Training aids for more consistent contact and nicer outline?!?!

paulineh said:
I have just had a thought. One of mine really does not like working in the school, he will do but is not that happy. I have done a lot of my schooling while out on hacks. There is a great book that shows you how to use hacks as schooling sessions. The book is called "Schooling as you Hack"

I may have missed it but have you had his back and saddle checked. If he is resisting you he could be in pain.

Plain lunging getting him to work long and low so that he stretches his neck and back will help him.
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Yes I lunged him last night and have decided I will continue to do that before I ride now just to get him warmed up properly and will have a look at that book! He is having his back checked ASAP and I spoke to his last owner who said he pretends he doesn't understand if you leave it for a while before going back to something!
 
Just to inform you that following all the comments when I first posted this thread, I have since par taken in a dressage competition where everything went swimmingly until we reached the ring itself and the atmosphere was so spooky and windy the poor chap decided it would be best to just canter the entire thing with additional spooks.
Our jumping has improved and it seems the issue was a sensitive mouth and a lack of patience...
So basically, thanks for all your help, I hope to get out doing more dressage soon!
 
Well done for taking things on board I am sorry the dressage test didn't work out but I am sure with time and schooling it will get better and better. Your boy sounds like one I teach and the circling exercise worked really well for him. I am sure once the balance and acceptance of leg and hand come he will rapidly improve. He sounds like the boy I teach who runs through as an evasion he is ostensibly lazy but uses running away for avoiding actually working as running through is easier than lifting and carrying himself
 
OP - from your description of what is happening I am going to suggest a training aid.
Get a thin neckstrap.
When you want to ride a downward transition apply all the aids with your body without touching the rein then simply apply backward pressure to the neckstrap. You will find the horse will respond to this without fighting. Using this method you will teach your horse to respond to aids from your body thus avoiding the tension created by the bit.
I can not lay claim to this gadget and its use. It's a technique taught to me by Chris Bartle. If you dont know who he is a quick google will fill in the blanks.
As far as other gadgets are concerned I'm with the majority on here. From experience (old and grey) I have learnt that those who need the gadget dont have the experience to use them properly. Those that do have the experience to use them dont generally need them. :)
 
Quick thought - I get very stressed schooling at home as I want everything 'at once' which makes the horse stressed, and me more stressed as unsurprisingly it isn't going like Valegro. I much better with someone on the ground as I'm concentrating on them and not the horse but due to funds etc etc it's not something I can do all the time!

Have you considered trying some of these downloadable lessons?! They're a fraction of the price of a normal lesson, you pop them onto your ipod and off you go. It's like having someone on the ground so I don't get as stressed and as a result the horse goes better.

In addition, when schooling, what happens if you aim for just one thing? Ie: not wanting horse uphill, engaged and doing extended trots like a GP schoolmaster, but just concentrating on one thing, such as staying supple (even if just in walk!). I also try and layout a very set routine, so I know that my schooling sessions start with 10 minutes long and low, then a walk/trot/canter on both reins, then my 'schooling' session is only 15 minutes with a specific exercise in mind. I also try and keep everything very positive in my head so lots of verbal praise as it also calms me down.

I know I've portrayed myself as a hugely nervous novice but if you're anything like me, due to exams (I'm at uni) you feel pressured that the horse MUST go well and as a result it goes horribly. Where are you based? PM me any progress!
 
rotters13 said:
Quick thought - I get very stressed schooling at home as I want everything 'at once' which makes the horse stressed, and me more stressed as unsurprisingly it isn't going like Valegro. I much better with someone on the ground as I'm concentrating on them and not the horse but due to funds etc etc it's not something I can do all the time!

Have you considered trying some of these downloadable lessons?! They're a fraction of the price of a normal lesson, you pop them onto your ipod and off you go. It's like having someone on the ground so I don't get as stressed and as a result the horse goes better.

In addition, when schooling, what happens if you aim for just one thing? Ie: not wanting horse uphill, engaged and doing extended trots like a GP schoolmaster, but just concentrating on one thing, such as staying supple (even if just in walk!). I also try and layout a very set routine, so I know that my schooling sessions start with 10 minutes long and low, then a walk/trot/canter on both reins, then my 'schooling' session is only 15 minutes with a specific exercise in mind. I also try and keep everything very positive in my head so lots of verbal praise as it also calms me down.

I know I've portrayed myself as a hugely nervous novice but if you're anything like me, due to exams (I'm at uni) you feel pressured that the horse MUST go well and as a result it goes horribly. Where are you based? PM me any progress!
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I'm up on the derbyshire/staffordshire border so quite far from civilisation ;)
I've realised recently that it's best to keep the schooling to only doing things to he point where he gets bored or naughty, not of fear but because that way he is more willing when we get back into the school again.

I do talk to him a lot whether were jumping at a show or just on the school, but yes I do feel everything has to happen at once so that must be where things are going wrong!

Those downloadable lessons sound brilliant! What are they called and are they on the App Store?
 
