Training a trotter with "monday morning disease".

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Little megalodonen

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Hi
I am currently riding a trotter (dressage) who is disposable of having monday morning disease. it is not my horse but I can clearly see that there is something wrong now and then. Sometimes he looks like he is very blunt in his eyes, he is not moving forward enough and always sparing his energy whenever he can. He is sometimes very tender and stiff over his back/hind legs.

He is constantly always on the limit for having smaller ones each month. Last blood test said that there was something wrong. He is a very big trotter who loves to work.. He loves to go for walks in the forest and being used in the dressage. He is a quick learner.

Anyone here who got good training tips for what usually works? I know they should not be stressed out, routines, never have a lot off days off and the feeding. I would like to hear others experiences about this. And of course science.
 
Clearly you are concerned and have taken great effort to translate into English (omg I hope I am not wrong here) . Monday morning disease is essentially a problem of the Lymphatic system. Poor lymphatic drainage due to lack of frog pressure and inactivity.The affected leg blows up like a balloon This sounds more like EPSM though it is hard to tell on the available information. What breed is he . Certain breeds are more prone to EPSM. As a start I would review what i am feeding. No simple sugars , mollasses , no cereals. Energy from oils is good . What was the blood test ?
 
Bob notacob said:
Clearly you are concerned and have taken great effort to translate into English (omg I hope I am not wrong here) . Monday morning disease is essentially a problem of the Lymphatic system. Poor lymphatic drainage due to lack of frog pressure and inactivity.The affected leg blows up like a balloon This sounds more like EPSM though it is hard to tell on the available information. What breed is he . Certain breeds are more prone to EPSM. As a start I would review what i am feeding. No simple sugars , mollasses , no cereals. Energy from oils is good . What was the blood test ?
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I am not from England, thats why my English isn't correct but I do not use translate :p As you describe, thats exactly what's happening when he stays inside for a long period of time. When he's outside and have been training his legs are fine. Its not my horse but I have seen this horse gone from fine to being worse to fine again all in one year (riding it for a year now). He's a norwegian warmblood, a trotter.

The problem is: the owner has been in the game for century's and knows "best". The owner is stubborn as hell and does not listen to others. And then I'm here, the horsekeeper thats been around for a year. I haven't told her but last time when I said her horse was lame she blamed the equipment. It ended up in being refused starting competitions until a vet had checked up on him. The blood test was not as they should be. Dont remember what, but the blood test indicated that he could have some sort of mild azoturia. It ended up bein lame in right front and back left. So.. if I can find some science about this topic maybe she'll start listening to me. As I said: I'm only the girl that comes around twice a week.
 
I fully understand your problem .Like your owner ,I too regard a lot of the "new science" with skepticism.But I do take the time to read the research papers. For me Dr Stephanie Valberg in the USA is the leading researcher into Equine polysacharide storage myopathy. EPSM shows as a form of what we used to call Azoturia. Thefailure to metabolise sugars by the muscles (those of the hind quaters ) results in seizure of the muscles and the breakdown of muscle tissue. This will show as azoturia. Go online and read all you can about it. Donttry to tackle your owner head on , be subtle and start with some feeding suggestions based on oils rather than cereals.Edited to add, your English is amazing considering the specialist nature of the subject.
 
My thought is that we should meet new science with a little bit skepticism but always on a normal level considering its a horse we are talking about. All I want is to make the horse better than he is now. Since the horse has been worse in all over conditions and he always goes back to be worse, I think thats a sign enough that its time to at least TRY something else.

As you are referring to EPSM, I have never seen the horse with seizure on the hind quaters. He is usually all the other symptoms; taking short steps, stiff in the hind, unwilling to go forward (the horse do want to train but not use his back). he is never "angry" when ridden. The vet is coming back in a two weeks time and check on him. I will then ask (unfortunately), behind the owners back if she can make her change his diet. I know the feeding isn't containing a lot of sugar but she feeds the horse with 10 other things added on the main feeding. Like dried red beets, electrolytes (a waste if you ask me) and maybe 7 other "spices" as I like to call it. I have never ever in my entire "riding career" seen a horse been fed on so many supplements. About the electrolytes I have been reading that a lot of them is containing a LOT of sugars.
 
