Training that seemed like a good idea, but then caused issues later down the line!

Chloe_GHE

Chloe_GHE

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I'm reading Mary Kings autobiography atm, and in it she mentions that to rehab one of her horses from an injury she took him swimming (think it was king boris but not 100%) anyhoo he got better, but she mentions that she thinks that the swimming caused him to start crawling over fences into water.

Maybe having been put in water so deep he had to swim he never trusted the depth again, and so gave water jumps a good look before cautiously jumping into them.

This got me thinking....training and competing is such a learning curve (esp for the am' rider) and we do things with the best intentions/logic in mind, but have your plans like Mary's ever backfired later down the line?... or impacted in a way you really didn't expect?...

BTW if you get a chance to buy this book, snap it up, it's fab :)
 
Sounds like a good read, might purchase it myself :cool: I havent read a good book in years!! Does she only have one auto-b out? ...My last Tb used to nap when I hacked him alone. He would stop, mini rear and spin but it was manageable as long as he couldnt turn. Anyway we decided to teach him a rein back for DR purposes and the crafty bugger then started using it for napping on hacks :o Once he learnt he couldnt get away with spinning around he reverted to reversing back down the road!! So yes imo that backfired and was harder to get him forwards out of it on hacks as when i applied leg he reversed even faster :rolleyes:
 
yep :)

i taught mine to jump and now he won't stay in the field alone
so far he's jumped 3 electric wire fences (all in a line in the snow)
numerous post and rail fences , a hedge , a wall ,and most shocking - a metal five bar gate out of a foot of mud onto a main road :eek:
at least he's careful :rolleyes:


i got a signed copy at burghley last year really enjoyed it :D
 
that's really interesting about the swimming, i've heard that before actually, can't remember where.
umm, i was always taught to use outside leg actively for canter strike off, and from bitter experience i now know that this is absolutely wrong, and totally screws up your trot half-pass later... you swing your leg back and they expect it to be a canter aid, and then have a strop when you correct and say 'no, wrong, stay in trot'... had quite a few pesade/courbette moments in Adv tests with my lovely but opinionated grey over that one... she did NOT like to be corrected! as far as she was concerned, she was right and i was wrong. ;) ;)
other than that, the only one i can think of was teaching flying changes and then getting lovely unasked-for ones during counter canter, i got very good at sitting absolutely still and keeping oodles of true bend and praying very hard!
 
Taught mine to push gates with her nose on command, only issue now is when she's impatient and a gate opens towards you she will persistently keep shutting it with her nose!
 
I took mine hunting over ditches and he was amazing seriously careful - exactly what you want when jumping main rhynes filled with water. Until he would go xc and not jump into water. It took a while and he got there in the end but I stopped hunting with our hunt. I did have this discussion with a friend who rode at 2* level who is convinced its just my horse but I have not take the risk on current horse who is a bit precious about water anyway.
 
Like Ella19 I trained my horse to open gates by pushing his nose, worked wonders when we went hunting. However, he thinks he can open our yard gates, which are security gates and a code needs to be punched into the key pad and he gets very frustrated and annoyed with himself. He has also been taught, not by me though that upon the word 'Drop' he drops into a contact, not matter what the back end is doing. Bless!
 
My lovely comedic chestnut mare could be a right opinionated moo at times:p. She decided that if something was scary on a hack, she'd just plant herself and refuse to move. No matter how much (ahem) persuasion I used, my 8 stone was rather ineffective on her! So I tried the technique of unbalancing her by asking her to turn her head sideways until her feet moved, at which point in theory I'd unlocked her and could get forward movement again.

However, once I'd taught her this, her new trick of dealing with scary things became a sharp spin left - basically exactly as I'd taught her :o.

Luckily she was a kind and fun horse, who didn't take too much advantage of my stupidity.
 
interesting....i think over the years i've done lots of things that have backfired on me later- and worryingly a lot of these things are things that i've been told to do in lessons with trainers- have then gone home and tried to replicate and caused all sorts of issues.... got told not so long ago in a DR lesson that i "had" to make my horse bend and that if he wouldn't do it i should just cross my hands over his neck to make him do it- i often do this unintentionally as my hands are bad and don't do as they are told and so its something i've been trying to stop doing- this one lesson confused me and my horse no end and he actually started rearing as a result - i was so annoyed with myself when i got home and had a proper think.... and it caused quite serious problems for a long while.... :(
 
[QUOTE=kerilli;
umm, i was always taught to use outside leg actively for canter strike off, and from bitter experience i now know that this is absolutely wrong, and totally screws up your trot half-pass later... you swing your leg back and they expect it to be a canter aid, and then have a strop when you correct and say 'no, wrong, stay in trot'... had quite a few pesade/courbette moments in Adv tests with my lovely but opinionated grey over that one... she did NOT like to be corrected! as far as she was concerned, she was right and i was wrong. ;) ;)
Can I ask how you ask for canter as this method is being taught currently to out TB? I don't think she will ever be doing trot half pass, but I like to be optimistic!
 
diggerbez wow hope you never went back to that trainer! I am totally confused about how crossing your hands over his neck would help create the correct bend too!

