Trailers and Stability

[Red-1]

Found an interesting video about weight distribution and trailers. It is aimed at people with boats, but was interesting. Seems I was perhaps correct in lashing the water containers in the front.

https://www.facebook.com/dunlaoghairemarina/videos/1471663689527395/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

It does make me wonder if rear facing trailers would be better in general though?

Having had a trailer weave on the motorway when overtaken by a large wagon, downhill, on a windy day, it was a very scary experience, even though it did straighten out. I fitted a stabiliser (which was great), but I wonder how much better it would have been if the configuration for weight distribution was different?

 

[Dry Rot]

Red-1, you mention rear facing trailers.

In theory at least, it shouldn't make any difference! I noticed this when taking long train journeys. A train leaves the station so slowly, it is impossible to tell whether the train your are on, or the one you see next to it out of the window, is moving. Look up Newton's Laws of Motion. A force is only applied when there is a change of speed -- acceleration or decceleration. So, speeding up, braking, and cornering.

But that doesn't seem to be people's experiences. Horses are designed for going forward and it is clear that they don't like backing up as it is often used as a mild form of punishment. So, I assume they find the sensation of braking unpleasant. So, if your horse prefers to travel facing to the rear, the driver would seem to be accelerating too fast?

Sorry, OP, I've hijacked your question, although it is related. The violent weaving of a trailer will be a similar movement to a pendulum. When it has swung over one side, forces come in to play that caused it to swing back again, and so on. That will be exaggerated by the horse also moving in an effort to keep it's balance, which supports the argument for travelling with the partition in...or at least driving with extra caution if it is out. What does the stabiliser do? Dampens the weaving, presumably?

 

[Hanno Verian]

Thats a single axle trailer, it behaves differently to a twin axle, also there was no load shown over the axle only at extreme ends of the trailer.
Despite what we might think a fair amount of effort goes into designing trailers, they are designed to carry their load over the axles, if you add load elsewhere you can upset that delicate balance, don't forget that a 25 gallon jerrycan of water weighs nearly 100Kg, thats a significant weight around about 15-20% of your horses weight, how many of us would take more than one jerrycan per horse for a hot day eventing so that you can wash them off and cool them? I have read that carrying excess weight in the nose of the trailer will unbalance it and lead to snaking, but I can't recall where I read it.
When I'm carrying one horse, I will travel water on the opposite side of the partition ratchet strapped in so that it doesn't move. I would investigate carrying water on the outside of the trailer, but I'm not sure that the sides of trailers these days are strong enough to take that load. I think I would carry water in the back of my 4x4 if I where travelling two rather than in the trailer.
As I've just downsized from a 7 1/2 ton lorry I'd be very interested in how other people organised kit and equipment.

 

[Palindrome]

The best place to carry stuff is in the towing vehicle as the heavier the towing vehicle compared to the trailer the better.
Best not to add weight at the front of the trailer as this weight will be supported by the tow bar (there is a max weight for the tongue/tow bar that is different to the towing weight and much lower). Hanno Verian is correct about the 2 axles making a big difference (the weight of the horses is between the 2 axles so is not supported vertically by the tow bar).

 

[Tory27]

