Training 'on your bed'

Lady La La

Lady La La

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So, I've given up trying to undo the bad habits I have allowed my two dogs to get into in terms of barking when the door knocks, and getting over excited.
I've tried to undo it, and train them to stay quiet, but I'm failing miserably and the baby is due in 7 weeks time.
Instead, I have bought a doorbell and I'm trying to train them to put themselves on their beds in the kitchen at the sound of the bell.

Currently they don't know what a doorbell is, and so are not yet associating it with the arrival of people... so it is much easier to establish a calm reaction from them initially. I guess the plan is eventually for them to hear the bell, put themselves in their cages calmly and then I can shut them in, and answer the door. We plan to ring the bell intermittently ourselves too, so that they don't fall into the same habits, in terms of associating that noise with visitors all the time.

I realise I probably sound mental :o but anyway, I am currently standing in the kitchen with Tyson, pressing the bell and then saying 'on your bed' then treating him once he is in his cage. OH is doing the same thing at the same time with Bryony. We've been doing this for a couple of days now, but they dont seem to be associating the bell with the action, last night I tried just ringing the bell without saying 'on your bed' and they both sat there looking confused, until I told them 'on your bed.'
Is it just that I haven't been doing it long enough for them to be associating the bell with the bed yet, or should I be training this a different way?
 
Keep going- they are getting "on your bed" so at some point hopefully a light bulb will come on and they'll go ............ "Oh that noise means go to your bed"
 
lexiedhb said:
Keep going- they are getting "on your bed" so at some point hopefully a light bulb will come on and they'll go ............ "Oh that noise means go to your bed"
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So just keep repeating what we're already doing over and over?
They already knew the 'on your bed' command so I guess it might take some time for them to associate the bell noise with something they have another command for.
 
Sounds good, but I'd switch it around - so say 'on your bed', then, as he is moving in that direction (just as he actually arrives there), ring the bell so he comes to associate the sound with actually doing the desired action.:)
 
Spudlet said:
Sounds good, but I'd switch it around - so say 'on your bed', then, as he is moving in that direction (just as he actually arrives there), ring the bell so he comes to associate the sound with actually doing the desired action.:)
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Ah ok, so tell them on your bed, then as they are going into their cages, press the bell? How long should I keep this up for before I start just pressing the bell?
Tyson cottons on to things pretty quick but Bryony really does need it spelling out for her, bless her :o
 
Keep going until you're sure they've got it, then do it some more, then try it out and if it doesn't work, keep on going with the words and the bell:) It takes several hundred repetitions for a dog to make an association like this, so don't be tempted to rush;) It is just like teaching a sit using lure and reward - you lift the treat, the pup sits because when the nose goes up, the bum goes down, and as the bum hits the floor, you say 'sit', so sit = bum hitting floor = nice reward for the puppy.

What you could also do to help things along, is feed them in their cages - so let them see you put the food into the cage (maybe get your OH to hold onto them so they don't mug you as you put it in!), then when released they will naturally go in, and you can press the bell as they head over because they'll want to do it whether you ask them to or not - so bell = cage = dinner in their brains;)

ETA also watch them when you can, and when they go into the crates of their own accord, press the bell and reward them - again, all building an association with the bell, the crate, and good things happening.
 
Spudlet said:
Keep going until you're sure they've got it, then do it some more, then try it out and if it doesn't work, keep on going with the words and the bell:) It takes several hundred repetitions for a dog to make an association like this, so don't be tempted to rush;) It is just like teaching a sit using lure and reward - you lift the treat, the pup sits because when the nose goes up, the bum goes down, and as the bum hits the floor, you say 'sit', so sit = bum hitting floor = nice reward for the puppy.

What you could also do to help things along, is feed them in their cages - so let them see you put the food into the cage (maybe get your OH to hold onto them so they don't mug you as you put it in!), then when released they will naturally go in, and you can press the bell as they head over because they'll want to do it whether you ask them to or not - so bell = cage = dinner in their brains;)
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Makes perfect sense, thank you :)
All going well, we've got seven weeks to crack it, so hopefully we will get there. They are so much easier to keep calm, sane and quiet when they are in their cages and visitors come round, and I'm hoping the more it happens, the less they will even bother to care.
 
Well, their crates are their own little den spaces, they know they can go in there and be safe, and not have to worry about what the visitors might be getting up to. They can relax and chill out and let you deal with it, which is as it should be:)

You'll have to take a video when they crack it, I have a few of Henry after having had various lightbulb moments and although they are terrible quality (because holding the phone and training at the same time never works:o), they make me very proud:)

ETA one more thing - remember that once they've cracked it you may find that you have to go back a step for a short time when you fit the bell to the door, as they'll have to deal with someone being at the door (rather than doing this with nobody outside as I assume is the case at the moment), and if that has a strong association for them with the action of barking and so on, they'll have to overcome that in order to do the new thing of going to their beds. So don't worry if you do find that to be the case, just take things back a step for a bit.
 
