Trailer tying help

[Darcey22]

Hey all,
New to this forum and hoping you can help me?
So I have just bought a horse after 20 years and just started taking her in my trailer to local competitions.
She doesn’t tie well at all. She leans back on the twine snaps it, and wanders off (she doesn’t even do it with grace, she wanders at a pace that is fast enough, I can’t grab the lead rope and slow enough that I look like a dick head!)
Anyway, it’s become a habit now and she also does it in the trailer.
So my questions are… 1) I have a IW hb506 and started tying her to the front bar by the window (on twine) next to her haynet. Is this dangerous? I find she snaps the twine next to her when she looks round. The trailer has the partition in.
2) are the trailer ties any good? Do they clip straight to the ring and would they release if she were to fall over in the trailer? Or does it rely on me to pull over and unlatch her?
3) how can I stop the habit of her braking the twine and wandering off every time she is tied? I have to add, she is never frightened when she is tied. It genuinely is a habit! X

 

[Barton Bounty]

You get ties that are on a bungee cord would that maybe help, gives a bit of elasticity but difficult to break without force

 

[Patterdale]

I would tie her to something that won’t break….but if you’re not that mean then put a thick rope from the ring, round her back end and back to the ring. Then when she pulls back she gets pressure from behind.

Personally though I tie all mine up for long periods directly to the ring from being yearlings. They don’t pull back after a bit.
In an emergency the lead rope clip breaks.

 

[Red-1]

I won't use the bungee ones as the tension in the elastic can let go with huuuge force if they do snap or the ring comes off. It flips it back towards the horse's face.

I do hard tie (as in no string) in the box (and elsewhere), with a similar tie, so I will always be able to release the horse, but in a non elastic version.

I use a leather hater to travel so that could snap too, but hopefully only if the horse is actually in danger such as trapped or fallen.

However, I also do a lot of ground-work so they know how to give to the pressure rather than pull back. Once one has learned to pull back to release, it takes some ground-work to re-program that.

 

[Darcey22]

Is it dangerous to tie her to the bar in the nose of the trailer? X

 

[Barton Bounty]

Is it dangerous to tie her to the bar in the nose of the trailer? X

Probably but you do what you need to, if it works then ?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My old lad would pull back when tied to the trailer at a show not in the trailer though but he dud at hone ad well. So I used to tie him up as usual then attach a lunge line on to the head collar and just pass it through the string. When he pulled vback I had enough time to grab lunge line and stop him. He soon gave up. I would never ever tie straight to a ring without string, I have seen a horse pull back, slip and break its neck because nothing gave way.

 

[Darcey22]

Thanks Fern. I will try this at home. Still stuck on trailer though. Wondering whether to leave her loose? She has partition in

 

[Sealine]

It may be worth trying a non-elastic trailer tie. I've used this type in the past without any problems.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292441946768

 

[Abacus]

I have used a similar system to Fern, but with one long and one short rope tied to two separate loops of twine (thick enough to need some pressure to break). When my horse pulled the first rope free the second one was there, and it seemed to confuse him into not doing it a second time. It at least gives you longer to get hold of her before she wanders away.

EDIT: I wouldn't tie a genuinely scared horse to a solid ring but have done so with one that is just being a prat.

 

[canteron]

Use a tether tie - the can pull the rope through if enough pressure (so if they fell down in the trailer it would give) but in a trailer they would struggle to get the leverage to pull the rope through by just moving, especially if you cross tie.
https://idolotethertie.com/

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I saw a brilliant idea at a lecture on how horses learn where they taught a horse to be happy tied up by rewarding her.

They used a small chopping board smeared with a tasty food (they used peanut butter but I'm tempted to go with some horselyx type thing) and hung that where the horse was to be tied up and it learnt being tied up was a nice place to be because it could lick the tasty treat from the chopping board.

 

[Annagain]

Have you tried one of these?
Equipride Idolo Tether Tie Safety Horse Pony & Clip Quick Release Stable & Horse Box Tying (Blue) : Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies

If you pm me your address I'll send you mine. it didn't really work for my previous horse as although it doesn't really move with one long constant pressure, it does with lots of short sharp yanks and guess who worked that out pretty quickly . It wouldn't work on the trailer but it might help break the pattern?

 

[Darcey22]

Hi Annagain
Yes I suspect my mare would work that out quite quickly too.
I am debating whether to bother tying her in the trailer at all tbh? Would be interested to hear thoughts on this. She is a 16.2h chunky ish in a iw hb505 with the partition in.
I am currently tying her to some twine on the lower bar in the nose of the trailer and her haynet on the top bar. This seems to be working better as she is so food motivated that she just tucks into her haynet. But I don’t know if I am endangering her by tying her here?