Hmmm this is really interesting. I agree with you Hanno Varian that horse/cattle trailers are designed differently to those towing anything other than horses/livestock. They are designed to carry up to 2.7t in weight much more than that of a caravan or a standard 2 axel trailer.
In my opinion after reading a lot of towing related posts on here recently the issues with a lot of today’s towing is that people want to transport horses as cheaply as possible using towing vehicles insufficient for use driven by persons simply not experienced enough in towing. When I say cheap it seems as though people do not want to pay out for a trailer test - not helped by the reduction in weight licence laws, or tow with decent weight plated towing vehicle. Same as those who stick 2 x 16.2 + horses into a 3.5ton small lorry/van thing and think they’re safe and within the weight limit.
Salesmen want to flog anything and will real off any sales speech they can for you buy a car whether it’s suitable for towing or not.
I’ve always travelled mine forwards facing, I don’t have anything against rear facing trailers. I agree with the above posts, I as human do not like travelling backwards make me feel sick, so why would my horse want to? It’s my opinion and I’m sure my horses would be fine travelling either way. I travel two 16.2’s in a large 2.7t gross trailer. I have permanently fitted in the front of my trailer a water boy jet spray (great piece of kit) that when full holds up to approx. 80l of water. With my two on board plus a pickup full of stuff is quite a weight and I can say I’ve never had any trouble towing. I tow with a 3.5l pickup with a towing weight of 3.5t. I know I’m well within my weight and my car pulls that trailer fully loaded with minimal effort. I never have snaking issues on motorways/duel carriageways but I sit at 60 near as dam it or as safe to do so depending on traffic/surroundings. Lorries are the issue on a motorway. Get caught up in them and yes you’re going to wobble, get past them and your stay balanced and will have a clear open road in front.
I think snaking/wobbling/unbalancing is caused by the driving, the towing vehicle or the trailer layout. The car isn’t man enough for the job so you have to drive harder, the trailer is too lightweight/small for the horse(s) on board or weight is distributed incorrectly, how many people see a single partitioned horse travelling on the left side? That’s a danger strait off. It’s a fact the road naturally dips into the curb/verge so already you are unbalanced. Single or heaviest horse should be travelled on the right to even the distribution. In today’s world there are horse people that sadly are not educated enough in transporting their animals. How often have you been to a show or out hunting and watched men & women try and reverse a trailer….?? What’s wrong with asking professional people for a lesson or some advice? You only have to look at how many people smash up caravans – they are inexperience towers who do not know how to drive carefully.
I know we all have our horse’s best interest & welfare at the highest of our priorities when we transport them which is why we do drive slowly but we need to be safe was well. Being a nervous driver whilst towing is not being safe. If the horse moves don’t panic it will sort itself out. Mine do. If they wobble round corners, go slow they will sort themselves out. Strait lines shouldn’t really be an issue. We have to remember they’re animals and will naturally figure balance out for themselves. Stopping on the side of a busy road/motorway panicking and shouting because they’ve had a stomp is only going to wind them up even more.
Mine love going out the the trailer, soon as they see it pull in the yard there banging the door wanting to go, one of mine loads herself!
I apologise for the long post. I will be watching this thread as I think its going to be interesting reading.
(BTW I don’t claim to be an expert just a normal person sharing her opinion)…

 

[MrsMozart]

I read somewhere that the height of the towbar makes a major difference, which was born out when I bought my trailer. It had manky tyres on it, but okay to get it home with, and it towed beautifully. Once it had proper weight rated tyres on it altered the height and didn't tow nearly as well. If I remember right we did something to either the towbar or the trailer's hitch and then it was better.

Obviously the weight distribution made a difference. It's a three horse (two horse and a pony). We had new breach bars made so when towing just two horses they were more over the axle than the original partition/breech bars allowed.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Vehicles will have a maximum recommended nose weight for towing. It's 140kg for our LWB Shogun, and 80kg for our Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 estate.

Stashing water containers in the front of a trailer is going to increase the nose weight. I always put mine in the towing vehicle.

The advice for loading touring caravans, which are usually single axle, is to put all the heavy stuff over the axle, and the light stuff at the ends (which is common sense, really).
.

 

[Annagain]

I think snaking/wobbling/unbalancing is caused by the driving, the towing vehicle or the trailer layout. The car isn’t man enough for the job so you have to drive harder, the trailer is too lightweight/small for the horse(s) on board or weight is distributed incorrectly, how many people see a single partitioned horse travelling on the left side? That’s a danger strait off. It’s a fact the road naturally dips into the curb/verge so already you are unbalanced. Single or heaviest horse should be travelled on the right to even the distribution.

I agree to a certain extent. I've towed with several different cars (all legally and physically up to the job) and they all tow very differently. My OH's Discovery van (on paper should be one of the best) was terrifying to tow with. There was something about it that made it feel very unstable if I went over 40 (not ideal on a motorway). We changed the height of the towbar and the tyres but it never felt any better. My little Defender 90 on the other hand feels like it's on rails and I'm perfectly happy to tow my two big boys (not far off 1400kg) at 60mph when safe and legal.