I cant think of many tbh but my current mare is so lovely that if I do something wrong & recognise it/get told off for it in a lesson she just forgives me and carries on as if it never happened :). If when learning a new trick an aid is contradictory she kind of does a miniscule hesistant ear flick "are you sure" and then does as asked - Im not sure shes actually a mare tbh!! :D
With my gelding years ago I was told to crack on jumping (not high but just lots of practice on a soft surface) by a trainer to help us work on balance and lines. The guidance was not specific enough and as a very young teenager I didnt have a blinking clue. I dont think I did anything wrong persay but my lack of confidence was enough to knock his having just come off a cob cross! Said boy soon decided he didnt like SJ and became very very good at dirty stops with no warning that I stood no chance of sitting. As soon as the problem emerged (was having continual lessons) I gave him to my instructor (the vendor) to get him back on track as I wasnt experienced enough, and the opposite happened and he promptly dumped her (the confident one who had obviously previously given him his confidence) and returned to me worse. Years on and he will now pop round a little course at home with me and enjoy doing a handful of up to 1mish fences :) however he will still merrily dump all but the most confident and careful riders (and at last check still wouldnt jump with instructor). He seems genuinely scared and even now when he believes in your confidence he sometimes slams the anchors on which makes it even harder to be confident- talk about a vicious circle. I dont really show jump him any more as he doesnt really enjoy it and he is a beautiful DR horse. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and he should never have been sold to me BUT he taught me a huge amount which allowed me to train my mare from the basic walk trot and just about canter to the level she is now though doubtless a lot of that is down to her fab personality :) so no real regrets!

Im sure at some point however some bit of training will come back to bite me in the bum with another horse!
 
becca1305 said:
diggerbez wow hope you never went back to that trainer! I am totally confused about how crossing your hands over his neck would help create the correct bend too!
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no i didn't! i didn't think it could be right and when i asked my chiro who happened to be up a few days later she was gobsmacked- my horse struggles with his neck getting locked and she has to manipulate it to get it to loosen and she was able to show me clearly the difference in where his bend would be from crossing hand or from using it properly.... have since been having some lessons with an old friend of mine and horse is going very nicely so think problem is on way to being sorted :D
 
Kerilli can I ask how you ask for canter?

My girl used get a bit stuck with her canter transition, as a result I put my outside leg back to get it, but I have just started teaching her half-pass, and although we haven't hit this problem yet, now I wonder if we will?

I made the mistake of teaching my girl changes......now 5m loops or counter canter dont happen!!
 
NicoleS_007 said:
Sounds like a good read, might purchase it myself :cool: I havent read a good book in years!! Does she only have one auto-b out? ...My last Tb used to nap when I hacked him alone. He would stop, mini rear and spin but it was manageable as long as he couldnt turn. Anyway we decided to teach him a rein back for DR purposes and the crafty bugger then started using it for napping on hacks :o Once he learnt he couldnt get away with spinning around he reverted to reversing back down the road!! So yes imo that backfired and was harder to get him forwards out of it on hacks as when i applied leg he reversed even faster :rolleyes:
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Reguarding the reversing backwards my TB never use to go out on a hack on own (previous experience) so to start of with I got him out of yard by making him go backwards. He wouldn't go forwards but happily go backwards as could see the other horses. Has worked a treat no walks forwards on a long rein quite happily :D
 
OT-but...................i,and all pupils use outside leg for canter and for flying changes and do not have a prob with trot HP!
there is a huge difference is positioning and weight between the two and by the time the horse is being asked for trot HP the canter transitions should be SO etsablished that there should be no confusions.

asking for canter from inside leg causes more confusion than can be imagined when asking for changes, singles=ok, but tempis are a nightmare.
 
I taught my slightly mad previous TB (also ex-racer) flying changes. What a mistake. With hindsight, he wasn't ready for them but my instructor said to give it a go..so we did.

He then did flying changes at every opportunity (circles, long sides, if he lost balance in canter etc etc) and it was very inconvenient :p
 
The flip side is if you leave them too late, then horses seem to find them more difficult to 'get'.

I think the problems probably stem from the fact that, with a few exceptions, we don't seem to teach seatbone positioning and rider lateral movement in this country - it just isn't something that most BHS trainers I've used have even mentioned. Once someone did explain it to me (and believe me I felt like the most malcoordinated person in the world when trying to learn it after years of bog-standard BHS stuff), it made perfect sense in terms of how you can have your leg in the same position but actually influence the horse completely differently. Hence PS has no issues with canter strike off and trot halfpass. And hence having taught my horse changes (which are not yet established but are coming along nicely), he still would not dream of changing in counter canter. I wish I'd taught him changes earlier though, he struggles a bit with them.
 
We have always taught everything flying changes early on and never have an issue with counter canter etc. Actually with more advanced horses we actively work on counter canter to fences etc....if the balance is there then it is only of benefit for jump offs!