 

[Landcruiser]

I would give the Idolo tie a try but the key is, you must use a LONG ROPE. Train off the trailer first. Use a rope that is at least 20 foot long. You shouldn't need that much, but with a confirmed puller backer, that's what I'd do. You can vary the pressure of the Idolo tie according to how you thread it. I think they are brilliant, and have them all around my yard and on my trailer too.
I would be very worried about tying to the front bar of the trailer. I also wouldn't leave loose, although I can't say why exactly. It just feels as if it's inviting disaster. Horses manage to injure themselves in such imaginative ways.

 

[Darcey22]

I would give the Idolo tie a try but the key is, you must use a LONG ROPE. Train off the trailer first. Use a rope that is at least 20 foot long. You shouldn't need that much, but with a confirmed puller backer, that's what I'd do. You can vary the pressure of the Idolo tie according to how you thread it. I think they are brilliant, and have them all around my yard and on my trailer too.
I would be very worried about tying to the front bar of the trailer. I also wouldn't leave loose, although I can't say why exactly. It just feels as if it's inviting disaster. Horses manage to injure themselves in such imaginative ways.

Hey Landcruiser,
Why would you be worried about tying to front bar? Just intrigued as can’t see the difference between tying to this or the haynet ring, that just looks so uncomfortable for her? I hasten to add, I don’t tie directly to the bar, always string x

 

[ihatework]

For the time being I’d take the partition out. Use front and back bars. Cross tie without string but use quick release ropes. Then just do the horse in the box and don’t tie outside.

You can then continue to address the tying at home.

 

[Carrottom]

One way that can work is making a succession of loops of twine each slightly larger. You put the rope through 5 loops so as they break each one they are still tied. It can help to break the habit of pulling back.

 

[Darcey22]

For the time being I’d take the partition out. Use front and back bars. Cross tie without string but use quick release ropes. Then just do the horse in the box and don’t tie outside.

You can then continue to address the tying at home.

She travels better with partition in tbh so I wouldn’t want to take it out. X

 

[Landcruiser]

Hey Landcruiser,
Why would you be worried about tying to front bar? Just intrigued as can’t see the difference between tying to this or the haynet ring, that just looks so uncomfortable for her? I hasten to add, I don’t tie directly to the bar, always string x

I guess I'd be worried about her pulling back and pulling the bar out of it's fixings - I just feel that a flying bar could do some damage. I know it's not likely, but I just have an instinct against it.

 

[McFluff]

Another vote for the idoho tie with a long rope. Mine was a monkey for snapping a quick release tie point - just for fun really (he wasnt ever worried or panicked, just seemed to want to break free - he didn’t even run off, just stood munching his hay, but no longer tied to anything).
With the tie and a long rope, I have time to stop the escape attempt, and he now behaves perfectly with it. For some weird reason (he is Welsh…) he still breaks a fixed tie.
You could use this to tie up in your trailer as she womt have enough space to pull it out. She’ll still be tied up, and she’ll be able to get the length of rope she needs to move her head etc.

 

[Shoei]

One of mine is a bugger for this. This is what I do which works.

I use an Idalo for general tying, they seem to get out the habit when there isn't a snap reward.
When loading, I load with a lunge line, go out the jokey door, around the back, but bar and ramp up, come back around the front and fasten him, he then gets a treat! He did have to learn to do this but now stands with his head out the jokey door awaiting his Stud Muffin. It's the only time he gets them.

I wouldn't use trailer ties... he snapped those and I though one of us was going to lose and eye!!!

 

[Darcey22]

Yea think I will get an idolo. Do you have to use a long lead rope for it?
Do you tie him in the trailer or just fasten the front and back bars? X

 

[Shoei]

I just use a normal rope on the Idalo. I have the central partition out in my trailer so I cross tie as normal.

 

[Annagain]

I would give the Idolo tie a try but the key is, you must use a LONG ROPE. Train off the trailer first. Use a rope that is at least 20 foot long. You shouldn't need that much, but with a confirmed puller backer, that's what I'd do. You can vary the pressure of the Idolo tie according to how you thread it. I think they are brilliant, and have them all around my yard and on my trailer too.
I would be very worried about tying to the front bar of the trailer. I also wouldn't leave loose, although I can't say why exactly. It just feels as if it's inviting disaster. Horses manage to injure themselves in such imaginative ways.

