Training question..... quirky TB....help/thoughts needed please

[{97702}]

I have spent the Christmas period pondering what to do with my little TB - I got him in May, he had been bred & brought up on a dressage yard (for 6 years) then spent 2 years as a racing pony. I knew perfectly well that he would be a bit of a project to develop him into a nice little all rounder (not to sell, he was always to keep!) and I aspired to do some low level eventing with him.

He started off looking very skinny (he came off a racing yard, so not neglect simply fit for racing) and I fed him up so (sorry to blow my own trumpet) he looks fabulous now. He was doing really well, then he moved yards at the beginning of November and it all seemed to go downhill. Whether it is that I am riding him less (3-4 times a week rather than 5-6 times at previous yard) or he is turned out less (he used to get 12 hours minimum, now he is on part livery so probably 9am to 3.30pm?) but he has changed!

His breeder described him as 'knowing his own mind' - she ain't joking! He seems to alternate between being barging, ignorant and rude and being the sweetest little soul you could imagine! He won't load, he is tricky to put the bridle on (he hates his head being touched, not sure whether he has been twitched too much in the past or whether it was the tooth he had removed just before Christmas which was infected and must have been horribly sore) and he is incredibly difficult to get on as he won't stand next to a mounting block.

Honestly, I know that some of these things are standard ex-racer traits, I am not saying he is awful - but I am struggling to get the balance right between giving him clear parameters of expected behaviour and not bullying him as that will just create a conflict situation which won't solve anything.

Just wondering if anyone had any good ideas other than time and patience? His feed has been cut down to adlib hay/grass, plus balancer (Top Spec cool), NAF Magic and biotin twice a day with a handful of chaff. I have just finished my December running challenge so will be aiming to ride/lunge 5 days a week from now on....

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would take him off the TopSpec, there are lots of posts on here about its detrimental effects.

 

[fatponee]

As no one else has replied yet I thought I'd comment

I think you've answered your own questions tbh. You're 6 months down the line with him and he has a full tummy and is looking great. You've recently moved yards which is bound to be a bit unsettling for him, plus as you say, his tooth must have been very sore for him. Also you've cut down working him very slightly.

I can only give you the benefit of my experience with my own TB, but the 'alternating between being ignorant and the sweetest little soul' could have been written about my horse too! I've learnt to not get too frustrated when things are going belly up as I know it will pass. Normal horse rules don't seem to apply to TBs.

The cut back in feed seems like a good idea and as you're upping his workload again from tomorrow, I'm sure things will be on the up again with him soon. Best of luck

 

[{97702}]

I would take him off the TopSpec, there are lots of posts on here about its detrimental effects.

Hmmmm I may be forced to try this, so many people have said this! Thanks Pearlscarolsinger (very hard to spell when intoxicated) - I am a bit at my wits end, I want life to be easy and enjoyable for him and me but at the moment it isn't, he is such a sweetheart in so many ways that I find it very strange. He was on it for about 4 months before he moved yards so I have been trying to not blame it.... anything is worth a go however!

 

[{97702}]

As no one else has replied yet I thought I'd comment

I think you've answered your own questions tbh. You're 6 months down the line with him and he has a full tummy and is looking great. You've recently moved yards which is bound to be a bit unsettling for him, plus as you say, his tooth must have been very sore for him. Also you've cut down working him very slightly.

I can only give you the benefit of my experience with my own TB, but the 'alternating between being ignorant and the sweetest little soul' could have been written about my horse too! I've learnt to not get too frustrated when things are going belly up as I know it will pass. Normal horse rules don't seem to apply to TBs.

The cut back in feed seems like a good idea and as you're upping his workload again from tomorrow, I'm sure things will be on the up again with him soon. Best of luck

Massive thanks fatponee, I think really I needed to know that I wasn't alone out there I love him to bits but god he is frustrating sometimes.....good job he is the most gorgeous pony ever (sorry, I know, blame NYE!) xx

 

[fatponee]

No, you are most definitely not alone. I think it's an ex-racer thang.