PaddyMonty said:
OP - from your description of what is happening I am going to suggest a training aid.
Get a thin neckstrap.
When you want to ride a downward transition apply all the aids with your body without touching the rein then simply apply backward pressure to the neckstrap. You will find the horse will respond to this without fighting. Using this method you will teach your horse to respond to aids from your body thus avoiding the tension created by the bit.
I can not lay claim to this gadget and its use. It's a technique taught to me by Chris Bartle. If you dont know who he is a quick google will fill in the blanks.
As far as other gadgets are concerned I'm with the majority on here. From experience (old and grey) I have learnt that those who need the gadget dont have the experience to use them properly. Those that do have the experience to use them dont generally need them. :)
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That's something I might try today! We've realised he has an incredibly sensitive mouth so I'm hoping to buy a good quality loose ring snaffle, possible the Team Up snaffle by Neue Schule so if I move my hands it doesn't bother him as much as his hanging cheek snaffle might.
Thanks
 
There's so much choice with bits, it's just a case of playing around until horse likes something. Is there anyone who could lend you a loose ring to try, before buying an expensive one? Maybe the bit bank?

I sympathise with you on the dressage test...my first one was *supposed* to be walk and trot... :)
 
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GreenEyedMonster said:
That's something I might try today! We've realised he has an incredibly sensitive mouth so I'm hoping to buy a good quality loose ring snaffle, possible the Team Up snaffle by Neue Schule so if I move my hands it doesn't bother him as much as his hanging cheek snaffle might.
Thanks
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What is the reasoning there? If anything the hanging cheek will 'hold' the bit up in the mouth and more still - that's the point of the design. A loose ring multiple joint is about the most 'mobile' bit you can get, especially used with a accession. Obviously many horses go very well in them if a horse is fussy about things moving around in his mouth that will be even more of an issue. Although that's not related to sensitivity - a horse can be fussy and unreactive, or still and super sensitive, and many variations in between.

Sorry to hear you show was a bit hairy but glad things are coming along. :)
 
rotters13 said:
In addition, when schooling, what happens if you aim for just one thing? Ie: not wanting horse uphill, engaged and doing extended trots like a GP schoolmaster, but just concentrating on one thing, such as staying supple (even if just in walk!). I also try and layout a very set routine, so I know that my schooling sessions start with 10 minutes long and low, then a walk/trot/canter on both reins, then my 'schooling' session is only 15 minutes with a specific exercise in mind. I also try and keep everything very positive in my head so lots of verbal praise as it also calms me down.
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I think this is really good advice actually. If I go into the school without a plan, I usually end up with things going wrong as I don't know what I'm aiming for. I have to structure my sessions, and I have to set small goals, not a big, vague goal. A bit like at work when they set my objectives, they are all measurable, so I try to use the same principle with the horse. I want to work on and try to achieve X, Y and Z, which are all small things but measurable, then horse gets praise for doing lots of small things. If I don't set markers and goals like that, I get frustrated with stresses him out. Last night we worked on quality transitions from walk up into trot, and back down again. Loads and loads of them. Then the same trot to canter, and forwards back into trot instead of collapsing. When I concentrate on seemingly little things like that, funnily enough the big stuff (like "he's not listening/ concentrating" etc) falls into place. I find it better to go in with a plan of working on our transitions, or our SI in walk, or shallow loops in canter, or figure 8s/ serpentines with changes of pace etc, than think about him "not going softly enough". The latter is too vague, though it's easily done.
 
chestnut cob said:
I think this is really good advice actually. If I go into the school without a plan, I usually end up with things going wrong as I don't know what I'm aiming for. I have to structure my sessions, and I have to set small goals, not a big, vague goal. A bit like at work when they set my objectives, they are all measurable, so I try to use the same principle with the horse. I want to work on and try to achieve X, Y and Z, which are all small things but measurable, then horse gets praise for doing lots of small things. If I don't set markers and goals like that, I get frustrated with stresses him out. Last night we worked on quality transitions from walk up into trot, and back down again. Loads and loads of them. Then the same trot to canter, and forwards back into trot instead of collapsing. When I concentrate on seemingly little things like that, funnily enough the big stuff (like "he's not listening/ concentrating" etc) falls into place. I find it better to go in with a plan of working on our transitions, or our SI in walk, or shallow loops in canter, or figure 8s/ serpentines with changes of pace etc, than think about him "not going softly enough". The latter is too vague, though it's easily done.
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Very good advice.

One point to add, move on in a session when you achieve IMPROVEMENT don't keep pushing for x number of perfect repeats. I often see people ruin all their good work in a session wanting 'one more' when the horse has done its best and is tired, or, worse, the rider is too tired to ask well and support the horse properly. You don't have to finish but move on to something the horse does easily and well, or do some fitness work or similar
 
TarrSteps said:
Very good advice.

