Training the pup!?

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Little Max has mastered a recall (garden and house - still waiting to go out, vaccinations!)


He can sit with a handsignal ( :D), liedown, on command (hand signal is coming), he's learning to "stand" as of tonight, as well as "paw"

He can also wait....and I can leave him for 5 steps, call him and do a baby recall, sit and finish (hand guiding though!! hes not that good!) but he sits in front of me and waits until i say finish and guide him with food,...


Hes 3 months old.... not a boast but im really pleased with how much he's learnt so far. Im wanting to his first pre-beginners obedience in October, and a little more over winter until next June/july when we will be starting agility traning...but I want to know how to introduce (slowly)! heelwork??

he's been trained entirely through play and HAM! lol! About 5-10 mins a day (twice - maximum)!

Any tips? and anything i can work towards getting his training stronger? He's not afraid of the dumbell as i slid it accross the floor tonight and he brought it back (he brings all his toys back)


any tips for even better training the heelwork/recall and general?

thanks
 
honestly? Training tips? 12 weeks is very young ... let your puppy be a puppy. Bond with your puppy and get to know its personality, this will ensure you know its boundaries, and it will know your limitations as a trainer!

Too much too young can lead to a difficult adulthood
 
see all the gundog people ive met/spoke too have them trained young - because of the instinct....

He's been out - socialising, playing (i dont think 5-10 mins twice a day is much though!), hes met kids, bikes, scooters, dogs (in my arms for now) not phased in the slightest :)

I am doing it slowly but hes picking it up really quickily, so if im training him i want to make sure heelwork and "close" is done right, as even for the field i need to make sure hes listening :)
 
What sa said if they can recall, sit and maybe an occasional down at 12 weeks that's plenty for me. Heelwork I wouldn't even attempt at that age, you just want them out exploring on a lead. Heelwork comes later. Don't overface him with too much too soon, just polish the basics occasionally and enjoy him being a baby it goes too fast anyway! Also when training wait/stay never recall from it, you end up with a dog that won't sit still as it begins to expect the recall, some creep or shuffle. Always put in a wait walk away and then return to the dog and praise. That's not something I would be doing until 6 months ish though tbh. Piccies please :D
 
Agree with the others, don't overface him. Dumbells and balls and stuff can wait until his adult teeth are in.
Also agree with Vizzie, I did so much focus heeling and recalls too soon, I now don't have a long down at 18 months because the dog has been taught not to remain too far from me and he flops and commando-crawls back to me.

My young one was owned by a judge/trainer/world championships competitor from six weeks old, I got him at four months and all he had was a recall.
 
thanks vizlak :)

I use the wait (and recall) and stay means -"park it dont shift...." ( but stays are WAY down the line....!)





3 ish weeks agoo


hes grown LOADS since then :)

DSC_1807.jpg




thanks

the sit was very natural as our other dog always sits in front of us - she did that at 6 weeks odl when i got her so i just reenforced naturally what she was doing - so did max (hes watched our other dog im sure!)
 
Viz - Totally agree. Not meaning to sound negative at all, ive just seen it all too often! If your puppy will sit, recall, stay for 5 paces etc at 12 weeks of age - this is not trained. 'Training' is a series of repetitive actions over a period of time. The 'training' so far will not 'stay' with your dog. Polish off the basics, as Vizzy said, and expand from there from 6 months onwards. As long as your puppy is aware you are the Dominant 'being' of your household that is ALL that matters. Training, so to speak, ie the paw, wait etc will come later.

If the dog has the understanding he is to answer to you, as you are the dominant one' you can ask your dog to do almost anything.

If you introduce too much too soon, you will, as a trainer, confuse the dog, confuse yourself, you will shout through frustration, you will not know where to start again (back to basics so to speak) and you will end with a 'Domiant dog' who, effectively, rules you!
 
thanks :)

I should add im not a novice as such - ive had dogs all my life - ive trained 2 collies before him... and both did agility well (one obedience and she was an evil cow.. lol)

My last dog (retired age 3!) got 10th out of 130 dogs at her first show :) so must have done something right!