I used to ride a horse that was completely voice trained....and loved the owners daughter. she was only tiny but used to do bits and pieces on him. It caused havoc when I was schooling him round a 1.30 track and she would pipe up "whoah Sparks" when I was on approach to a fence. He would stop dead and wouldn't budge again till she said "go sparks" and he could stop 3-4 strides out and pop whatever was in front of him
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
OT-but...................i,and all pupils use outside leg for canter and for flying changes and do not have a prob with trot HP!
there is a huge difference is positioning and weight between the two and by the time the horse is being asked for trot HP the canter transitions should be SO etsablished that there should be no confusions.

asking for canter from inside leg causes more confusion than can be imagined when asking for changes, singles=ok, but tempis are a nightmare.
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I totally take on board what SC says, seatbone positioning is important definitely... but when teaching a horse the canter aid i tend to use legs more than seatbone aids to begin with.
what i meant was that, according to my trainer anyway, the outside leg swings back to indicate that you want canter but doesn't get used actively (doesn't push/prod, just slides across the horse's side) and the inside leg gives a little bit of a squeeze inwards.
then the outside leg pushing can be saved for sideways stuff such as half pass.
when i watch the top combos doing flying changes and tempi changes it doesn't look as though they are pushing inwards with their (swinging outside) legs, fwiw. the slide of the leg is the aid (and the seatbones presumably).

PS, are you doing it totally differently then?
 
kerilli said:
I totally take on board what SC says, seatbone positioning is important definitely... but when teaching a horse the canter aid i tend to use legs more than seatbone aids to begin with.
what i meant was that, according to my trainer anyway, the outside leg swings back to indicate that you want canter but doesn't get used actively (doesn't push/prod, just slides across the horse's side) and the inside leg gives a little bit of a squeeze inwards.
then the outside leg pushing can be saved for sideways stuff such as half pass.
when i watch the top combos doing flying changes and tempi changes it doesn't look as though they are pushing inwards with their (swinging outside) legs, fwiw. the slide of the leg is the aid (and the seatbones presumably).

PS, are you doing it totally differently then?
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This is what I have always been taught as well. :)

interesting point about swimming vs jumping into water. must say not something I had considered before but totally makes sense.
 
Because Sienna is a fat little cob with short legs, we had to make up every sencond XC. I taught her to hit the ground and go like stink so we didn't waste time.

HUGE mistake when we have to SJ, especially related distances, which would mostly be spent hauling her back & pointing at the correct fence.
 
amage said:
We have always taught everything flying changes early on and never have an issue with counter canter etc. Actually with more advanced horses we actively work on counter canter to fences etc....if the balance is there then it is only of benefit for jump offs!


I used to ride a horse that was completely voice trained....and loved the owners daughter. she was only tiny but used to do bits and pieces on him. It caused havoc when I was schooling him round a 1.30 track and she would pipe up "whoah Sparks" when I was on approach to a fence. He would stop dead and wouldn't budge again till she said "go sparks" and he could stop 3-4 strides out and pop whatever was in front of him
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Lol that's so cute!! I love using voice - mine have always been tuned into it.
 
i dont use inside leg for canter at all, outside leg back, inside seatbone enagaged a little. wouldnt say outside leg is pushing in, but is definately *the aid*.
for flying changes it is the change in seatbone and swing of new outside leg back then asks for the changes-when you ride tempis your seatbones and outside leg settle in to the swing/rhythm and that is IMO the easiest and neatest way to get them. trying to get your legs to do different things (outside leg back but passive, inside leg on) AND changing your seatbones gives you too much to think about in 2 and 1 time tempis.

once very established the changes come from the change in seatbones, but the outside leg still moves back, as a back up indicator.
 
I had a little palomino mare that I took swimming.
Only backfired in so much as she discovered she loved water and being in it , lead to some very fast and scarey jumps into water XC and then a fair bit of kicking to get her out again! She was great at leading others into water though.
Never did dare take her to the beach I think she'd have dived in and headed for Norway.
 
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Only when I wasn't clear between allowing a horse to stretch out and a horse to totally chill out for free walk. It meant that I had a horse who would completely switch off when in free walk. I now use the stretch as a relax in between training but not a "switch off". My young horse picks up things really really quickly so have to be thinking one step ahead as well.
 
We teach horses to stop from any pace at a 'whoa' when they are two year olds in the round pen - it's a safety thing as well as good training, especially if they are going on to do reining.
The only thing is that you have to remember not to say it if you don't mean it or even any word that sounds like it - I have a lovely 3yo that will absolutely plant himself in the sand if you say it, even from a speedy baby canter and it's a bit disconcerting ! :D
 
My horse used to be very sticky in the start box before XC. Hed would literally crawl out of them and then we wouldn't have any impulsion in time for the first fence. At home in a big field I taught him a voice command that would get him fizzed up, so when in the start box I would make this noise, he would start prancing and getting excited and then he would fly out.

Downside to this was that my friends caught on to this little trick and would stand by the arena fence making this cue whilst I was having a dressage lesson....which would result in my horse becomming very excited and broncing down the longside :rolleyes:
 
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