 

[SusieT]

presume he's had his back checked?

 

[{97702}]

presume he's had his back checked?

Being checked 7th Jan - that was something that has been bothering me too, it will be interesting to see what physio says

 

[noname]

In all honesty I think you have go

 

[noname]

Whoops, Iphone troubles. Sounds like a nice little horse and you really don't need to be at your wits end with him. Just a few tweaks to feeding and training and he will be a lot of fun!

In all honesty I think you havent given him the best chance by feeding him up an not working him in the best way. It's generally the first issue to tackle in problem horses. Ideally with a horse off the track they need a few months to a year turned away (depending on whether they are hot or injured). Then brought into work but still with plenty of turnout. The key to putting the weight on is grass and good quality ad lib hay. Very little hard feed otherwise they get silly race around and get fitter and lose the weight.

So my advice to you is stick with, good quality hay, only feed the chaff and a few nuts and regular ridden work. 5 days a week but not necessarily long sessions. 20-30 mins will take the edge off. Lots of variation, lunging, hacking, jumping and max 2 sessions a week of flat work schooling in an arena. Sounds like you need a decent trainer around for the flat work part. Keep the flat work mixed up with pole work. Scatter the poles around so you are doing bending exercises around them such as serpentines and 5 meter loops with the poles. It keeps the interested and thinking whilst getting the muscles working. If they have lots to think about they improve more quickly. Once you feel safe and under control I would take him to different places to ride around to keep the variety up. A friend on the ground is useful just in case you need a lunge line for 10 mins whilst he settles!

Tacking up issues are common with TBs, I had one that you were ducking and diving to get the saddle on it they do settle down. Be quick, no messing around, be firm and then big rewards with treats and pats when you have the tack on. It does improve with time but it is a slow process.

Have fun with him.

Also might be a bit ulcery if he's been in racing and a change in routine. Could get him scoped if you are worried. See what the back person finds and if it's not significant could be with looking into.

 

[Charlie007]

I got my tb 6 months ago and he was an arse to get on!!! Needed to sort it as I'm on my own so no one to hold. He now stands like a rock and doesn't move till asked. All I did was take him in school in headcollar. No stress. Let led him to mounting block, climbed up, he moved so round we went again. Then when he stood for a second generation git a scratch on withers and I lent over with a sweet in my right hand to feed him on the off side. Once he had stood for a very short time I walked him round again and repeated. It took probably 3 different sessions of ten mins each!!

When putting bridle on could you undo it so that you put headpiece on first then feed bit through his mouth gently, if you know what I mean??!!

I feed my tb TopSpec and he is fine on. It, but I have heard it doesn't suit all horses.

 

[{97702}]

Interesting ideas thanks all It is difficult to describe but the barging/being ignorant thing is the problem that bothers me most, the other problems are pretty standard and can be overcome (I've been doing much the same as you with the mounting block problem Charlie007, I really like the idea of leaning over and feeding from the off side!)

For example yesterday he was clipped by the YO - he hates syringes being put in his mouth so he ran round the stable for 10 minutes and refused to take the sedative, until she called her rugby-player husband to help. Whereupon her husband held Frodo and their friend (a farrier) put the sedative in his mouth, and the little *** didn't move a muscle! He knows how much he can throw his weight around (literally) and acts accordingly, quite brattish behaviour really but he is going to be 9 at the end of March

 

[{97702}]

In all honesty I think you havent given him the best chance by feeding him up an not working him in the best way. It's generally the first issue to tackle in problem horses. Ideally with a horse off the track they need a few months to a year turned away (depending on whether they are hot or injured). Then brought into work but still with plenty of turnout. The key to putting the weight on is grass and good quality ad lib hay. Very little hard feed otherwise they get silly race around and get fitter and lose the weight.