Hoping little Max has the same success :)
 
Collies in my humble opinion are an entirely different kettle of fish! I don't even think its possible to overface a collie, I've never trained one myself though.
 
Thanks - i appreciate the advice - i will happily lay off the heelwork idea and focus on the very important sit/down and recall...!

Currently whistle training him as i had advice from a friend who has gundogs.... but instead of 3 whistles to recall i use one, which seems to work - he gets so excited when i recall - as it means............ham. :D lol.

Viz - true.

My other dog is a collie x spaniel (accident...but best dog ive ever owned). shes bloody crackers. Could do anything with her, never tires (but make her now as she gets wrist sprains if she overdoes and has mild hip displasia)!, not that to look at her you could tell..! you could take her on a few mile hike when she was younger, and then ask her if she wanted to go again after....then train her etc - she wouldnt tire..

same with our other collies...literally try their hearts out for us :)

We wanted another collie, but given the massive drive decided it wasnt fair on them, so cocker it was instead (and smaller)! :)
 
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Whistle training at 3 months? Really? Wow, I wouldn't even get a whistle out until 9 months ish when everything else was spot on to voice/hand. Clearly folks do different nowadays!
 
i dont...! i use one whistle blow for recall and voice for sit.

hes not being field/working trained so it isnt important to do it right, as such....

just want/need a good re-call - the breeder said get onto him from day 1 in regards to attention...he also worked his dogs (beating) and my pups sire did working trials.
 
Lovely dog, very kind face!

I have to disagree with some of the other posters, I have never come across a dog that was ruined by too much training as a youngster provided the training was dog-friendly (i.e. positive reward methods, calmly applied, no shouting, hitting, etc which clearly is not the case here!!!!). I have an old format video of J doing sits and downs to hand commands aged 7 weeks, the week I got him from the breeders! If anything the training helped him channel his exuberant personality!

For me it's really useful to introduce nose and foot targeting (as two separate exercises so at different times) and you can then use this for heelwork and it will also come in extremely handy for agility. Nose targeting is easier so worth starting with that. Place your open palm close to the puppy's face, with any luck he will turn around to touch it, reward. Repeat until he gets the idea that touching your hand is rewarded. Then gradually make more demanding by moving your hand and having him touch for longer periods.

For heel work: if heights work place your hand by your side and the dog targets. If heights don't work teach the dog to target a piece of paper, then attach the piece of paper to your trousers where you want the dog's head for heelwork. Gradually make the piece of paper smaller.

For finish: get the dog to target your hand around your body and into the final sit.

For agility: foot targeting is brilliant for making sure the dog touches the red zones.
 
Olly is a cocker and he was doing all those things at 3 months too, I never did too much with him just 2 min play/train sessions daily he just got it really quickly. He's 6 months now and does sit, down, paws high 5 roll over and has a really good sit, stay, retrieve, and a decent recall but that still needs work out of the house!!! Now he is a bit older we are starting to ask more of him with heel work and improving the recall as it tends to go out of the window when he sees another dog! He goes to gundog training classes, we use whistles, and I'm hoping he will work, well bf hopes, not sp much me! I don't feel like its been too much, hes loved it and just found the basics so easy.
 
Freya is now 15 weeks old, she will sit, down and wait when her food is put on the floor, but that is all she has done and it is only done once or maximum twice a day. I am going to start doing a bit of heelwork i.e. food following in the next week or so. Although we do lots of recall when she is running loose in the field I like to try and get a reasonable stay before I do a recall from the sit position, and use wait for recall and stay for stay.:p
 
Scranny_Ann said:
.......

Too much too young can lead to a difficult adulthood
Click to expand...

Just this, and too much discipline and too soon will result in rebellion later. It's so easy for us to think that we're so clever, with young puppies, but as S_A says, there is all so often a price to pay, a little further down the road. Puppies need to be discipline free, initially.

Regarding the sit and stay, or the long down; I never recall a young dog. I always go back and collect the dog. It's the basics of dog training. The dog that's creeping forwards needs replacing, and again, never calling up to you.

