd like to ditto that. Freelanders are awful to tow with from my experience. I know lots and lots of people who tow with Discoveries and really rate them.
[ QUOTE ]
My suzuki GV has a tow limit of 2000kg . this is grand - my 505 and my horse plus extras just about scrap this weight and i have never had any bother with towing.
[/ QUOTE ]
shame you're breaking the law though! UK Law says that the towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer's MAM - this is the maximum that the trailer is allowed to weigh, regardless of whether you are going to tow it empty down the road to the shops or with 2 big horses on board. The MAM of the Ifor Williams 505 is just under 2.5tonnes. Your car cannot legally tow anywhere near this therefore you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter one little bit what you actually have on board. The police know these facts and are stopping more and more people for spot checks. I'd change your towing vehicle sharpish.
It seems many of you are confused over this matter - forget what you are actually putting in the trailer. Your towing vehicle absolutely must be capable of towing the MAM of the trailer - dont know about all trailers but the 505 is just under 2.5tonne and the 510 is about 2.7 tonnes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'd like to ditto that. Freelanders are awful to tow with from my experience. I know lots and lots of people who tow with Discoveries and really rate them.
Baileyhoss
Well-Known Member
yep a disco would be more capable than a freelander. do you have a landy dealer you can pop down to for advice, or google them.
Chunkie
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My suzuki GV has a tow limit of 2000kg . this is grand - my 505 and my horse plus extras just about scrap this weight and i have never had any bother with towing.
[/ QUOTE ]
shame you're breaking the law though! UK Law says that the towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer's MAM - this is the maximum that the trailer is allowed to weigh, regardless of whether you are going to tow it empty down the road to the shops or with 2 big horses on board. The MAM of the Ifor Williams 505 is just under 2.5tonnes. Your car cannot legally tow anywhere near this therefore you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter one little bit what you actually have on board. The police know these facts and are stopping more and more people for spot checks. I'd change your towing vehicle sharpish.
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Star is quite rght - I tow with a Grand Vitara too, and am fairly certain I can't go over 1500kg with it legally (i tow about 1250 max).
The engine size has NOTHING to do with what you can tow - it's down to kerb weight.
If your Mom can get a Disco, that is a much heavier car than the Freelander, so would legally be capable of towing more - although I don't know what they're like to tow with.
[ QUOTE ]
My suzuki GV has a tow limit of 2000kg . this is grand - my 505 and my horse plus extras just about scrap this weight and i have never had any bother with towing.
[/ QUOTE ]
shame you're breaking the law though! UK Law says that the towing vehicle must be capable of towing the trailer's MAM - this is the maximum that the trailer is allowed to weigh, regardless of whether you are going to tow it empty down the road to the shops or with 2 big horses on board. The MAM of the Ifor Williams 505 is just under 2.5tonnes. Your car cannot legally tow anywhere near this therefore you are breaking the law. It doesn't matter one little bit what you actually have on board. The police know these facts and are stopping more and more people for spot checks. I'd change your towing vehicle sharpish.
[/ QUOTE ]
Star is quite rght - I tow with a Grand Vitara too, and am fairly certain I can't go over 1500kg with it legally (i tow about 1250 max).
The engine size has NOTHING to do with what you can tow - it's down to kerb weight.
If your Mom can get a Disco, that is a much heavier car than the Freelander, so would legally be capable of towing more - although I don't know what they're like to tow with.
FigJam
Well-Known Member
For those who are saying that it is illegal to tow a trailer with MAM > car's braked towing limit, can you please let me know where you have found this information? I found this;
Requirements regarding trailers used on the road are given in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended. The following is a summary of the main requirements.
Weight
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.
For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.
The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.
On here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers
Which seems to be a reliable source and contradict what you are saying? I agree that the bigger the engine and the heavier the car in relation to the trailer, the better. But I don't think it is illegal to tow with something that has a braked towing limit less than the trailer's MAM, as long as you restrict the load you carry.
Happy to be corrected or pointed in the right direction if I'm wrong, just very curious.