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Spudlet said:
Well, their crates are their own little den spaces, they know they can go in there and be safe, and not have to worry about what the visitors might be getting up to. They can relax and chill out and let you deal with it, which is as it should be:)

You'll have to take a video when they crack it, I have a few of Henry after having had various lightbulb moments and although they are terrible quality (because holding the phone and training at the same time never works:o), they make me very proud:)

ETA one more thing - remember that once they've cracked it you may find that you have to go back a step for a short time when you fit the bell to the door, as they'll have to deal with someone being at the door (rather than doing this with nobody outside as I assume is the case at the moment), and if that has a strong association for them with the action of barking and so on, they'll have to overcome that in order to do the new thing of going to their beds. So don't worry if you do find that to be the case, just take things back a step for a bit.
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Thanks, yeah I'll try and remember that once the bell starts meaning people arriving we might need to go back a few steps in order to reinforce things.
I'm hoping that if we keep pressing the bell at random times when people aren't at the door, as well as when people are at the door, that it won't cause such hysteria. Not sure if thats wishful thinking or not though :o

Will get vids once they have both cracked it :)
 
"They're dogs, they're not cars, you don't take them to a garage for a service and they come out the other side fixed, it takes thousands of correct repetitions to get the dog to make the link and if you're not doing the repetitions correctly each time then it will take longer"
(Just repeating the ballsing I got at the weekend when I threw teddy out of the pram and stamped my foot and wailed WHYYY DOESN'T HE KNOW IT YET!!! WE'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR AGGEEESSS :p)

Think it through in your head, say the word, give the cue, make the link, reward the behaviour. It's only been a few days, I still have to go back and work on sits and downs.
Repeat, repeat, repeat, link, link, link. Read up on operant and classical conditioning and learning pyramids if you're bored.

If the dog already knows the command just lay the bell over the top of that if that makes any sense so bell, command, reward, IMO anyway.
 
CaveCanem said:
"They're dogs, they're not cars, you don't take them to a garage for a service and they come out the other side fixed, it takes thousands of correct repetitions to get the dog to make the link and if you're not doing the repetitions correctly each time then it will take longer"
(Just repeating the ballsing I got at the weekend when I threw teddy out of the pram and stamped my foot and wailed WHYYY DOESN'T HE KNOW IT YET!!! WE'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR AGGEEESSS :p)

Think it through in your head, say the word, give the cue, make the link, reward the behaviour. It's only been a few days, I still have to go back and work on sits and downs.
Repeat, repeat, repeat, link, link, link. Read up on operant and classical conditioning and learning pyramids if you're bored.

If the dog already knows the command just lay the bell over the top of that if that makes any sense so bell, command, reward, IMO anyway.
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Argh, so command then bell, not bell then command?

And yeah, sorry if it came across like I was moaning they hadn't got it yet, it wasn't supposed to have come across like that... I just wanted to check I was teaching them right, so that they will eventually get it.
It wouldn't be unlike me to spend months training something completely wrong, and then ruin any chances of them ever doing it properly :o
 
CaveCanem said:
No, sorry, bell then command (see last par) and keep them very close together at first so the dog makes the link.
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Sorry yeah, I just wrote it the wrong way round. So ring bell, say command straight away after, then reward when they have done as asked.
Not, say command, then ring bell, then reward.

My head hurts :eek:
 
That's the way I would do it. You're not going to direct him to his bed before the bell goes (unless you can tell when the guests are going to arrive!)

When my dog hears the kettle going on at about 11pm, he puts himself to bed. Because he has made the link with the noise of the kettle and me coming in and putting him away.

Doing command, bell, bed, reward would make the doorbell act like a giant clicker IMO!
 
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I disagree CC, but I am sure that many people will be along shortly to explain why I am wrong so I shall bow out now.;)
 
Spudlet said:
but I am sure that many people will be along shortly to explain why I am wrong so I shall bow out now.;)
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Oh no please don't, I appreciate everyones advice, I really do!

Thank you to both you and CC, and Lexi for taking the time to give me your opinions, it all really does help. If we try one way and it doesn't work, we now know there are other options to try!
 
I don't think there's a wrong or a right, but the OP says:

"I guess the plan is eventually for them to hear the bell, put themselves in their cages calmly and then I can shut them in, and answer the door."

So to me, the way to teach that, would be, bell, bed, reward. In the same way my dog thinks = kettle - bed. I didn't put him to bed then put the kettle on, I put the kettle on then put him to bed.
I am sure someone will tell me I am wrong too :p
 
It does just take fricken ages before the lightbulb moment- but once its in it does seem to stay in the tiny brain cells. I had the shock of my life when i put a towel on the floor and dex promptly got on it sat down and stayed there whilst I went to get him some lump of carcass. He has not done "on your mat" for forever- but knows it means get on ya mat and stay there and something good will occur!
 
Dogs all learn at different speeds, Pip & Darcy are really sharp and catch on real quick but one brain cell Diesel takes forever, I still havnt worked out if he is thick or taking the p**s but he amazes me some times:D

CC like your fluffy Pip knows the minute she sees the hot water bottle its bed time, she has never been cued for this but has made the association herself.

Ladylala we have a cute video of Pip ringing a bell I have it on FB but no idea how to put it on here, for that training I broke it down into tiny steps and once each step was learned went onto the next and the linked them altogether.

Repetition is the key, boring I know and even when they have learned it you still have to practice it. Good Luck you have 7 weeks.:)
 
whisp&willow said:
Am I right in thinking Bryony is an AB... if so, then good luck, and i wish you patience! :p Betty takes a LOOOOONG time to catch-on! Big head, small brain! :p)
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Yep, you are spot on! She is honestly the dumbest creature I have *ever* met :o but she's very waggily and always happy so we forgive her :p
 
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