Just to clarify, he hasn't raced since autumn 2014 (he did pony racing) - he was turned away for the winter of 2014, brought back into work in spring 2015 (hacking/schooling/jumping) and I got him in May 2015. He had plenty of turnout and exercise during the time he was being brought into decent condition - usually 24 hour a day turnout and ridden 5 or 6 times a week - he has only had the reduction in exercise/turnout since 1st November when he moved to a part-livery yard, hence the reduction in feed to mirror that reduction in exercise

 

[Luci07]

I would echo the feed suggestions the others have and would put some real time into groundwork. It is no fun whatsoever when a horse learns it can throw its weight around and it's dangerous. Google and watch Jason Webb videos. Barging, not letting you get on, being a pain with the the bridle are all indications he is pushing your boundaries. Sounds like you have mounting under control but another idea is to move your mounting block so your horse can walk around it. We did that with babies and then progressed to standing. A friend has a super lightweight cob, but his manners on the floor are apalling. She has corrected him with the exception of leading as he is heavily food orientated. He is now led everywhere in a chiffney as will literally walk over you to get to his food/ hay/ grass. Under saddle, he is pretty perfect.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Topspec calmer hyped my mare up so I would definitely take him off it

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I had a TBx mare whose behaviour was fine, just a typical 4 yr old when I got her. Over time her behaviour deteriorated gradually until she was virtually unhandleable *at times*. Eventually the cause was found to be her feed and her behaviour depended on the ti9me f day and when she was last given hard food (long before the days of TopSpec), so now I tend to look at food first whenever I have an issue. If you think he might have ulcers, try giving him Aloe Vera juice with his chaff. It makes a huge difference to my current riding horse's temperament, even though she doesn't have a diagnosis.

Good luck with him, I'm sure you will get there!

 

[{97702}]

No idea about the ulcers to be honest, but I will try the Aloe Vera juice - thanks for the idea

 

[Leo Walker]

Sounds like my cob! We were in a bad place, I was so ill and he knew and was taking advantage and things just got worse and worse. He kept pushing, I wasnt well enough to deal with it, so he'd push some more. I got a really good instructor involved and the improvement was dramatic in a week. Turns out that despite his saddle being fitted twice, by 2 different people, it was an inch too long and flocked crockedly, so he probably did have just cause to be annoyed. But it wasnt just that!

My instructor intially came and did half ground work, half ridden with him for 3 sessions then we didnt need the groundwork anymore. Is there anyone locally who does similar?

 

[nikkimariet]

He sounds cute, just wound up from his fairly recent departure from racing

I would get rid of the top spec ASAP! Mine is on a fibre and oil based diet (winergy condition, linseed and oats as he meds no extra energy!).

Could you try some ground work with him? Looking into the J Webb stuff is a great idea!

Mine is great at tacking up and getting on etc, but he's seriously fizzy in every other way!!!!

Try some lunging in an elastic bungee to start developing the muscles he needs for reschooling and yes, get his back looked at again. May have a sore spot? Have even tweaked something in field?

Mine has had a total turn around after treating for ulcers. He did a course of omeprazole and will now be kept on Protexin for the long term. He's a changed dude, no longer on any calmers and is easier to work and handle.

 

[{97702}]

I had to do a quick report - since I posted being all despondent he has been loads better, as good as anything to put the bridle on and standing still for me to get on (from the ground, so far from ideal but still progress). So rather less doom and gloom than I was a few days ago It seems that regular exercise is the key for him....

 

[Pearlsasinger]

No idea about the ulcers to be honest, but I will try the Aloe Vera juice - thanks for the idea

It is a tip I picked up on here!

Just proved its worth again - I had cut down the amount she was getting (3 capfuls) because she has been leaving some of her hay overnight, so I thought she was over the problem. After 3 days on just one capful, she was arguing with her neighbours, showing every-one her teeth and pulling faces. Back up to 3 capfuls yesterday and she is her usual affectionate self, being pleasant with her neighbours.


ETA - glad to hear that you have solved the problem!

 

[Kat]

Where do you get your aloe Vera from pearlsacarolsinger? I would be interested in trying it for my mare.