Charlie managed to pull a 3m rope through quite a few times. More often than not I'd get to him before he reached the end but not always. He thought it was great fun and he was really clever .

I've accidentally left Wiggy untied a few times - he loads himself so I unclip his leadrope as he goes on the trailer. I do the breaching bar up then I pop to the front and clip the trailer tie I have permanently attached to the trailer onto his headcollar. A few times I've got to the other end and realised I haven't clipped him on. There's little benefit to tying up in terms of balance etc but I suppose the danger is the horse getting loose if there's an incident en route.

I wouldn't worry about it while she's standing at a show though. In fact I'd leave her on the trailer until the last possible moment, get everything else ready (even stuff for afterwards) then whip her off, tack on and off you go. As soon as you're back, tack off, quick wash or brush down (holding her if necessary) and pop her straight back on the trailer. You can put boots on while she's on there (back ones from the back ramp, front ones from the front of the trailer) if she stands still (or don't bother - I see far more people without travelling boots these days)

 

[Boughtabay]

Can I revive this thread to ask a bit more about the idolo and loading? OP how did you get on?

Long story but here we go:
Purchased horse 2 years ago now, loaded to come home ok, he’d only been in the trailer a few times. Didn’t have my own trailer at the time so not boxed again for maybe the next year? Eventually bought box and he went in ok but a bit sticky, didn’t travel well - doesn’t like the partition in (checked w previous owner & he’d never travelled with partition before). Another break while I tried to source full length bars. Built up to travelling semi regular this year, with me leading on & OH shutting the back. Became more reliable (dually helped) but if he gets the chance he will pull back sharply /push the bar before it’s clipped in if OH isn’t super fast and rush off the back (back load & unload only trailer). Does not rush off after being shut in and allowed back out or after travelling anywhere. He’s bashed my OHs fingers a few times doing this now and i don’t want to put him at risk for my “hobby”. Plus I really need to be able to get him out and about alone anyway so we’ve gone back to teaching trailering from scratch - except now I’m working with a bigger horse who knows his strength than the one who arrived 2 years ago

I can lead him in with me at his head or send him on from the back/up the ramp. He will stand with 4 feet on the box and relax 3,4,5….N times in a row & I send him off before he has the idea himself. then on the odd try he’ll shoot back again and we go again and then he’ll stand fine again once reloaded for a while. Me showing any signs that I’m going to leave him on the box alone or fetch the back bar will usually trigger and escape attempt though… If I stay at the back to send him forwards again, the lack of partition means he can turn around so that’s where we are at the moment. I need to stop the shooting back/turning now that I can get him in the box reliably. so I’m thinking he needs to start tying up in there before I re-introduce the bar. Thinking of using the idolo - I’ve got one but my shires “topaz” leadrope seems too slick and comes through even on the “higher setting” (with just me tugging on it not the horse!) and my lunge line is one of those flat white cotton types - will that work with the idolo?

Next plan phase is to load as we have been, tie up with the idolo and return to his bottom and wait for the pull - then between the idolo’s no quick release and me sending him forward again he should get it ? … honestly I’m just brainstorming at this point as I don’t have anyone horsey around me atm to bounce ideas off

He ties up fine elsewhere and has been hard tied in the past I believe but I’m less inclined to do that now that he’s established being able to rush backwards as I’m not sure how far he’d escalate it before giving up

 

[Annagain]

I had this problem with two of mine when I first had them. Archie wasn't in the slightest bit bothered by travelling, he just has a sense of humour. Once he was off he'd stand there looking at me - or if he'd been bathed he would find the first bit of mud and roll before standing there looking at me.

An over the door bucket hanging over the breast bar with a handful of cubes in it (enough to keep him occupied but not so much that they couldn't roll around and be hard to grab so as to keep him busy) would take his mind off playing games for long enough for me to do the breaching bar up. I also loaded him with a lunge line so that if he did try to get away I had more time to react.

With Charlie, he was worried about it so we just did lots and lots of training. Walking through the trailer at first (assume you have front unload?), then walking and stopping, then walking on, stopping, doing breast bar up, undoing it straight away. We then added a bit of wait to undo breast bar followed by going with breast bar in place, undoing straightaway and off, then a wait before going off, then a second person doing breaching bar with all the same stages, then me leaving his head to do breaching bar with the same stage. Tying up was the very last thing (other than doing it all with front ramp closed). Once he was doing what I wanted him to do for that session, he had a feed on the trailer - on the front ramp half way out to begin with then in the trailer. It took weeks of nigh on daily practice but we got there!