Requirements regarding trailers used on the road are given in the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, as amended and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989, as amended. The following is a summary of the main requirements.
Weight
In the case of light trailers, that is less than 3500kg maximum laden weight, there is not any specified relationship in UK law between the weight of the towing vehicle and the weight of the trailer.
For M1 category vehicles (motor vehicles used for the carriage of passengers and comprising not more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat) the maximum permissible trailer weight is quoted by the vehicle manufacturer. Alternatively, the vehicle manufacturer may provide a maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle). If this is exceeded it is possible that the Courts or Insurance Companies may take the view that this constitutes a danger.
The maximum laden weight of a trailer which may be towed by a light goods vehicle depends on both the stated gross train weight of the towing vehicle (GTW) and the vehicle manufacturer's recommended maximum permissible trailer weight. Neither the maximum permissible trailer weight or the maximum gross train weight (the laden weight of the trailer plus the laden weight of the towing vehicle) should be exceeded. It is possible that the stated gross train weight is less than the sum of the stated maximum permissible laden weight of the towing vehicle and the stated maximum permissible laden trailer weight. In this case the towing vehicle and the trailer must be loaded such that each does not exceed its individual maximum limit and the sum of both does not exceed the maximum gross train weight.
On here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers
Which seems to be a reliable source and contradict what you are saying? I agree that the bigger the engine and the heavier the car in relation to the trailer, the better. But I don't think it is illegal to tow with something that has a braked towing limit less than the trailer's MAM, as long as you restrict the load you carry.
Happy to be corrected or pointed in the right direction if I'm wrong, just very curious.
star
Well-Known Member
it's the EU towing legislation, rather than the UK law which is as you stae above. Unfortunately we are members of the EU and therefore have to follow their laws too.
At present, in the UK, the vehicle you use to tow and the trailer and load you tow with MUST NOT exceed the Maximum Train Weight for the vehicle. This weight can be found either in the manufacturers handbook, or on the chassis plate. In addition, the weight of the trailer and load MUST NOT exceed the manufacturers recommendations.
For example, an SWB Isuzu Trooper has a Max Gross Weight (eg NOT towing) of 2600 kgs. It has a Max Train Weight (eg WITH trailer and load etc) of 5900kgs. Isuzu say that you should not tow a trailer and load ANY HEAVIER than 3300kgs. Therefore, this vehicle can comfortably tow ANY horse trailer and two horses and be safely within its weight limits.
EU legislation states that the towing vehicle MUST be capable of towing the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass eg how much it and its contents can jointly weigh) of any trailer it tows. For example, an IW HB510R has a MAM of 2584kgs.
it seems this EU law is little publicised and little known about and there are many people breaking this law unwittingly.
At present, in the UK, the vehicle you use to tow and the trailer and load you tow with MUST NOT exceed the Maximum Train Weight for the vehicle. This weight can be found either in the manufacturers handbook, or on the chassis plate. In addition, the weight of the trailer and load MUST NOT exceed the manufacturers recommendations.
For example, an SWB Isuzu Trooper has a Max Gross Weight (eg NOT towing) of 2600 kgs. It has a Max Train Weight (eg WITH trailer and load etc) of 5900kgs. Isuzu say that you should not tow a trailer and load ANY HEAVIER than 3300kgs. Therefore, this vehicle can comfortably tow ANY horse trailer and two horses and be safely within its weight limits.
EU legislation states that the towing vehicle MUST be capable of towing the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass eg how much it and its contents can jointly weigh) of any trailer it tows. For example, an IW HB510R has a MAM of 2584kgs.
it seems this EU law is little publicised and little known about and there are many people breaking this law unwittingly.
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
it's the EU towing legislation, rather than the UK law which is as you stae above. Unfortunately we are members of the EU and therefore have to follow their laws too.
At present, in the UK, the vehicle you use to tow and the trailer and load you tow with MUST NOT exceed the Maximum Train Weight for the vehicle. This weight can be found either in the manufacturers handbook, or on the chassis plate. In addition, the weight of the trailer and load MUST NOT exceed the manufacturers recommendations.