One point to add, move on in a session when you achieve IMPROVEMENT don't keep pushing for x number of perfect repeats. I often see people ruin all their good work in a session wanting 'one more' when the horse has done its best and is tired, or, worse, the rider is too tired to ask well and support the horse properly. You don't have to finish but move on to something the horse does easily and well, or do some fitness work or similar
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Yes, and also praise when the horse *tries*, which IME makes him more likely to want to try again. My little horse learns v quickly - if he gets a small acknowledgement that he tried, he will try a little bit harder next time. I have to try hard to recognise his little tries and to make sure I reward them quickly enough, even if it is just a tiny soften of the inside rein or something like that. It's really easy to get carried away with always wanting more, I do it, so I have to make a conscious effort to look for when he tries instead of wanting the finished article now. Also think it's worth finding out what your horse responds to - I try my best to mix in the stuff that really makes him think or he finds hard, with things he finds easy. So we might do a few circles with the transitions like I mentioned then move onto some canter work, which is his most favourite thing in the world, whether that be cantering in half seat for a couple of laps, or playing with various figures in canter. Then back to the thing he finds hard, or something else to make him think.

I would also say that it's worth thinking less about what the horse is doing, and more about what is my body doing, what aids am I giving and are they correct etc. I have a terrible habit of throwing away my inside rein on the right, so I spent did some work on that y'day and when I consciously think about what I'm doing with it, and analyse my riding, the horse automatically improves underneath you.
 
chestnut cob said:
Yes, and also praise when the horse *tries*, which IME makes him more likely to want to try again. My little horse learns v quickly - if he gets a small acknowledgement that he tried, he will try a little bit harder next time. I have to try hard to recognise his little tries and to make sure I reward them quickly enough, even if it is just a tiny soften of the inside rein or something like that. It's really easy to get carried away with always wanting more, I do it, so I have to make a conscious effort to look for when he tries instead of wanting the finished article now. Also think it's worth finding out what your horse responds to - I try my best to mix in the stuff that really makes him think or he finds hard, with things he finds easy. So we might do a few circles with the transitions like I mentioned then move onto some canter work, which is his most favourite thing in the world, whether that be cantering in half seat for a couple of laps, or playing with various figures in canter. Then back to the thing he finds hard, or something else to make him think.

I would also say that it's worth thinking less about what the horse is doing, and more about what is my body doing, what aids am I giving and are they correct etc. I have a terrible habit of throwing away my inside rein on the right, so I spent did some work on that y'day and when I consciously think about what I'm doing with it, and analyse my riding, the horse automatically improves underneath you.
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Very true. I tighten the back of one thigh and draw up the heel (I do other things as well, of course, but this fundamentally affects my base of support). If i'm seeing tension in the work I check that first and it's often the cause.
 
Sounds like you have a lot on at the moment. Maybe you should give yourself and the horse a wee break until after your exams then start regular lessons with a qualified instructor. Personally I think riding is more about quality than quantity. I would rather have a lesson then practice my 'homework' a couple of time a week than ride day in day out and never feel like I getting anywhere. Maybe you could sacrifice in other areas to afford lessons? Group lessons might out cheaper and riding clubs offer inexpensive tuition (IME)

My main point is; don't struggle away on your own. You will be amazed how lessons will help- and it sounds like you need help and are grasping at straws by hoping that training aids will solve your problems. They wont, and are likely to be counter productive. Good luck with your exams & best wishes.
 
Auslander said:
I think it would be in the best interests of both you and the horse to give him a break from schooling until you've finished your exams, and can devote some time and thought into working him correctly. Artificial aids will do nothing but force your horse into a false outline. Some have their uses, but only in very experienced hands, to address specific training issues. Your issue is not a training one, but a lack of experience. That will come, and it will come faster if you don't fall into the trap of using gadgets as a short cut. You are at the stage where you think you are an experienced rider, but you will look back on this period when you have a few more years under your belt, and realise how little you know. It sounds to me like your horse isn't particularly educated, and you are not yet skilled enough to improve a horse. It's a "blind leading the blind" scenario, and this won't improve until you are in a position to get some help from an instructor. The best thing you could do is to take some lessons on a schoolmaster, to give you an idea of what it should feel like. Then you will understand the difference between working a horse correctly, and using gadgets to create a false impression of correctness.

On another note - I understand that you are young, but you would do well to remember your manners when speaking to adults. One person you have been rude to on this thread is an extremely well regarded trainer, who could probably help you immensely if you were gracious enough to accept politely the advice she gave. I have a son the same age as you, so I understand the teenage mind, but to be frank, if my son spoke to adults the way you have on here, he would be in serious trouble.
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Complete and utter sense - every word! Take a break OP it will do you and your horse the world of good!
 
Hi OP.....is your YO, the 1 star rider you have currently riding your horse, not able to help you/teach you on the yard where you are at full livery without having to box away?

If money is tight I would forget new bits and put money to a lesson with the above person; maybe supplement the money by 'working' for your lesson.....offer to clean tack, poo pick whatever.

Good luck
 
Am I right in thinking op you have only been riding for three years and you have had your horse for two of these few years, does this mean you only had lessons for one year?
It takes many years to become a competent rider and you never get there, a balanced seat to all but a very lucky few takes about 5 years to develop , you really do need regular lessons to progress.
Preferably on these early stages a schoolmaster!
 
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