Training aids for more consistent contact and nicer outline?!?!

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GreenEyedMonster

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Recommended training aids to achieve a rounder outline, consistent contact and better engagement of hindlegs?

Tried spurs: made things worse
Martingale: did very little and can't be used for dressage

Ruled out any ill fitting tack, back issues or teeth problems.

Nothing too harsh but must do the job?
 
Lots of lessons to make sure you are riding correctly and lots of work to to build the muscles to allow the horse to be able to be in an outline. Stretches and in hand work to make sure your horse in nice and flexible and bendy
 
Thank you for replying.
Until recently I had been having weekly lessons on the flat to achieve the heel hip shoulder line and to help keep my leg on.
For various reasons I could not take the aforementioned horse so was not able to progress with him, I must be doing something right as the muscles have built up a lot in his neck into a lovely curve even when he is at rest and he has a nice topline usually.
Surely one of the available training aids might help?
 
i have been riding my ex racer in an Ann rees balancing rein. i have been using it with instructors help as he tended to throw everything away in upward transitions and after months of working with nothing we gave this a go and its done wonders. however it won't engage back end anymore, that's all about riding.

i began using every time i schooled for few months and now only use once- twice a week he has had it on since October. i do however take it off one week a moth to assess how he is doing.
 
Dizzydancer said:
i have been riding my ex racer in an Ann rees balancing rein. i have been using it with instructors help as he tended to throw everything away in upward transitions and after months of working with nothing we gave this a go and its done wonders. however it won't engage back end anymore, that's all about riding.

i began using every time i schooled for few months and now only use once- twice a week he has had it on since October. i do however take it off one week a moth to assess how he is doing.
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Thank you for replying
That sounds like one to try, I'll go and google!
 
I have in the past used an Abbott Davis balancing rein but it is certainly no substitute for correct riding and most gadgets unless used properly with the correct riding are worse than useless and are often quite damaging So I would agree with those that say more schooling and lessons I am afraid
 
Thank you for replying
I understand what you mean, I am on a yard where my horse is on full livery and his groom is very experienced so on hand to tell me if it isn't working.
I've been trying for two years to get him to settle but if he has a patch of not being ridden it all goes out the window. I want to try an artificial aid to help and of course it won't be a permanent method, I was thinking to try it for 6 weeks maximum and thoroughly ask and research methods of correct use and fitting.
 
Unfortunately there isn't a gadget that does the job of proper riding; if there was we'd all be Carl Hester and out horses would all be called something like "Valegro". Sorry.
 
Thank you all for the suggestions and answers.
I have come to three options now:
1. Harry Dabbs dragonfly reins (supposed to aid balance)
2. Draw reins (as I can alter their "strength" as I please)
3. Just not bother, as many of you said it just takes a good rider and if that's the case I must not be one of them after three years of trying! Haha!
 
Even in walk? I started off with walk halt transitions and shorter steps in walk.

I'm a Physio and when teaching exercises to people I've got to start with something easy enough. So if I have to go back to basics and what seem like ridiculously easy exercises then so be it. Same with training horses.

If he's that tense I'm not sure how a training aid will help as its just masking the symptoms not treating the cause ie the horse is unbalanced. I applied the advice in that threat to my share horse. She is now seeking a contact and we no longer fight and leave the arena at speed!!!

And are you balanced. Read Sally swift centred riding. Great book that's really helped me!! We've all been trying for years. And years and years lol. I really am in the same boat as you, but I've recently (since Christmas) realised there us no quick fix. Read this thread of mine especially mike007's response. It hit a raw nerve, but made me rethink!!!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?650804-An-unbiased-opinion
 
atlantis said:
Even in walk? I started off with walk halt transitions and shorter steps in walk.

I'm a Physio and when teaching exercises to people I've got to start with something easy enough. So if I have to go back to basics and what seem like ridiculously easy exercises then so be it. Same with training horses.

If he's that tense I'm not sure how a training aid will help as its just masking the symptoms not treating the cause ie the horse is unbalanced. I applied the advice in that threat to my share horse. She is now seeking a contact and we no longer fight and leave the arena at speed!!!

And are you balanced. Read Sally swift centred riding. Great book that's really helped me!! We've all been trying for years. And years and years lol. I really am in the same boat as you, but I've recently (since Christmas) realised there us no quick fix. Read this thread of mine especially mike007's response. It hit a raw nerve, but made me rethink!!!

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?650804-An-unbiased-opinion
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Think you very much, I'll see about getting that book.
Sorry I didn't make myself very clear, he is an angel in walk! And strangely at shows is very very good, he will behave just the way I want him to away from home but he knows he doesn't necessarily have a duty to perform at home so fannies about, it s after we've done a couple of minutes trot that he starts to play up, he anticipates cantering though we have done very little of it in the last few months! If we do anything such as leg yield it all becomes too interesting and he wants to canter or be silly. I'll try the lateral work to improve his balance as before we did very little of it and maybe this summer I can afford a lesson or two!
Thank you again, very good advice!
 
paulineh said:
GreenEyedMonster You ask about an aid to help you and everyone has said lessons.