For example, an SWB Isuzu Trooper has a Max Gross Weight (eg NOT towing) of 2600 kgs. It has a Max Train Weight (eg WITH trailer and load etc) of 5900kgs. Isuzu say that you should not tow a trailer and load ANY HEAVIER than 3300kgs. Therefore, this vehicle can comfortably tow ANY horse trailer and two horses and be safely within its weight limits.
EU legislation states that the towing vehicle MUST be capable of towing the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass eg how much it and its contents can jointly weigh) of any trailer it tows. For example, an IW HB510R has a MAM of 2584kgs.
it seems this EU law is little publicised and little known about and there are many people breaking this law unwittingly.
[/ QUOTE ]
well said and explained, star.
it's the EU towing legislation, rather than the UK law which is as you stae above. Unfortunately we are members of the EU and therefore have to follow their laws too.
At present, in the UK, the vehicle you use to tow and the trailer and load you tow with MUST NOT exceed the Maximum Train Weight for the vehicle. This weight can be found either in the manufacturers handbook, or on the chassis plate. In addition, the weight of the trailer and load MUST NOT exceed the manufacturers recommendations.
For example, an SWB Isuzu Trooper has a Max Gross Weight (eg NOT towing) of 2600 kgs. It has a Max Train Weight (eg WITH trailer and load etc) of 5900kgs. Isuzu say that you should not tow a trailer and load ANY HEAVIER than 3300kgs. Therefore, this vehicle can comfortably tow ANY horse trailer and two horses and be safely within its weight limits.
EU legislation states that the towing vehicle MUST be capable of towing the MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass eg how much it and its contents can jointly weigh) of any trailer it tows. For example, an IW HB510R has a MAM of 2584kgs.
it seems this EU law is little publicised and little known about and there are many people breaking this law unwittingly.
[/ QUOTE ]
well said and explained, star.
atot
Well-Known Member
Thankyou star for explaining that.
cheers guys for your imput. I'm going to talk to mum/landrover dealers, YO, and see what I can find out.
cheers guys for your imput. I'm going to talk to mum/landrover dealers, YO, and see what I can find out.
Ludi-doodi
Well-Known Member
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You'd get away with a IW 505 and a small horse but not much else!
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Ok, so if we made sure that horses weight added up to within the weight of horse + trailer weight = less than 2000kg, do you think we will be ok? We deff. won't be able to take another horse then..... Will talk to mum and see what she thinks about changing. Bugger.
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Don't forget to take into acount what's in the car too - people, tack, water etc. That will all add to what the car will comfortably be able to carry - if you are close to the 2k weight mark with trailer and horse then add in all the other stuff you might find it'll struggle up hills etc. Although it was one the original freelanders, I nearly killed the one I had towing.
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You'd get away with a IW 505 and a small horse but not much else!
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, so if we made sure that horses weight added up to within the weight of horse + trailer weight = less than 2000kg, do you think we will be ok? We deff. won't be able to take another horse then..... Will talk to mum and see what she thinks about changing. Bugger.
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Don't forget to take into acount what's in the car too - people, tack, water etc. That will all add to what the car will comfortably be able to carry - if you are close to the 2k weight mark with trailer and horse then add in all the other stuff you might find it'll struggle up hills etc. Although it was one the original freelanders, I nearly killed the one I had towing.
FigJam
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the explaination star. It seems very strange and unfair that this legislation is not publicised at all/very well. Going by the EU law, surely at least 50% of trailers are being towed EU-illegally even if they are fine by UK law.
Surely someone somewhere has an obligation to highlight this law, as although I know breaking the law through ignorance shouldn't be an excuse, there are plenty people out there who genuinely believe they are following the law?
Surely someone somewhere has an obligation to highlight this law, as although I know breaking the law through ignorance shouldn't be an excuse, there are plenty people out there who genuinely believe they are following the law?