However, A has to go on the left of the trailer. Not a problem when they're both on board as M is very slightly heavier (about 30kgs) but he still has to when he's on his own or with a friend's much lighter horse. Having him on the left is not ideal but it's far better than the stumbling, falling and thrashing we get if he's on the right. I always adjust my driving to compensate. I've no idea why it makes a difference to him but it does and I know a lot of horses who are similar (although most prefer the right if they have a preference). Not every driver puts them on the left through ignorance.

 

[milliepops]

However, A has to go on the left of the trailer. Not a problem when they're both on board as M is very slightly heavier (about 30kgs) but he still has to when he's on his own or with a friend's much lighter horse. Having him on the left is not ideal but it's far better than the stumbling, falling and thrashing we get if he's on the right. I always adjust my driving to compensate. I've no idea why it makes a difference to him but it does and I know a lot of horses who are similar (although most prefer the right if they have a preference). Not every driver puts them on the left through ignorance.

Millie is like this. She's generally a very good traveller but for some reason she's best on the left in a trailer.

 

[Red-1]

Red-1, you mention rear facing trailers.

In theory at least, it shouldn't make any difference! I noticed this when taking long train journeys. A train leaves the station so slowly, it is impossible to tell whether the train your are on, or the one you see next to it out of the window, is moving. Look up Newton's Laws of Motion. A force is only applied when there is a change of speed -- acceleration or decceleration. So, speeding up, braking, and cornering.

But that doesn't seem to be people's experiences. Horses are designed for going forward and it is clear that they don't like backing up as it is often used as a mild form of punishment. So, I assume they find the sensation of braking unpleasant. So, if your horse prefers to travel facing to the rear, the driver would seem to be accelerating too fast?

Sorry, OP, I've hijacked your question, although it is related. The violent weaving of a trailer will be a similar movement to a pendulum. When it has swung over one side, forces come in to play that caused it to swing back again, and so on. That will be exaggerated by the horse also moving in an effort to keep it's balance, which supports the argument for travelling with the partition in...or at least driving with extra caution if it is out. What does the stabiliser do? Dampens the weaving, presumably?

Hi, my horse travels fine any which way. I was just trying to think of making trailers most stable, as, although I have a lorry, it worries me how trailers seem OK until a line is crossed and then the situation can quickly become un-recoverable. The video really highlighted to me how a change in weight distribution had such a big effect.

The reason I speak of travelling rear facing is that when travelling forwards they have their weight towards the rear of the trailer, as the front end is mainly space for the head and neck! I was also thinking conventional trailers, where the horses travel low - in between the wheels, as they would seem more inherently stable to me than those where the level of the trailer is higher up. I believe Richardson did some conventional type rear facing trailers in years gone by.

I would love to see a similar test done with a double axle trailer.

As another poster said, when I did have a trailer (25 years ago!) it did make a huge difference what vehicle I towed with even though all were legally within limits.

To answer your question, yes a stabiliser is just a dampening device that dampens the up and down motion of the trailer, as well as the side to side.

 

[stencilface]

Annagain - Having had a snaking trailer and discovery end up both on their sides in an accident, that's interesting what you say about it!

 

[Annagain]

Annagain - Having had a snaking trailer and discovery end up both on their sides in an accident, that's interesting what you say about it!

It was a Discovery 2, the Discovery 3 I also towed with for a while was absolutely fine. I've also towed with a 110 which wasn't that great, but my 90 is fab. The only thing I can think is that both the Disco 2 and the 110 were set up for serious off-roading (OH's hobby) with a winch at the front and a big roof rack so I think they might have altered the weight distribution (the winches in particular are very heavy and right on the car's nose) especially as the Disco was a van so was lighter behind than most others would be.

 

[stencilface]

I don't know what model it was, I wasn't driving but it was about 2006 I think and a new disco. It was pretty terrifying, although both horses were fine. We made the m1 into a queue from Nottingham to Leeds.......

 

[Annagain]

Scary - sounds like it could be a Disco 3 if it was new in 2006 as they came out in late 2005. At least everyone came out unscathed - a bit of a delay is nothing in comparison to the potential outcome.