Horses with EPSM / PSSM won't necessarily show as seizures on the hind quarters. My mare presents as short steps, stiff in the hind and not wanting to go forward when she is struggling. She has type 1 PSSM.

Electrolytes can be extremely important to horses who tie-up and the quantity of sugar in a normal dose is usually small. If the horse does have PSSM or RER then the list of supplements is likely to get even longer! Vitamin E, magnesium, milk thistle, l-carnitine are all possibles depending on what disease the horse has.

If the vet is returning then please ask if the test for PSSM type 1 can be taken. If that is positive then you can make dietary changes with confidence, if negative then likely RER or PSSM type 2 in which case there are some subtle differences.

In the meantime hoses which tie-up need to be kept warm, fed low sugar / starch (grass is often a problem) and be in gentle daily exercise.
 
Exactly what the horse presents as well. He does go forward but not enough to collect himself better from behind when ridden. As for the speed training when trotting his back looks like its not even. I might not have said it but he sure was lame in front right and back left. And the new hay that the stable got was H1 hay with a lot of proteins.

Last year the weather was very bad in Norway (dryness) so the second harvested grass has turned out be a H1 hay with proteins up to 208%. For the horse, who is an athlete, its a too strong hay for him. Im gonna check the declaration of the electrolytes. When I checked it online some of the electrolytes contained 64% of sugar (glukose). I've read that adding salt to the diet can be as useful as electrolytes. He does not sweat a lot unless he has done a competition.

As for the different types, correct me if I'm wrong, seems like the diet is based on the same? Low on carbohydrates, sugar but a diet that contains a lot of fat (oils) and supplements like E and B vitamins.
 
Bob notacob said:
Clearly you are concerned and have taken great effort to translate into English (omg I hope I am not wrong here) . Monday morning disease is essentially a problem of the Lymphatic system. Poor lymphatic drainage due to lack of frog pressure and inactivity.The affected leg blows up like a balloon This sounds more like EPSM though it is hard to tell on the available information. What breed is he . Certain breeds are more prone to EPSM. As a start I would review what i am feeding. No simple sugars , mollasses , no cereals. Energy from oils is good . What was the blood test ?
Click to expand...
Bob Notacob: I asked the owner. I don't have the numbers but the blood test the vet checked was "Asat" and CK" in the blood. Is this the same "word/phrase" that is used all over the world? The Ck test, the muscle enzyme was OK. The ASAt test showes changes in the liver and muscle enzyme that indicates muscle injuries.
 
Last status: the vet checked up on him today again. He was much better and loose in his back. His movement was floating much better. He is still lame in his right front joint and left back knee. She will be coming back in a two weeks time to check up again. Meanwhile he is going to stay inside for two days and after that he will be walking longer trails :)
 
It was the same last time as well. But looked better this time. He got injected for the second time and the vet will be back in two weeks again. Until then: a lot of trail walking :) He hasn't been stumbling a lot recently.
 
Last vet check today. he is no more lame in his legs :D The vet said he was moving freely with his shoulders, he had a swung in his back and overall looked more loose. She thought he looked more healthier in his eyes/body and also had gotten more muscular in his back. He is still a little bit tender in his back, especially in his left hip. So we are going to do some stretching everyday on that side (she had done that to other clients before and had good results with it). And of course long trail rides in the terrain so he uses his back more correctly.

I am now more than ever in my belief that a horse should always have the opportunity to walk in rough terrain no matter what the horse do. So much benefits from it. He does surely act more like a 7 year old than a 15 year old horse. He looks so happy:D
 
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