The only aid I would use is an Equiami http://www.equiami.com/ I would not use draw reins as you are forcing a horse into an outline..
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Like I said, I can't afford regular lessons and do not have the time until the summer, I agree that lessons would be he most beneficial but I just don't have the money!
I am taking everyone's opinions into consideration before I buy anything, but it's hard to rely solely on natural aids when I am an amateur without mirrors or someone on the ground to watch me.
 
We are soooo in the same boat. Can you rig up a video at all. (I use my iPhone balanced on the school fence lol).

Your horse sounds like my mare. I found this last few weeks that if I give her regular breaks she has a good stretch at the buckle end and then I can do a bit more again, still mainly walk and trot. She gets s break every 6 or 7 mins (from Sylvia Loch) I come back to walk if she gets unsettled and only trot if she's balanced. If she starts to speed up and won't come back with a half halt then its back to walk and rebalance. That's working well and she is staying balanced at trot for longer and we've even tried some canter (😱) for a half circle at a time and this last session she's not ranked off in canter expecting to go hunting or jump lol!!! Even started to add a few lateral steps, leg yeild on a circle mainly, in trot too without her shooting off!!!

Slowly slowly with no lessons as no money and a wonky video from the floor lol.
 
atlantis said:
We are soooo in the same boat. Can you rig up a video at all. (I use my iPhone balanced on the school fence lol).

Your horse sounds like my mare. I found this last few weeks that if I give her regular breaks she has a good stretch at the buckle end and then I can do a bit more again, still mainly walk and trot. She gets s break every 6 or 7 mins (from Sylvia Loch) I come back to walk if she gets unsettled and only trot if she's balanced. If she starts to speed up and won't come back with a half halt then its back to walk and rebalance. That's working well and she is staying balanced at trot for longer and we've even tried some canter (��) for a half circle at a time and this last session she's not ranked off in canter expecting to go hunting or jump lol!!! Even started to add a few lateral steps, leg yeild on a circle mainly, in trot too without her shooting off!!!

Slowly slowly with no lessons as no money and a wonky video from the floor lol.
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Yes they do sound alike! He loves to stretch, I'm sure we'd score some good marks for our FWLR if we ever get round to doing a test, he'd have his nose to the ground if I let him!
Which makes it hard for people to understand why he is so tense the rest of the time!

Tried with the old iPhone but it was too embarrassing when the yard owner came into the school to ride with a small crowd to watch her and I looked like a little kid doing a youtube video!
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
Like I said, I can't afford regular lessons and do not have the time until the summer, I agree that lessons would be he most beneficial but I just don't have the money!
I am taking everyone's opinions into consideration before I buy anything, but it's hard to rely solely on natural aids when I am an amateur without mirrors or someone on the ground to watch me.
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What I meant when I said everyone was saying lessons was is that the way they think it should go. I use both the lunging and the ridden Equiami and find it is very uasful. Other aids do not give the horse the give and take that you need to get a nice outline.

When in the school I use a lot of change of direction, half halts , circles and serpentines.These all keep the horse concentrating
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
Thank you all for the suggestions and answers.
I have come to three options now:
1. Harry Dabbs dragonfly reins (supposed to aid balance)
2. Draw reins (as I can alter their "strength" as I please)
3. Just not bother, as many of you said it just takes a good rider and if that's the case I must not be one of them after three years of trying! Haha!
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Erm, three years is not actually very long at all.......I've been at it nearly 50 and still learn something every time I ride. You need an instructor, patience, knowledge. Doesn't sound like you have any of these..............
 
I had already mentioned my limited funds for lessons at this time of year in other comments, I do not have the time to commit to regular lessons at the moment either. I have been patient, and there is nothing wrong with trying new techniques and I am learning, which is contributing to my knowledge, you don't know everything straight away or I would never have started the thread.
If you aren't willing to say anything friendly then I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the thread, I was asking for advice from mature and understanding people, as you do not seem to fit this category then please don't reply to the question.
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
I had already mentioned my limited funds for lessons at this time of year in other comments, I do not have the time to commit to regular lessons at the moment either. I have been patient, and there is nothing wrong with trying new techniques and I am learning, which is contributing to my knowledge, you don't know everything straight away or I would never have started the thread.
If you aren't willing to say anything friendly then I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the thread, I was asking for advice from mature and understanding people, as you do not seem to fit this category then please don't reply to the question.
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I am sorry, but if you don't have time to commit then perhaps owning a horse isn't the right thing for you at the moment. By all means go ahead and ride, but you and your horse will only progress together when you can invest time, energy and most likely money in the form of instruction. There is no magic short cut to having a horse in the 'correct' outline. I'd like to be friendly, but it takes two to tango. It would however be interesting to see a photo of you on your horse so we could have a greater appreciation of your issues. :)
 
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nikicb said:
I am sorry, but if you don't have time to commit then perhaps owning a horse isn't the right thing for you at the moment. By all means go ahead and ride, but you and your horse will only progress together when you can invest time, energy and most likely money in the form of instruction. There is no magic short cut to having a horse in the 'correct' outline. I'd like to be friendly, but it takes two to tango. It would however be interesting to see a photo of you on your horse so we could have a greater appreciation of your issues. :)
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No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
I will try and get a picture up...
 