With a dog which is collected, it will lay there awaiting your return. With a dog which is called up, it will be constantly waiting for the call, and it will all so often, either misunderstand body language, or creep forward on its belly.

The recall when a dog is away from you and either on exercise or working is a different matter, and is a totally different discipline to and shouldn't be linked to, the "Sit and Stay", in my opinion.

Alec.
 
At the moment it's all a game to him, and it's great that you are playing as it is all part of bonding so well done:). But there will still be lots to do when he's older, and that's when you can start doing the more formal obedience stuff! Little, fun, play retrieves with a soft toy are fine, don't try and formalise it too soon as you can squash the natural enthusiasm out of them. Also, never reprimand your pup for picking things up, even if it's your best bra, instead encourage him to bring it to you and swap it for something authorised.:)

Also (and I need to sit for this) I agree with Alec on training *staggers about clutching head* - we also don't teach recall from a stay at first at least - instead we would have a helper hold the pup as the owner goes away, because ultimately we want the sit to be solid until we release the dog, we don't want the dog to anticipate a recall. We do recall older, more established dogs from a sit, but not every time - we want them to watch us rather than anticipate.

The most important thing is that both you and your pupster enjoy training and have a positive experience:) I would strongly recommend a good puppy class for socialisation, and we always advise people to continue some form of class (not with us if they don't want to!) up to the age of two, as dogs go through their teenage years and so many changes in that time!

We introduce a whistle recall fairly early, but the 'stop' comes a little later on in our training.:)
 
I start my Springers as soon as seven weeks .everything is done as a game. The recall I will combine the voice and the whistle and plenty of praise, slowly removing the voice leaving just the whistle. This is done over a number of months.

Sitting is done at meal times followed by the stay and leave. Again this is done as part of every day things and fun.

All the above would be done and perfected by six months.

Mine are not put onto the lead very often , they are taught to walk to heel through encouragement and the want to please me.

As they are all gun dogs the leave command is important and this is taught in the woods to start with and then for closer control I take them into a large rabbit pen.

Everything is done with fun games and praise. If the pup does it without realising like the sit or recall ,they are praised a lot it all then becomes a habit.
 
Thanks all :)

yes entirely positive training! If ANY of my dogs get somehintg "wrong", its because i havent done it right... or asked the wrong way/question, so they get a happy "oh dear"!! and try again :)

thanks for the target trick training - my other dog does this but i did it later on as I did agility with her (and only did the very very basics until later on - shes now 5.5) :)


thats my other dogs favourite trick - she also shuts doors behind her and for us when were far too lazy to shut the door lol!! best trick i ever taught her lol!!! :D

shame shes not obedience minded...i will take her with Max in october just because i may as well - but shes not an obedience dog bless her lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtwhkDDmjhA&list=UUb7ann7anjQyZwCSba-Ot7g&index=7&feature=plcp
 
I had two different commands for sit/stay and for sit/wait. Sit/stay required the dog to remain immobile until I returned and released, sit/wait meant wait until you are recalled to heel or asked to change to down/stay, etc. All that took quite a while though!
 
We don't actually use stay or wait at all - we teach the dogs that 'sit' means 'you sit until further notice'.:)

Not right or wrong, just different!
 
So long as training is only done in 5 minute bursts and not too often, there is no reason not to do it, good habits ingrained early do not lead to a sudden mad dog later in life... What you need to make sure is that you are always positively encouraging so that he learns a habit of always trying to figure outu what you want rather than trying to avoid your displeasure. Does he walk on the lead? If not that should be your next step. If he does, use your ham/treat to get him in the right area as you take a few steps. you might find puppy classes help you with this (and certainly would be good for his socialistion even if you think his obedience is already good)
 
susiet - yes he does :)

hes been out to a family members house and had to wear a lead in the garden (gaps) he got used to it quickily - and since then used it a few times round the house etc

in regards to the sit/wait/stay thing.... to us....sit wait means, anticipate a recall. (mabey wrong but my other dog works corretcly with this) sit stay means "sit do not move until i get back"

:)
 
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