I should add even if he wasn't tied up, he'd have a long rope attached so I could keep hold of him while I went to the back to do the bar up, that way if he pulled back it would have enough length that I still had hold of him. The logic with the tying up last is he doesn't learn that pulling back snaps the rope / tie so there's no 'reward' for doing it. Only when he was safely contained and can't pull back would the trailer tie be clipped on.

 

[Boughtabay]

I had this problem with two of mine when I first had them. Archie wasn't in the slightest bit bothered by travelling, he just has a sense of humour. Once he was off he'd stand there looking at me - or if he'd been bathed he would find the first bit of mud and roll before standing there looking at me.

An over the door bucket hanging over the breast bar with a handful of cubes in it (enough to keep him occupied but not so much that they couldn't roll around and be hard to grab so as to keep him busy) would take his mind off playing games for long enough for me to do the breaching bar up. I also loaded him with a lunge line so that if he did try to get away I had more time to react.

With Charlie, he was worried about it so we just did lots and lots of training. Walking through the trailer at first (assume you have front unload?), then walking and stopping, then walking on, stopping, doing breast bar up, undoing it straight away. We then added a bit of wait to undo breast bar followed by going with breast bar in place, undoing straightaway and off, then a wait before going off, then a second person doing breaching bar with all the same stages, then me leaving his head to do breaching bar with the same stage. Tying up was the very last thing (other than doing it all with front ramp closed). Once he was doing what I wanted him to do for that session, he had a feed on the trailer - on the front ramp half way out to begin with then in the trailer. It took weeks of nigh on daily practice but we got there!

I should add even if he wasn't tied up, he'd have a long rope attached so I could keep hold of him while I went to the back to do the bar up, that way if he pulled back it would have enough length that I still had hold of him. The logic with the tying up last is he doesn't learn that pulling back snaps the rope / tie so there's no 'reward' for doing it. Only when he was safely contained and can't pull back would the trailer tie be clipped on.

Thanks for your reply! I am in two minds about whether to teach tie up first or closing the back bars first at the moment so useful to have an alternative idea. Mine is a mix between your two I think. He travels fine, goes on fine, stays on the box when you arrive without panicking (maybe a bit of calling) and unloads fine but there’s something about the initial moment of being “left” on the box & closed in that makes him have a bit of a panic and shoot off. We don’t have front unload but so far similar system - walk on and off, walk on and stay, walk on back off part way & come back on stay then off again etc. and it’s all gone well in 2/3 days I just don’t want to mess up the next stage and go back to square one hence why I’m in two minds about bringing the bar in before or after tying. Once he shoots back I do really struggle to stop him though even on a lunge line

I have thought about a bucket on the breast bar but if he’s stood in a position where it’s comfortable to get his nose in the bucket his back feet are on the ramp so I’m not sure … there is a spot i could try hooking on at the front but then it’s a stretch for his neck … he sounds a very odd shape based on that but he’s not and he definitely does fit in the box

 

[LEC]

Don’t start adding back bars if they are shooting back or tying up. Both are pretty dangerous situations. One for humans and the other for the horse.

Is this about loading by yourself?

With 4yos I always have the front of the trailer open as that keeps them thinking forward and then you can drill holes in the top of a likit/similar lick and add bailer twine and then tie it to the haynet ring or any other place. This gives them reward for standing still. I also attach a lunge line to the headcollar and then walk round to do the back. This is my communication - firstly to tell me if they are going backwards, to add a little pressure if need be and a safety line if get all the way to the back to tell me if I am safe to put the back bar up. I just have it loose in my hand but it’s there to tell me about anything I cannot see. I tend to front unload as a routine so they also think forwards.

 

[Boughtabay]

Don’t start adding back bars if they are shooting back or tying up. Both are pretty dangerous situations. One for humans and the other for the horse.

Is this about loading by yourself?

With 4yos I always have the front of the trailer open as that keeps them thinking forward and then you can drill holes in the top of a likit/similar lick and add bailer twine and then tie it to the haynet ring or any other place. This gives them reward for standing still. I also attach a lunge line to the headcollar and then walk round to do the back. This is my communication - firstly to tell me if they are going backwards, to add a little pressure if need be and a safety line if get all the way to the back to tell me if I am safe to put the back bar up. I just have it loose in my hand but it’s there to tell me about anything I cannot see. I tend to front unload as a routine so they also think forwards.

The trailer does not front unload. the shooting back is exclusively happening when I go to approach adding the bar so that’s the situation I need to address. Love the lick-it idea though will try that!