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GreenEyedMonster said:
No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
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I'm confused as to how you have time to ride and play about with gadgets, but not to have a lesson...

It isn't a question of people being more understanding - it is a question of you listening to the advice you have been given which is almost unanimous. Gadgets do not magically make horses work correctly, well trained riders who invest time and effort in their education do.
 
JFTD said:
I'm confused as to how you have time to ride and play about with gadgets, but not to have a lesson...

It isn't a question of people being more understanding - it is a question of you listening to the advice you have been given which is almost unanimous. Gadgets do not magically make horses work correctly, well trained riders who invest time and effort in their education do.
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If you read her posts a little more carefully then you will see that it is the funds she is missing for lessons, not time. It's all very well and good for us as adults to be able to pay for lessons, but OP is 16 so whilst she has a Saturday job presumably she is also relying on her parents somewhat.
 
JFTD said:
I'm confused as to how you have time to ride and play about with gadgets, but not to have a lesson...

It isn't a question of people being more understanding - it is a question of you listening to the advice you have been given which is almost unanimous. Gadgets do not magically make horses work correctly, well trained riders who invest time and effort in their education do.
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The time I do spend is spent trying to iron out problems that keep reoccurring after they seem to have gone away, lessons would cost money and involve me driving to their homes/yards because of where I live.
I know it is confusing but if you were in my situation you would understand it isn't going to take long to know if he doesn't like any gadgets I try and if he doesn't like them I will take them off, simple as. I just wanted to know what people might recommend should I try something...
I'm not planning on trying every possible aid there is, nor do I plan on playing about with them, he'll either take to it or he won't, I'm not going to force him am I?
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
I will try and get a picture up...
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So just enjoy him as he is at the moment. I completely understand about the pressure of GCSEs - my older son did them last year. You need time time to relax with your horse so just hack out and do fun things. Then when you are ready get some lessons and work on how he is going.
 
GreenEyedMonster said:
No one has to invest money in lessons to own a horse, nor should me asking for advice on artificial aids be and excuse not to own him.
I am at school from 8:20am - 6pm during the week and work on Saturdays, my GCSEs are in 9 weeks, so this lack of time is only temporary so I would appreciate it if people would be more understanding?
He is well cared for and happy and healthy, so my lack of time is only an issue regards the extent of training I have...
Click to expand...

I think it would be in the best interests of both you and the horse to give him a break from schooling until you've finished your exams, and can devote some time and thought into working him correctly. Artificial aids will do nothing but force your horse into a false outline. Some have their uses, but only in very experienced hands, to address specific training issues. Your issue is not a training one, but a lack of experience. That will come, and it will come faster if you don't fall into the trap of using gadgets as a short cut. You are at the stage where you think you are an experienced rider, but you will look back on this period when you have a few more years under your belt, and realise how little you know. It sounds to me like your horse isn't particularly educated, and you are not yet skilled enough to improve a horse. It's a "blind leading the blind" scenario, and this won't improve until you are in a position to get some help from an instructor. The best thing you could do is to take some lessons on a schoolmaster, to give you an idea of what it should feel like. Then you will understand the difference between working a horse correctly, and using gadgets to create a false impression of correctness.

On another note - I understand that you are young, but you would do well to remember your manners when speaking to adults. One person you have been rude to on this thread is an extremely well regarded trainer, who could probably help you immensely if you were gracious enough to accept politely the advice she gave. I have a son the same age as you, so I understand the teenage mind, but to be frank, if my son spoke to adults the way you have on here, he would be in serious trouble.
 
Broke_But_Happy said:
If you read her posts a little more carefully then you will see that it is the funds she is missing for lessons, not time. It's all very well and good for us as adults to be able to pay for lessons, but OP is 16 so whilst she has a Saturday job presumably she is also relying on her parents somewhat.
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If you read her posts you would have observed repeated references to time as well as funds. Lessons can be saved for out of the money the OP need not waste on gadgets. (a couple of gadgets = 1 lesson round here)
 
JFTD said:
If you read her posts you would have observed repeated references to time as well as funds. Lessons can be saved for out of the money the OP need not waste on gadgets. (a couple of gadgets = 1 lesson round here)
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Boxing to another yard is not like having a 1/2 hour - hour lesson though is it? Hence the time constraints :)
 
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